Comment In How Your Mind Distorts Reality

[Huz]

This is for if you have watched Leos new video 

A youtube user said

"so are you saying that we should have no concepts of things? isnt it helpful to know more about an object than what is visible to the naked eye? and if we stop having concepts, how are we supposed to interact with anyone or anything? for instance we'd stop understanding language because we have a concept for every word, giving it its meaning, which without there'd be no meaning at all. is that what you'd describe as actualized?"

Is there some validity to what he is saying or is his comment an extremum? I think its the later. What are your guys opinions?

 

Edited April 24, 2016 by Huz88

[Truth]

1 hour ago, Huz88 said:

This is for if you have watched Leos new video 

A youtube user said

"so are you saying that we should have no concepts of things? isnt it helpful to know more about an object than what is visible to the naked eye? and if we stop having concepts, how are we supposed to interact with anyone or anything? for instance we'd stop understanding language because we have a concept for every word, giving it its meaning, which without there'd be no meaning at all. is that what you'd describe as actualized?"

Is there some validity to what he is saying or is his comment an extremum? I feel like its the later but not sure. What are your guys opinions?

 

This is the counter-intuitve and paradoxicalness about this whole thing that Leo describes. Every question or assumption is already based on his projection on reality, and you can also see it as a procrastination to even test or find out for himself, he hasn't even questioned his own pre-existing notions he's already made about his perception of reality, he's already supporting his beliefs and false premises he's already made about reality on top of more of his beliefs and his false premises. How can you find out for yourself if your ego and preexisting notions about what will happen have already been made? Even deeper, the meaning he made when the information entered his mind and the time between when he made his comment was already his projection on reality, ran through his self agenda, ran through his ego and every belief, thought or assumption he's already made about reality to come to his conclusion, or his projection on reality, every meaning, judgement, or evaluation is all part of this defficiency cognition that Leo ascribes. The very thing we are  trying to undermine. I'de say the real question is how does one practically do this?

Edited April 24, 2016 by Truth
The real question

[Pav]

I believe you are still able to conceptualise, the key difference is that you see concepts for what they are, merely models/abstractions, and do not confuse them for reality itself.

[Saarah]

@Huz88 

Yes what @Mat Pav said, I think it's about seeing the concept of an object as a man made thing, which from that concept it only presents one form of egoic vision of the objects whereas when you're actualised you see the egoic concept but also the millions of other connections of the object and that have nothing to do with you as a user of the object or language and hence you see the fuller picture of something thereby developing a 'being' cognition 

Its very difficult to do this beyond just talking about it though, when I look at my coat I just see a coat and when I look at my phone I see the phone, even though I know in my mind it's full off other connections I simply see objects from my perspective 

The thing I find very confusing and difficult about this is how man has made and crafted objects like cars and so I don't understand how a car can be seen from a perspective other than the ego, whereas I feel like with nature and language (as language is built into us, there's just different versions) it's easier to think of seeing that as something not an object because it existed without the projection of the ego, but ego was what created the car

[Naviy]

2 hours ago, Huz88 said:

This is for if you have watched Leos new video 

A youtube user said

"so are you saying that we should have no concepts of things? isnt it helpful to know more about an object than what is visible to the naked eye? and if we stop having concepts, how are we supposed to interact with anyone or anything? for instance we'd stop understanding language because we have a concept for every word, giving it its meaning, which without there'd be no meaning at all. is that what you'd describe as actualized?"

Is there some validity to what he is saying or is his comment an extremum? I think its the later. What are your guys opinions?

 

Yeah, try to "stop understanding language" and try to lose your ability "to interact with anyone or anything", lol  

"I should not have concepts" is just another concept and thought. Look at it in the real time when it appears. See it as what it is in the real time.

[charlie2dogs]

most of what is talked about concerning these things are being spoken from the identity and ego.  Trying to rationalized matters of self realization from identity is a complete failure from the start for the most part because it is generally based on programing, beliefs, and assumptions.

The solution is to fully understand what self realization is, and that cannot be done by the identity, however that being said, if the consciousness is beginning to awaken in the human being, it may observe what a self realized being is doing or trying to show him or her as the identity, or through some new realization, often though the consciousness is so programed with nonsense that has taken root in the identity of the human being that what is attempting to be taught is over rode by programing and false beliefs, however if the consciousness has begun to awaken, it will have an affect that may in time cause more awakening to the point that consciousness desires complete liberation from the identity and ego, programing and belief. When that happens and self realization is attained by consciousness, it will seem like there has been a sort of disconnect from the identity whereby consciousness functions as the being that it truly is without the influence of the identity and ego.

There are many misconceptions about self realization, love, meditation and what is real personal growth, these things generally are rationalized as the identity and its ego and the desires of the identity.

Love is a state of being, not an act performed, and that state of being is the self realized being, the identity will always seek to satisfy its desires and ego.

meditation is used primarily as a relaxation by most, and they arent even aware of it.  The highest reward of meditation is that it enables one to move from the identity functioning unconsciously in life to a being of consciousness, functioning in a conscious, present, aware being functioning in the moments of life, the only place that life can be lived and the only place that reality can be seen, and the only place where there is any choice, and even that choice as a self realized being is very limited as the consciousness at that point want to be in a state of liberation therefore any choices made will be made so as to remain in a space of liberation.

Personal growth is the identity going through changes, it is not self realization, self realization is consciousness awakening unto itself and detaching from the identity to a large degree so that it can function as a self realized being.

Understanding these things will make a huge difference, but they will not be understood by the identity because the identity cannot experience them.  It has to be experienced from another place, and that is of your core being which is consciousness.  There is much much more to this than is generally seen, however if your consciousness is awakening to any degree and having some new realization, while it is fresh, embrace it, contemplate it if at all possible and it will grow and expand within consciousness.

Be still,  be quiet, and be with the life force within, just simply experience it, forget about stilling the mind you are never going to do that, you have too much rooted in your consciousness, forget about everything just experience your core being, it will do the rest of the work when it becomes your home once again rather than the identity.  In this space of being you are home, it is an all powerful, all knowing, being that created your identity, physical body, the little world around you and even your universe that you observe as a human identity, as a being of consciousness you are the universe.

[Huz]

thanks guys, very powerful comments. I am learning so much on this forum! 

6 hours ago, Saarah said:

The thing I find very confusing and difficult about this is how man has made and crafted objects like cars and so I don't understand how a car can be seen from a perspective other than the ego, whereas I feel like with nature and language

The car was an invention by humans, as nest was an invention of a bird. I can't exactly speak for the bird but i assume it doesn't label the nest, "nest". It instinctively builds its home but doesn't place labels or judgements on it, experiencing it exactly as it is in its awareness. I think the same can be said for the car. We can build it and use thoughts as a tool (which is an incredible gift we have), but there is no need to taint your perceptions of it with thoughts

[Saarah]

@Huz88 ah thanks that's very helpful! I remember Alan Watts saying along the lines of how people think of nature as trees and birds but the human world such as houses and pavements are just as much nature I mean we built it from anything available by nature 

I just need to work on seeing it that way for real 

[Huz]

@Saarah very true! everything existing is a function of nature. We built it using the resources from nature and nature built us. Its unwise to not make the distinction because if we do we start to believe that humanity is somewhat superior to nature.

[Pav]

@Saarah @Huz88 Nature is another artificial label. Everything humans do or build is natural. There is no distinction between us and everything else. Nothing can be unnatural, the universe just is as is it.

[Naviy]

Not only "nest" or "car" are labels, but "built" is also a label. "No distinction" is a label. "Unnatural", "Natural", "Us", "Else", "Not", "To label", "Not to label", "Is", "Experience", "Reality", "Distorted", "Hearing", "Thought", etc. - all are labels.

It seems, that the only way  to see reality undistorted, is to look at all the experiences silently. And when automatic mind commentary happen, it is part of reality, look at it too. But this is the ultimate result. To actually practice this undistorted looking, I believe, we need to do the particular exercise Leo has mentioned in the video - look at the objects with conscious effort not to attach any, even the most subtle, mental commentaries to it.    

 

[Huz]

37 minutes ago, Naviy said:

Not only "nest" or "car" are labels, but "built" is also a label. "No distinction" is a label. "Unnatural", "Natural", "Us", "Else", "Not", "To label", "Not to label", "Is", "Experience", "Reality", "Distorted", "Hearing", "Thought", etc. - all are labels.

It seems, that the only way  to see reality undistorted, is to look at all the experiences silently. And when automatic mind commentary happen, it is part of reality, look at it too. But this is the ultimate result. To actually practice this undistorted looking, I believe, we need to do the particular exercise Leo has mentioned in the video - look at the objects with conscious effort not to attach any, even the most subtle, mental commentaries to it.    

 

Haha yeah that's what I was trying to get at. But language is a taboo thing on this matter.

I have currently trying the exercises and find it quite challenging looking at things without judging. But have been doing this exercise for about a couple of weeks and getting a lot better. Everything seems more calm when I observe. What about you have you done it? If so how has it effected you?

[Rodrigo]

@Huz88 You can think whatever you want. It will allways get you somewhere.

[30secs]

woah this month blowed my mind. I see external reality like an optical illusion, but much more complex, atleast now I have a little awareness seeing every situation being a concept, and being as it is. Yes , I understand we are still using language, analogy , talking this stuff, but all  this activity "observing how your ego destort reality" is a pseudo exercise that makes us understand what we actually mean=no need to label it

[Elzhi]

I think the value in Leo's talk about how your mind distorts reality is simply to draw your awareness to it and therefore help you be more conscious of the fact that you're often falsely interpreting reality through the lens of egoic judgement.

The problem is that you're overthinking and reading too deeply into his teachings and attempting to apply it to things that it has no business being associated with. It's as if you're deliberately trying to confuse yourself lol.

Don't overthink or try so hard to logicize it. Just think about how what Leo said can be applied practically to your day to day life. 

That goes for all esoteric teachings because people go too deeply into them and get lost in the rabbit hole. Just extract whatever value you can and move on