Nothingness is prior to consciousness or being

[Maya_0]

Existence and consciousness are flashes of Nothingness superimposed upon Nothingness. 

There are no beings, no worlds, no minds, no consciousness, no souls, no events, no time, no space, no Buddha, no Christ, no Self, no God. 

There is only not-'that' That-- the Great, Magnificent Void, Nothingness, the womb of all existence. 

Consciousness is neither present nor absent in Nothingness, for Nothingness is actually the root of consciousness. In truth, there is no such thing as consciousness, there is only Nothingness.

Consciousness is instantiated Nothingness, as is all of existence.

Anything that can be perceived or conceived should be viewed as not final, and therefore discarded. Time, space, form, emotions, thoughts, sensations, consciousness, all of these 'exsist' and therefore rely upon Nothingness. 

Sunyata, as Nothingness can be called in Buddhism, or Tao in Taoism, sustains everything, including consciousness. It is the vast, empty void of Non-existence that the Buddha calls Nirvana, meaning "extinction" of all 'being.' 

Nothingness is prior to our experiences, our senses, and consciousness, all of which are dependent upon a myriad of other factors to exist, such as a body, oxygen, sustenance, etc. Nothingness is what allows consciousness to occur because it allows all of 'being' to be.

[Inliytened1]

@Maya_0 Nothingness is not prior to Consciousness.  Consciousness is the fundamental substance of realty.

It is Absolute infinity.

That makes it formless.  Infinity includes everything....Everything...

EVERYTHING.

Everything includes nothingess which makes reality absolutely groundless.

When you become conscious of this in your direct experience that is enlightenment, as you become Infinity itself.

It will melt you.  Its indescribably beautiful and Divine.  And it is your true nature.

[Preetom]

@Maya_0 @Inliytened1

Hey guys, this issue is not worth arguing about at all! Notice that you both basically said the same thing but couldn't agree on the definition of Consciousness.

The problem is not with Truth, the problem is how Consciousness is defined.

There are teachers who make a clear distinction between Consciousness and Nothingness/Awareness. Their POV is valid, in the sense that here consciousness means the petty human, subjective consciousness. That is how science is still defining consciousness; as the subjective thoughts, feeling, sensations we have. This 'consciousness' is heavily depended upon brain, states, mood etc. Maya_0 debunked this petty consciousness which is a valid POV.

And then again, there are teachers like Rupert Spira who uses Consciousness/Awareness/Nothingness/Self/No-Self totally synonymously. In this context, Consciousness is never the object of experience(no matter how gross or subtle it is) and thus by default it becomes the ground of everything. From this POV we humans don't have Consciousness. We are happening inside Consciousness/nothingness. Or more nondually speaking, the Self/nothingness IS Consciousness. Inlightened1 supported this Absolute Consciousness which is a valid POV as well.

This whole debate starts without being clear about the definition in the first place and thus it doesn't go anywhere.

Now shake it out of your system 

Edited May 12, 2019 by Preetom

[Inliytened1]

@Preetom yeah true i took a deeper look i was focusing on the title of the post.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Inliytened1]

@Preetom you have a really good grasp of it.   Have you had glimpses or gotten close yet in meditation?

[cetus]

A few quotes from Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj:    

When the "I Am" goes into oblivion -that is the eternal state. No form. No Beingness. (same as before your birth)

Without reason or cause the consciousness spontainiously appears on the Absolute. -They are not two.

My true nature is that which is before the body and consciousness came into being.

Go back to your original state before this consciousness came upon you.

Throw away everthing as useless after this consciousness has come.

(Just a share for conversation)

[Preetom]

55 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Preetom you have a really good grasp of it.   Have you had glimpses or gotten close yet in meditation?

I find it impossible to talk about my ''enlightenment'' experiences. Yeah I can talk about bunch of insights, psychological, emotional breakthroughs, pet theories and what not; but none of that has anything to do with BEing. How do you talk about BEing? When I am consciously BEing, there is no movement or distinction. It's just a simple, absolute 'okayness', 'silence', ''oh yeah, right. it couldn't be more obvious''.

And another thing to clarify, I have no knowledge of God, being everybody, blasting through chakras, climbing up levels or whatever herculean theories that are out there while I am BEing. BEing is not bothered by that at all.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Preetom

[Leo Gura]

Consciousness is Nothingness.

And Nothingness is not other than Form.

Be careful not to over-emphasize Nothingness to the exclusion of Form. That is only half-enlightenment. You must go full-circle to realize that Form and Formlessness are totally identical. That is the highest realization.

[Leo Gura]

@Preetom You have no knowledge of God because you have not yet become conscious of God.

Like I keep saying, there's many layers to this thing. To realize that you are God is a very distinct realization and it's not the same as realizing Nothingness. Even though God of course is Nothingness. But that's not all there is to God.

There are many distinct realizations to have here. Doubt and dispute me all you like, but I'm telling you how it is.

Contemplate: What is God?

Psychedelics help a lot in this.

[Inliytened1]

@Leo Gura infinity  blows the mind

 

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Preetom]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Preetom You have no knowledge of God because you have not yet become conscious of God.

Like I keep saying, there's many layers to this thing. To realize that you are God is a very distinct realization and it's not the same as realizing Nothingness. Even though God of course is Nothingness.

Okay great.

But 'I' can never work my way to become conscious of this alien idea called God. In BEing what I am, there is cessation of all movements and agenda. 

So either God will someday just fall on my lap while BEing, or God is just another fancy idea. Either way, BEing remains ever the same and content without giving a fuck 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2019 by Preetom

[Conrad]

5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Consciousness is Nothingness.

And Nothingness is not other than Form.

Be careful not to over-emphasize Nothingness to the exclusion of Form. That is only half-enlightenment. You must go full-circle to realize that Form and Formlessness are totally identical. That is the highest realization.

?

 

[Preetom]

31 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

A few quotes from Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj:    

When the "I Am" goes into oblivion -that is the eternal state. No form. No Beingness. (same as before your birth)

Without reason or cause the consciousness spontainiously appears on the Absolute. -They are not two.

My true nature is that which is before the body and consciousness came into being.

Go back to your original state before this consciousness came upon you.

Throw away everthing as useless after this consciousness has come.

(Just a share for conversation)

Pure gold

Still try to read Nisargadatta's I AM pointers collected by Pradeep Apte everyday. The reading session itself feels like BEing session

 

 

 

[Inliytened1]

@Preetom it will fall on your lap.  And the day it does you will be on your knees saying "oh my god" over and over and over and over while in total and complete divine bliss.

Edited May 12, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Preetom]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

There are many distinct realizations to have here. Doubt and dispute me all you like, but I'm telling you how it is.

Contemplate: What is God?

Psychedelics help a lot in this.

I have nothing against you. You teach what you encounter. Everyone knows what they encounter.

That's the issue here Leo. BEing feels like at home and natural while contemplation, thinking etc on any subject(reality, god, time, space, causality etc) feels alien, tiresome and utterly morbid compared to BEing.

Now you might think I'm just a thick skulled pig who has no interest in the mystery of Reality. But BEing feels complete for me. That's where the honey is. All I could ever want lies there. That is what is really alive, sentient. Let me settle in my home first.

Then I can contemplate on God or whatever aspect or level of Reality if I still feel such an urge. But right now, I don't feel such inclination. And I'm not arguing about my experience of BEing as the absolute or semi absolute or any of that. BEing has no concern about any of that

Take care

Edited May 12, 2019 by Preetom

[Preetom]

25 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Preetom it will fall on your lap.  And the day it does you will be on your knees saying "oh my god" over and over and over and over while in total and complete divine bliss.

That ''oh my god'' factor happens even if you just ruminate about the significance of such a discovery about BEing.

There is this thing called BEing. Right now. Totally complete. You can't improve on it even a bit. Which absolutely knows nothing other than itself. A place completely devoid of mystery, confusion, movement, stages or any such category. It's not about being EVERYTHING. It's a place where even the notion of EVERYTHIING or NOTHING ceases as they are all alien concepts. It is literally the completion. Right here and right now. The heart, the sentience, the only touch of aliveness. 

And yet the typical human life and it's idiosyncratic dramas and issues are just complete reverse of that. We all are looking at it right now right in it's face, and yet mistake it as something else.

hell yeah oh my god. I dare you to find another more grotesque distinction than that.

Hell yeah oh my god

Edited May 12, 2019 by Preetom

[Inliytened1]

@Preetom darn straight

[Leo Gura]

@Preetom Lol

It's not an alien idea.

YOU ARE GOD!

YOU!

YOU!

YOU!

Try some LSD and you'll get it. It doesn't have to be hard. We have the tools to make this process easy. They're worth using.

[Jack Walter Leon]

33 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Preetom Lol

It's not an alien idea.

YOU ARE GOD!

YOU!

YOU!

YOU!

Try some LSD and you'll get it. It doesn't have to be hard. We have the tools to make this process easy. They're worth using.

What about people like Adolf Hitler? Are they god, too? Am I god, too? I live in Germany and if I tell people Hitler is God I will go to prison lol

[David Hammond]

12 minutes ago, Jack Walter Leon said:

What about people like Adolf Hitler? Are they god, too? Am I god, too? I live in Germany and if I tell people Hitler is God I will go to prison lol

You've got to climb out of this fundamentalist Christian outlook of what you think the ultimate reality is. The word "God" is not really a good word to use unless you use it to help you see where you're making mistakes.