How would you develop yourself after enlightenment?

[CreamCat]

Quote

Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.

After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water.

This quote means personal development carries on after enlightenment.

How do you develop yourself after enlightenment?

[Inliytened1]

@CreamCat shouldn't you be focused on getting there first?   

But yes it continues.  

If you want Enlightenment don't fall until the trap that personal development stops to where it will prevent you from finding Truth.

But a whole new world will open up to you in addition.  And i mean that literally.

[CreamCat]

If Leo Gura states that he's not enlightened after years of pursuing enlightenment, I cannot rely on enlightenment for years, either. Personal development cannot depend on such an unreliable concept.

But, the definition of enlightenment is not clear.

A man on this forum claims to have attained enlightenment after one year of hardcore self inquiry. Is the man enlightened by Leo Gura's standards? I don't know.

Edited May 15, 2019 by CreamCat

[Inliytened1]

@CreamCat you are just me getting me annoyed.  Nice try but i see right thru myself

No i know i must have a gift.   But am i supposed to stop trying to help you guys wake up?

[Inliytened1]

@CreamCat and Leo is enlightened as fuck.

[CreamCat]

14 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@CreamCat and Leo is enlightened as fuck.

@Leo Gura Ask Leo Gura.

[Inliytened1]

@CreamCat He doesn't have to answer and it doesn't matter.  You ARE him.  Not just figuratively but literally.  You are just not conscious of that.  Right now you are falling into a trap by not being open minded.

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Dan502]

My humble impression is that Leo has had "enlightened as fuck" experiences, probably deeper than anyone I'll meet in my lifetime.

However perhaps on Leo's average day with no DMT etc. he might not consider himself "enlightened" yet.

Or he might be, I don't know.

He seems very wise and accomplished and makes great content and I'm sure if he's not already "enlightened", he will be someday.

Please forgive me for making any unnecessary or untrue distinctions here in this post.

[ajasatya]

@CreamCat why would knowing True Nature stop you from embracing the human experience and sharpening your skills?

i'm working towards becoming a better professional, a better husband and a better friend. in a near future, i'll do my best to be a good father and a good grandfather.

i also want to learn how to cook. and i also want to have a more flexible body.

Edited May 15, 2019 by ajasatya

[Shin]

3 hours ago, CreamCat said:

If Leo Gura states that he's not enlightened after years of pursuing enlightenment, I cannot rely on enlightenment for years, either. Personal development cannot depend on such an unreliable concept.

But, the definition of enlightenment is not clear.

A man on this forum claims to have attained enlightenment after one year of hardcore self inquiry. Is the man enlightened by Leo Gura's standards? I don't know.

Different meaning of that word for different people:

Awakening -> Often used as becoming aware of the dream of thoughts (being conscious) or a temporary enlightenment experience.

Self-Realization -> Being conscious of the nothingness aspect of God, which is only half-way.

God-Realization -> Being conscious of the infinite nature of God, which is both form and formless.

Enlightenment -> Can mean any of the above depending on who's talking, it's just a label after all.

[OctagonOctopus]

Believing you are enlightened and no longer need to practice developing yourself is one of the ways a zen devil comes about. Developing yourself must become a way of life more so then just a practice. 

[Inliytened1]

@Dan502 perhaps.  As i said it matters not.  You are him.  This whole damn thing is you and you can discover that.  Its breathtaking.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@CreamCat

3 hours ago, CreamCat said:

If Leo Gura states that he's not enlightened after years of pursuing enlightenment, I cannot rely on enlightenment for years, either. Personal development cannot depend on such an unreliable concept.

But, the definition of enlightenment is not clear.

A man on this forum claims to have attained enlightenment after one year of hardcore self inquiry. Is the man enlightened by Leo Gura's standards? I don't know.

The most advanced teachers say that the journey into enlightenment itself does not end. They keep learning that is why embracing a beginners mind is important. I keep learning new things about the technique I use daily or weekly after a couple of years. For instance, my teacher says the beginnings of meditation are the first 10 to 15 years. Yet, when talking about the practice you would not even notice that it is that serious. 


There are different degrees of enlightenment that you can read about, for instance, state-stages from ken Wilber or from any tradition jhanas, samadhis and what does not exist. 

Be wary of green spirituality uplifting a single person and choosing them to be the "enlightened" one simply because they share their view or represent a quality that they like. It's useless to talk with them, you can do it to compare and contrast, but it's not very effective. 

Yellow is more technical, but not in an orange sense of knowledge and knowledge about concepts, but more in a functional way. For instance the zen retreat where I went to last year, had 1 2 guys who studied physics one who studied math, a computer scientist, a girl who studied smth. related to humanity and environment, le moi + 3-4 classic green spirituality type people. 

The green guys did not attend every sesshin(meditation session), as the yellow people did. Talking to the yellow people was more about functionality and making something out of the experience, not beliefs and making others feel comfortable and belonging to their community. Green thought it was on the same conceptual framework then the zen master. Questions from a yellow perspective prompted also very very different answers from the zen master. Green was more about, meaning, why do it, it all relative, it is somehow fun and good, is it not religious.

They did certainly not comprehend how deep this can go and were more there for their group bounding and experience-oriented adventure.

Relying on enlightenment to solve problems won't work, yet (but) let alone through meditation you become more effective in the world. See studies about the increase in grey matter, ability to recall memories, less anxiety etc. 

I can speak from personal experience about enlightenment only so far because of psychedelics, which showed me insights during physical real-life retreats that was more or less validated by monks with 40y+ experience. 

For instance, the main reason why I practice and why I am still practicing is because I dislike pain, I never and still do not quite understand why people suffer. It never made sense to me. You can argue with me about this as long as you want, but it still does not make sense to me.

This is a greater perspective about after (post - ) enlightenment.
 

 

Edited May 15, 2019 by ValiantSalvatore

[CreamCat]

1 hour ago, ajasatya said:

@CreamCat why would knowing True Nature stop you from embracing the human experience and sharpening your skills?

i'm working towards becoming a better professional, a better husband and a better friend. in a near future, i'll do my best to be a good father and a good grandfather.

i also want to learn how to cook. and i also want to have a more flexible body.

I'm more interested in becoming a better human being that can tackle more difficult challenges and learn faster and become a legend.

I want to become an absolute legend.

Edited May 15, 2019 by CreamCat

[ajasatya]

1 minute ago, CreamCat said:

a better human being that can tackle more difficult challenges and learn faster and leave a legend

is that all a "better human being" is about?

[ValiantSalvatore]

@CreamCat You would basically be a modern version of a bodhisattva then. Which I want to strive towards to also. 

[Shin]

31 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

I'm more interested in becoming a better human being that can tackle more difficult challenges and learn faster and become a legend.

I want to become an absolute legend.

Why ?

[CreamCat]

55 minutes ago, ajasatya said:

is that all a "better human being" is about?

No. I was not precise in my words. I want to become an absolute legend.

[ajasatya]

1 minute ago, CreamCat said:

No. I was not precise in my words. I want to become an absolute legend.

how does one become an absolute legend, exactly? what would make you an absolute legend?

[CreamCat]

1 minute ago, ajasatya said:

how does one become an absolute legend, exactly? what would make you an absolute legend?

I want to exceed all known limitations in my field of work. Excellence will do it. I want to be satisfied for my work.

Edited May 15, 2019 by CreamCat