3 months fwb probably done, got me fucked up

[Shin]

Most women would tell you that even with lots of orgasms, sex can still be unfulfilling.

Why ?

Because you as a guy focus on a goal instead of focusing on the experience and the connection with her

They want a deep emotional even spiritual connection with YOU

Not your dick.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Shin

[Emerald]

17 minutes ago, whoareyou said:

@SageModeAustin You did absolutely nothing wrong by bringing up RSD or bringing her on the tour. That is not a deal breaker in any way.

For most women this is at least a red flag. And for many women it's totally a deal-breaker. Women, who are relationship oriented in general, are looking for a man who is oriented toward stability and settling down. So, the RSD thing calls that into question. Very uncomfortable for most women who are looking for security and stability. 

Now, you can get lots of sex that way as a man. You will have success with that. But you'll tend to scare off anyone who may have been interested in a serious relationship. 

 

 

[SageModeAustin]

@Emerald I’ve told her things in person about how I don’t think she is some random girl that I picked up or some experiment and that I actually care for her looked her in the eyes and said it and was completely real (because on previous dates she said she feels like an experiment one time) and she really appreciated that date when I opened up about that. But after that I went back to being a fuck boy for a bit and eh things kept going back and forth from being real/fuckboy/needy. Anyways since this is all done and over. Why am I still not over this? I know all the answers but I cannot overcome this guilty feeling/little bitch neediness feeling. I also feel like I have to tell EVERYONE about it even though I know what they are going to say..it’s like I’m self sabotaging myself and it’s painful to stop? Like wtf 

Edited May 30, 2019 by SageModeAustin

[SageModeAustin]

@Shin yes we had this for a few months before I got the negative spiral and shit hit the fan. 

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, SageModeAustin said:

@Emerald I’ve told her things in person about how I don’t think she is some random girl that I picked up or some experiment and that I actually care for her looked her in the eyes and said it and was completely real (because on previous dates she said she feels like an experiment one time) and she really appreciated that date when I opened up about that. But after that I went back to being a fuck boy for a bit and eh things kept going back and forth from being real/fuckboy/needy. Anyways since this is all done and over. Why am I still not over this? I know all the answers but I cannot overcome this guilty feeling/little bitch neediness feeling. I also feel like I have to tell EVERYONE about it even though I know what they are going to say..it’s like I’m self sabotaging myself and it’s painful to stop? Like wtf 

Well, at the end of the day, there is no sure-fire way to make a woman fall in love. Attraction can be garnered in some cases. But love is a different story. And this is especially true for a woman who is guarded and who's still doctoring old wounds and trying to hide them. She cannot feel the way you do because there is pain, and there's not much you can do about that.

So, in this case, I'm thinking that it's more related to her pain and insecurities keeping her from relaxing into her feelings. It was probably easy to do before she started to feel that way. But once she did, she probably noticed a vulnerability. Then, she saw what were red flags to her in the nature of the FWB realtionship and the RSD thing. 

Since she has had the wool pulled over her eyes in the past, and she doesn't have a clear intuitive sense for who's playing her and who's not. So, this is probably why she became defensive and lost feelings. She couldn't take the risk.

Now, it's normal to feel the way that you do. It may not be seen as very manly. And it could go over the bounds of social folkways as well. In which case, there are ways to express authentically and honestly without being out of bounds in this way and maintain social acuity. But getting strong feelings for a woman you're sleeping with is normal. That's what's supposed to happen. Biologically, you'd be together for quite some time raising a child together if you'd had sex in the caveman days. So, feelings are normal.

Now, if you're making it mean something about yourself or your status or something, then of course that shows a self-esteem issue. But it's normal to feel deeply, as long as it's expressed properly without going out of bounds. And you should respect her wishes about not contacting her. So, you will have to process this in a different way.

But you have to tune out all these pick-up half-truths if you want to accept your feelings and learn to express them in a copacetic way, because it won't work for these matters. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by Emerald

[Forestluv]

I just wanted to chime in that ime, it doesn’t work out well by trying to repress and hide insecurities and act secure. It just causes more internal problems. I found it much better to work through inner insecurities through introspection, contemplation and discussions with others. Insecurity can be expressed in immature ungrounded ways and mature grounded ways. We all have insecurities - when one person expresses it in a way that grasps for validation and attention in a “please don’t leave me” way - it doesn’t transmit a sense of well-being. The other person has their own insecurities and the last thing most people want is to take on someone else’s insecurities. . . Yet there is also a mature way to express insecurity. Once a person has worked through it, they can sit with the feelings without clutching for another. When the timing is appropriate, one can have fearless vulnerability and speak from a place of experience and grounded confidence. There is no longer fear of rejection. This can come across as being sturdy as a rock. This can allow a safe space and the other person may sense the other’s maturity and stability in this area and open up with some of their own insecurities. . . Yet one has to work through their own issues first - one can’t fake it, they will get exposed if it’s not genuine. Plus, timing is crucial. One doesn’t bring up the topic to relieve their own insecurity by grasping or to try and look fearless. One doesn’t need to raise the issue in a needy way because they are grounded when the feeling of insecurity arises and they can deal with it without seeking and clutching. Occasionally it may come up in conversation, yet in a grounded way that can be helpful to the other person and relationship. Almost like a role model for the other person’s insecurities. A role model as how a mature, stable person deals with insecurity within a relationship.

[SageModeAustin]

56 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Well, at the end of the day, there is no sure-fire way to make a woman fall in love. Attraction can be garnered in some cases. But love is a different story. And this is especially true for a woman who is guarded and who's still doctoring old wounds and trying to hide them. She cannot feel the way you do because there is pain, and there's not much you can do about that.

So, in this case, I'm thinking that it's more related to her pain and insecurities keeping her from relaxing into her feelings. It was probably easy to do before she started to feel that way. But once she did, she probably noticed a vulnerability. Then, she saw what were red flags to her in the nature of the FWB realtionship and the RSD thing. 

Since she has had the wool pulled over her eyes in the past, and she doesn't have a clear intuitive sense for who's playing her and who's not. So, this is probably why she became defensive and lost feelings. She couldn't take the risk.

Now, it's normal to feel the way that you do. It may not be seen as very manly. And it could go over the bounds of social folkways as well. In which case, there are ways to express authentically and honestly without being out of bounds in this way and maintain social acuity. But getting strong feelings for a woman you're sleeping with is normal. That's what's supposed to happen. Biologically, you'd be together for quite some time raising a child together if you'd had sex in the caveman days. So, feelings are normal.

Now, if you're making it mean something about yourself or your status or something, then of course that shows a self-esteem issue. But it's normal to feel deeply, as long as it's expressed properly without going out of bounds. And you should respect her wishes about not contacting her. So, you will have to process this in a different way.

But you have to tune out all these pick-up half-truths if you want to accept your feelings and learn to express them in a copacetic way, because it won't work for these matters. 

@EmeraldBreaking social folkways? How the hell am I breaking a social folkways. Lol all I did was open up to her and told her the truth straight up over text right after it ended. Like..that is not lack of social acuity that’s just me having some closure after the four months we’ve spent together. That’s it, nothing more. Maybe she might have got taken back because it was all so much but I mean yeah that’s what to be expected when your closing a chapter and the other person is expressing themselves after its ended jus like that over text. ESP when there’s so much miscommunication on both ends

Edited May 31, 2019 by SageModeAustin

[SageModeAustin]

@Serotoninluv so your saying this had to happen for me to learn what ur saying? Or what? I should do like An ayahausca trip or something because I don’t see any Danm way I can be content with my insecurities through therapy and meditation to the degree that you had just described 

Edited May 31, 2019 by SageModeAustin

[Forestluv]

@SageModeAustin This probably revealed surface level stuff, yet I think it’s good it was exposed and that you aren’t avoiding or blaming her. You are open to looking at it. That’s huge. I would be careful tho about spiraling into a place of “see I’m too insecure and can’t be confident. I’ll never be able to have a healthy relationship”.

My second Ayahuasca ceremony went into the depths of my deepest insecurities - how they formed and how they were subconsciously directing my feelings and behavior. Later I was shown everyone else’s inner insecurities and deep empathy and love arose. This could probably be revealed in other settings, yet an Aya ceremony is a great atmosphere due to the love and support there.

One of the keys I’ve found is to stop identifying with the insecurities. Rather than “I am insecure”, it becomes “A feeling of insecurity has arisen in my body”. It is a totally different orientation.

[Emerald]

8 minutes ago, SageModeAustin said:

@EmeraldBreaking social folkways? How the hell am I breaking a social folkways. Lol all I did was open up to her and told her the truth straight up over text right after it ended. Like..that is not lack of social acuity that’s just me having some closure after the four months we’ve spent together. That’s it, nothing more. Maybe she might have got taken back because it was all so much but I mean yeah that’s what to be expected when your closing a chapter and the other person is expressing themselves after its ended jus like that over text. ESP when there’s so much miscommunication on both ends

I'm not saying that you necessarily are breaking social folkways. But when it comes to having deep feelings in general, there are social folkways around the expression of that. So, if you want to express your feelings honestly, you'll have to be mindful of them. So, it's not about fixing your feelings but about filtering your feelings through the lens of those social folkways.

But I don't think it's out of bounds to want closure.

My main point is that your feelings are not wrong, but to be mindful of how you express them relative to social norms and others' boundaries. This is general advice and not specific to what I'm observing.

Also, it's important to realize that, even if you do all the "right" things, there is never a guarantee. There is no method to love. It has so much to do with chemistry and intuition in her experience which is no fault of your own. And particularly, with regard to women who have traumas and blockages, it doesn't have to do with anything you did or didn't do. It's just her own internal thing that she has to deal with.

So, there is really nothing to fix, unless you want to sharpen your social acuity and find ways to authentically express without seeming needy. But I don't necessarily think that's the case, as I am not observing directly. Your first text looked very normal to me, and I didn't pick up on neediness in it. The second one was very long, which would indicate neediness. But given that that was the only means of communication it makes sense for you to get closure.

 

[SageModeAustin]

@Emerald well I didn’t show you all of the texts there’s a LOT but that’s unnecessary to show. I only got “needy” with the last few texts when I sensed things were ending. Otherwise the rest of my texts were not needy at all as I just used the mirroring advice (texting the same amount back they text U) I only showed u the “needy ones” because that’s when things were spiraling downn until she pulled the plug, anyways  thank you emerald for all of your help. Lesson learned and it ducking sucks, but where’s the lesson without pain right?  

The intuition thing about love is interesting, your right I can’t fix it I just have to let it go..time is probably my best here. My mind tends to obsess over what I could have done even though it’s over which is super stressful and annoying. Lastly yes I should learn how to express myself better maybe tell her in person, but still I felt better disclosing all that I said rather than not..there was like almost no chance of getting her out like I said before to express al of that. Although I could’ve waited and tried and if not then expressed it over text, that would’ve built some emotional maturity no doubt. Life is a danmed big game and it seems I’ve lost , thank you! 

Edited May 31, 2019 by SageModeAustin

[SageModeAustin]

@Serotoninluv I’m avoiding her completely after that last text she sent also considering she pulled the plug so idk why u would think that I’m not avoiding her. Although I am not blaming her I am blaming myself completely which is a problem because it wasn’t my fault 100% although I really am blaming myself for it. As for the ayahausca I bought a ticket for Joshua tree but I have to postpone it because I recently took anti depressants. I’ve heard great things about it and it sounds like you had an enlightening/permanent change experience..which is why I want to do it so bad. One thing I fear about ayahausca is I’m gonna think “omg if I did this before this relationship would have worked so much better.” Yes identifying the feelings is one thing, but I feel like you have to experience the profoundness of it through something like dmt or ayahausca to really understand it and put it into practice. Or I could be wrong and just making excuses.

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

@SageModeAustin This probably revealed surface level stuff, yet I think it’s good it was exposed and that you aren’t avoiding or blaming her. You are open to looking at it. That’s huge. I would be careful tho about spiraling into a place of “see I’m too insecure and can’t be confident. I’ll never be able to have a healthy relationship”.

My second Ayahuasca ceremony went into the depths of my deepest insecurities - how they formed and how they were subconsciously directing my feelings and behavior. Later I was shown everyone else’s inner insecurities and deep empathy and love arose. This could probably be revealed in other settings, yet an Aya ceremony is a great atmosphere due to the love and support there.

One of the keys I’ve found is to stop identifying with the insecurities. Rather than “I am insecure”, it becomes “A feeling of insecurity has arisen in my body”. It is a totally different orientation.

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by SageModeAustin

[Forestluv]

@SageModeAustin I didn’t phrase it well. I meant that you are not avoiding personal responsibility.

[SageModeAustin]

I also felt/feel like I’m supposed to save her from her emotional trauma. That it’s somehow my fault for it (rape, father leaving her etc)

Edited May 31, 2019 by SageModeAustin

[SageModeAustin]

I think I’m becoming neurotic with perfectionism. I keep thinking about what I should’ve done, what I shouldn’t have done what I could’ve done, what I should’ve said, what I shouldn’t have said in x y z scenario ahhhh fuck! 

[Emerald]

14 minutes ago, SageModeAustin said:

I think I’m becoming neurotic with perfectionism. I keep thinking about what I should’ve done, what I shouldn’t have done what I could’ve done, what I should’ve said, what I shouldn’t have said in x y z scenario ahhhh fuck! 

There is probably nothing that you could've done. I think one very harmful misconception in pick-up/dating circles is the idea that your lack of (x,y,z) caused the woman to be disinterested. It is an empowering thought because it makes men feel more in control of their dating lives. But it's a double edged sword because a man will be made to feel responsible for something he had no control over in the first place.

But it's a very enticing half-truth. So, it's difficult to drop.

 

 

[SageModeAustin]

13 hours ago, Emerald said:

 and don't have that "one person in particular" thing that you are capable of and have preference toward.

 

What did u mean by this? @Emerald

[SageModeAustin]

@Emerald to say it’s enticing doesn’t make sense. That’s like saying if I did the logically better thing it still wouldn’t have mattered, but that just doesn’t make sense. For example if I didn’t take her to the rsd tour or if I was more caring when she opened up about her ex instead of shutting her down then things totally would have turned out a little bit better. How is this NOT the case?? I mean you said it’s a half-truth but how is that a half truth 

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

There is probably nothing that you could've done. I think one very harmful misconception in pick-up/dating circles is the idea that your lack of (x,y,z) caused the woman to be disinterested. It is an empowering thought because it makes men feel more in control of their dating lives. But it's a double edged sword because a man will be made to feel responsible for something he had no control over in the first place.

But it's a very enticing half-truth. So, it's difficult to drop.

 

 

 

Edited May 31, 2019 by SageModeAustin

[Psychonaut]

@SageModeAustin I have read through this drama of a thread over a couple of days. 

First of all. Chill dude. It's just a girl. I know I know. This is like saying "just do it" and expecting someone to know what that means. 

However girls come and go, they literally do like leaves in the wind. Nothing you can do in retrospect other than to be a bit more conscious about what parts of yourself you show to girls in the first few months. 

Your experience with Brooke reminds me of my last girl. She had some issues, anti depressants and hard overreactions "like faking her suicide because her parents said something". She was unable to acknowledge the pain she was inflicting on the people around her.

I started to write poems around that time to deal with all the pain this "relationship" was causing me. Here are a few lines I wrote around that time.

Excerpts from a freeform-poem titled "A beautiful mind"

A deep sense of love and compassion

Pain too, so much pain and suffering

But I will not close my heart

I will not close down to the pain

I will continue to try

I will choose heaven every day

I will leave the world a better place

I will help the people that want my help

I will leave the people that don't want to be helped

I cannot help them

I will continue to love them

Even though I cannot help them

I will focus on the people that I can help

Someone else will do the job for the others I am not supposed to help

In a way I extend my hand to everyone, friend or girlfriend. If they take it and let me pull them up, it is their choice. I think you should not actively try to change or help someone, or press too hard into the hurt parts of other people. I see it as a gift if they open up to me. But they are independent people and responsible for their own actions. We merge temporarily and of course I can infuse the girl with energy to strive for the better. But if she doesn't use it,  I have done all I could.

So have you. Relationships are a playground for rapid learning. It is not necessarily the most pleasant learning and it is often painful. Just hang in there. As long as you are aware of your emotions, acknowledge them and allow yourself to feel them you will move forwards. Relationships are not about thinking, they are not fabrications of the mind so there is not much point in trying to figure out what went wrong. 

Please don't blame yourself for a lost relationship. I lost my last one and was sad at first too. My current 3 months fwb relationship which might turn into a gf/bf thing is much deeper than my last one. So in a way you might be thankful in retrospect like I am now.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Psychonaut

[Bill W]

@Psychonaut That's really good thanks for sharing