Donald Trump and Spiral Dynamics

[Anderz]

Trump will make a win-win deal with Iran, not start a war. Remember when Alex Jones went bonkers and blamed Trump for having betrayed him by starting a war in Syria. I said that Trump would PREVENT a war in Syria, and that was exactly what happened. Trump is preempting the military industrial complex's attempts of starting new conflicts to fuel their war machine. At the same time Trump needs the military to remain big or else the U.S. economy would collapse.

Trump acting confrontational is just that, an act.

[Leo Gura]

From Kim's POV it does not even matter if Trump is truthworthy. Even if Trump is the nicest guy in the world, in 2-6 years he will be out of office and Kim will have to deal with a new US administration which will want to overthrown him if an overthrow is easily possible without killing millions of people. So Kim's incentive is to be able to kill millions of people in order to survive.

The North Koreans are not stupid. They are very selfish. So the last thing they'll do is undermine their own survival odds.

Kim handing over his nukes is like Trump handing over his taxes. Lol. Trump says he doesn't mind handing over his taxes, but he never will. It's just a ploy.

[Emerald]

16 hours ago, Anderz said:

"MSNBC host Joe Scarboroughsaid Trump is essentially more like a "centrist Democrat" on social issues.[53]" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_positions_of_Donald_Trump#As_described_by_others

A centrist Democrat, I don't think one can get more green than that. More seriously though the Democrats are generally more green than the Republicans.

A Centrist Democrat is basically center right. Centrist Democrats are still Blue/Orange even if they pay lip service to social issues (which Trump definitely doesn't do because he's not supportive of lgbt issues, women's issues, poc issues, or any of that..., so he's nowhere near even a Centrist Democrat by those standards).

Trump does, however, do a lot of fake populism that makes him seem like he's gunning for the average white American working/middle class person. But he sees through on none of it. His interests are corporate interests and the interests of the billionaire class because he belongs to both of these groups. But he said all kinds of blatant lies like "Coal's coming back" and "I'm not going to outsource jobs" to get poor whites in the Rustbelt and elsewhere to vote for him. 

As far as mainstream American politics goes, you only really start tiptoeing into Green territory with Justice Democrats who are actively supporting progressive platforms for the good of the people and not just big corporate interests who can afford to buy the government. These are platforms like Medicare for All, a living wage, The Green New Deal, free college, getting money out of politics, and GENUINELY addressing income inequality.

Most Democrats and ALL Republicans basically work for big corporations who line their pockets so that they can do the shady business deals they want. So, the standard politician on both sides either play to the social issues that left-leaning or right-leaning folks care about. So, a Democrat past 2010 would pay lip service to marriage equality, once they knew enough people in the base were on board. And a Republican would pay lip-service to pro-life legislation. But neither of these politicians actually care about that enough to upset their cash cows. They'll vote right along with whatever legislation that their donors support. So, they are deeply entrenched in Blue/Orange because Blue/Orange is their bread and butter.

Trump is definitely Blue/Orange. No question about it. So is our system. So, is Neoliberal Centrism. 

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

From Kim's POV it does not even matter if Trump is truthworthy. Even if Trump is the nicest guy in the world, in 2-6 years he will be out of office and Kim will have to deal with a new US administration which will want to overthrown him.

I don't know if this was a response to what I said. But it does actually matter to KJU if Trump is trustworthy, even if Trump will only be in there for a limited amount of time.

If he sees that Trump is staging a coup in Venezuela and knows that the U.S. does a ton of regime change wars all the time, then he genuinely has something to fear. Now, I don't know if NK actually has any resources Trump/America would be interested in, but if I were in KJU's position I would be reticent to negotiate denuclearization with a world superpower that's well-known for their wars and picking on smaller countries.

But if I were a dictator like KJU, I would also be a bit excited that Trump/America came to me. Like I said before, the U.S. backs like 70% of the world's dictatorships and even supplies weapons to them. If KJU thinks these negotiations could lead to something like that that, then he'd certainly be very interested in Trump.

 

 

[Joseph Maynor]

Trump is centered around Stage Red although his personas can shift into Blue and Orange when it serves his Ego-Heartbodymind to do so.  

Edited May 17, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Leo Gura]

@Emerald My point was, a person would have to be a total fool to place his life in the hands of Donald Trump's trustworthiness. Trump changes his mind more than a teenage girl. Because he is purely opportunistic.

[Anderz]

Also remember this: North Korea holds military parade without ICBMs - https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/09/asia/north-korea-celebrations-intl/index.html

That was Kim sending a message of denuclearization to the world, AND to his own citizens! If Kim would have wanted to appear like a nuclear weapons power publicly to his own people he would have kept the nukes in the military parade. He didn't.

[Emerald]

Just now, Leo Gura said:

@Emerald My point was, a person would have to be a total fool to place his life in the hands of Donald Trump's trustworthiness. Trump changes his mind more than a teenage girl.

I agree. Which is why I believe Trump's diplomacy/denuclearization bids are naive at best. Either that or they're for show.

Or potentially some other fuckery and trying to add another dictator to the collection. Though I don't really know if NK has anything to offer.

[How to be wise]

Donald Trump is just as good as Ramana Maharshi. Except for your mind’s judgment.

[Emerald]

2 minutes ago, How to be wise said:

Donald Trump is just as good as Ramana Maharshi. Except for your mind’s judgment.

If you can say that from the perspective of a child living in a cage on the Mexican border who hasn't seen their parents in a year-and-a-half then more power to you.

But if you are unable to do that, then check your self-deception and spiritual bypassing. 

[How to be wise]

@Emerald I’m working on it.

[Forestluv]

If I don’t think about people starving in the world, then it doesn’t exist, right?

Sounds like a comfortable and straightforward solution to end wold hunger. One can kick back, have a beer and watch Game of Thrones. Problem solved! ? 

[Anderz]

"Several 2014 photos of detained immigrant children in cages went viral in May, and former Obama administration officials rushed to offer explanations.

The former Obama speechwriter Jon Favreau had even shared the images on Twitter, mistakenly believing they were taken during Donald Trump's presidency." - https://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5?r=US&IR=T

[Forestluv]

@Anderz Does that justify Trump’s practice of detaining immigrant children in cages? Do two wrongs make a right? Do the separated caged children suffer less? . . . Or does it serve to insulate a person and their political views they are attached to and identify with?

[tedens]

36 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I agree. Which is why I believe Trump's diplomacy/denuclearization bids are naive at best. Either that or they're for show.

He is a showman, he likes noise. What character traits the showman has?

[Joseph Maynor]

Stage Red is all about creating and developing themselves to be a God among inferior humans in this world.  That has pros and cons to it.  Stage Red has a good side and a bad side.  You wanna take the good side and leave the bad side of Stage Red.  This is the same for each and every Spiral stage: take the good side and leave the bad side of each stage.

Edited May 17, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Emerald]

13 minutes ago, Anderz said:

"Several 2014 photos of detained immigrant children in cages went viral in May, and former Obama administration officials rushed to offer explanations.

The former Obama speechwriter Jon Favreau had even shared the images on Twitter, mistakenly believing they were taken during Donald Trump's presidency." - https://www.businessinsider.com/migrant-children-in-cages-2014-photos-explained-2018-5?r=US&IR=T

Yeah. They called Obama the deporter in chief. Not to mention, Obama bombed a bunch of civilians in Yemen.

So, I don't even understand why you'd bring up Obama's destructive behavior to justify/excuse Trump's destructive behavior.

 

[How to be wise]

20 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

If I don’t think about people starving in the world, then it doesn’t exist, right?

Sounds like a comfortable and straightforward solution to end wold hunger. One can kick back, have a beer and watch Game of Thrones. Problem solved! ? 

Exactly! If your work was being motivated by fear and guilt in the first place, how can you be happy?

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, Emerald said:

I don't even understand why you'd bring up Obama's destructive behavior to justify/excuse Trump's destructive behavior.

My guess is that it insulates a person from the consequences of the political views they identify with. 

[CreamCat]

Everyone having fun in this thread?