Is existence conscious of itself?

[Shin]

1 minute ago, arlin said:

Uhm, good analogy, thank you

That's more than an analogy

[arlin]

@Serotoninluv yes it's true ahaha but how can it be bad? 

[arlin]

3 minutes ago, Shin said:

That's more than an analogy

You are a firm believer aren't you ahaha i like you

[arlin]

8 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

There seems to be a contraction within logic - wanting evidence, proof, confirmation etc. Eventually, the desire for, and attachment to, an objective external reality is transcended. 

All of this logic, reasoning, science etc. is “within” something more expansive. “Within” isn’t quite accurate, yet I can’t think of a better word. The words “integrated” and “inter-connected” are also somewhat accurate.

Uh yes i know what you mean by that

7 minutes ago, Shin said:

 

 

[Forestluv]

11 minutes ago, arlin said:

@Serotoninluv yes it's true ahaha but how can it be bad? 

It’s not “bad” or “good”. Logic and reasoning is “within” something more expansive. Being contracted within logic and reasoning isn’t “bad”, it’s just limiting. As an analogy, imagine someone was contracted within Switzerland. There’s nothing “bad” with that. Switzerland is a lovely place. I loved it there - beautiful landscapes and people. Yet if a being is contracted within Switzerland, they will not realize Switzerland is within Europe. They will be contracted and limited to Switzerland and won’t get to expand and explore beyond Switzerland. 

To me, it sounds like you have a conceptual framework and could use some mystical experiences.

[arlin]

Yes @Serotoninluv, i understand what you mean. 

 

[Heviin]

24 minutes ago, arlin said:

Problem is scientist believe that consciousness is created in the brain (I have seen your consciousness video).

Have you noticed that even science requires faith for it to make sense? All of it's claims and predictions are based on conjectures. Einstein showed that objective truths cannot be separate from the subject, and this soon after gave birth to quantum mechanics which further showed that reality is perspective. Bohr showed that physical reality isn't physical at all, but an abstract probability field which only acts as physical when there's an observer. You may think science is based on "facts," but its actually based on what's practical. Science does not reveal nature herself. "We have to remember that what we observe is not nature herself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." -Heisenberg

People often demand for empirical evidences whenever any metaphysical subject is discussed, and while empiricism was a fine tool for rebelling against the law of theology of the time, it is far from infallible. It is grounded upon inductive reasoning, which is circular in its reasoning, and history has shown that theories derived from empiricism have been proven wrong time and time again.

Why did the apple fall from the tree? Newton reasoned, through induction and empiricism, that the gravity from the Earth’s mass pulled it down from the tree. Then Einstein flipped it 180 by reasoning that the Earth, which is imposing its mass within the four dimensional spacetime permeating throughout the known universe, was actually pushing its mass onto spacetime and thus onto the apple. Gravitational force comes from the bending of spacetime—not the mass itself. How could Newton be so wrong despite following the rigorous empirical scientific method? Because all scientific theories and predictions, no matter how self-evident they may seem, are grounded upon man made assumptions and conjectures—guesses—and it is upon this grounding belief that science proceeds to make practical testable implications regardless of it actually being true or not. Science is very much akin to faith in this regard. Practicality is also why we still teach Newtonian Physics in school.

And now there’s quantum mechanics, which brings to doubt all of reality derived from our simple sensory experience as it being physical. Objective truth does not exist “out in reality” separate from the subject, but rather the subject is intrinsically entangled to the objective world due to the collapse of the quantum wavefunction in the presence of that observer. Reality is subjective, and therefore all scientific calculations must be taken into account from the subject’s view point if we’re looking for answers to reality. The quantum wavefunction and Schrodinger’s equation is not the answer to reality. Equations are merely symbols used to represent reality, but these are not reality itself. Current reasoning for this is that they assume science should only be preoccupied by the “how” (mathematics), and that the “why” (interpretation) is a metaphysical endeavor reserved only to philosophy and religion. This is at most a partial view, not the full picture. Science and religion are opposite sides of the same coin, the practice of attempting to understand what the hell is going on. Metaphysics/spirituality is the breaking of that duality so that the full picture may be experienced.

Science does not know why there is something rather than nothing, or how life began on Earth, or what was before the known universe. Science does not even have a full understanding of a single grain of sand. Think about that.

[Inliytened1]

@arlin you have to be radically opened and not clinging to any particular paradigm. 

Just tell yourself hey...I'm not going to make any assumptions here...I'm just going to investigate it and hey, maybe I'll find something.

Keep in mind that all through history before a new paradigm shift could be made the people that had discovered it were often shunned.  But eventually it turned out that they were correct.

Unfortunately we are probably 100 years away from the rest of the population to start waking up to the Truth.

I feel blessed that i was able to discover it in my lifetime, though i fear I'll be dead and gone before humanity evolves to truly higher levels of consciousness.  This is nothing new in history.  It is just very hard to release what your culture has taught you.  But all you need for this is an open mind see where it leads you.   Are you going to start self inquiry?

[Forestluv]

@arlin You seem to like SD theory. In SD terms, Orange is a rigid intellectual mode based on objectivism. Yellow is a fluid mode of being, as it understands and has embodied relativism.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, Shin said:

Don't take my suffering,

I need it !

I don't know for what though

That's exactly right, you do need it. God cannot know itself unless it knows suffering. Bliss cannot be known or apprecaited without first suffering.

Life would be incomplete without suffering.

[Inliytened1]

@Serotoninluv @arlin  indeed if someone is rigid..is a rationalist, materialist, skeptist, Spirituality will not compute for them and it will prevent them from evolving.

[arlin]

Thank you guys for all the answers, i really do appreciate it. All of what you said of science is logical and coherent.

Yet, you come from the perspective that the subject-object experience is real and so then it can be understood, it can be known with ideas,concepts, or knowing the limits of the mind and science.

Non dualism says that the subject-object experience is illusory. So i tryied to point out to you that trying to overcome it, with having the right knowledge or experiences, it's just furhering the misunderstanding. Absolute Freedom cannot be found within the experience of separation.

Real experience or real knowing are consequences of the illusory individual, the illusion of subject-object experience.

There is nothing missing and no need to find anything. When the dream ends, no one wakes up. 

You say that when the dream ends, some sort of god wakes up which is conscious of himself.

Im just pointing out the fact that this concept, can be used to fix what is missing/to find something real.

All of these efforts are consequence of the experience of separation, the subject-object experience, the individual. Which is illusory!

 

I appreciate all of your answers, i really do! And i am really gratefull that you guys are trying to help me understand, i really am! I don't want to be annoying...   But what i explained to you seems logical and a complete picture after all.

10 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

In SD terms, Orange is a rigid intellectual mode based on objectivism.

So this is what SD theory is all about huh? Interesting. I have not watched leo's SD videos yet.

Edited May 16, 2019 by arlin

[Nahm]

@arlin ...elbow nudge

[arlin]

@Nahm huh?  

[Inliytened1]

@arlin Remember, i know this doesn't seem clear to you yet, because you are using the rational mind.  99 percent of the world is doing the same.

But logic and reason is couched within reality.  It is a finitude of Infinity.  Reality is Infinity.  You are Infinity.  (Not your finite self but your Infinite Self).  Logic and reason cannot grasp reality, for reality is prior to it.  Reason cannot reach outside to grasp it.

This can only be achieved through a mystical experience in which you mystically become Infinity.  And there your mind will open and consciousness will increase.  You may not experience all facets of Truth in one experience, but certain Truths/Absolutes will be revealed to you.

 

[Shin]

[Robi Steel]

@arlin Being conscious of something is the requirement for there to be something in the world. When there is nobody experiencing something, it cannot happen, its not there. The fact that you can experience anything at the moment proves that the universe can experience something. Because the universe includes everything in the universe. 

There is no such thing as existence, existence is not something that comes before being conscious. There wasnt first existence and then someone became aware of it. Existence is something that is being orchestrated by the process of being "awake" or "there" or "conscious". The process of being aware of something is the whole of existence. 

[Forestluv]

3 hours ago, arlin said:

Absolute Freedom cannot be found within the experience of separation

Absolute Freedom has no conditions. It is Absolute. 

3 hours ago, arlin said:

So this is what SD theory is all about huh? Interesting. 

No, it is one component of a much more expansive theory. 

[Shin]

11 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Should remove the red circle though, so there would be white without any border.

I like colors

[cetus]

@Serotoninluv I think of existence (matter) as being "condensed" consciousness and most ppl on the street having an experience of existance that is also in a semi condensed state of consciousness. The mind condenses conscious awareness into it's most dense form as the appearence of existence.

*The op may be confusing consciousness with "knowing".