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[now is forever]

5 hours ago, mandyjw said:

You know what I am now? A bridge. I can sit through a church service and smile instead of fuming like I would even when I was still a Christian. I already had a nondual belief in God brewing as a kid. I decided that I would visualize him not as a man but as a lion. I got the idea from C.S.Lewis, and I thought Jesus could be someone else in a different world.

Love doesn't burn bridges it builds them, it doesn't cut cords, it ties them. You say yourself, we have to integrate nonduality, all religions, science, philosophy, and technology, political science, and self help. What else are we doing here? We're a melting pot! A bridge!

yes but it’s not about dreaming up bridges, it’s about building them.

just because you can dream a bridge doesn’t bring you to the other side of the water.

[Shin]

1 minute ago, now is forever said:

yes but it’s not about dreaming up bridges, it’s about building them.

just because you can dream a bridge doesn’t bring you to the other side of the water.

You're almost a philosopher

Aren't you ?

[now is forever]

3 minutes ago, Shin said:

You're almost a philosopher

Aren't you ?

everything you want! 

[Shin]

11 minutes ago, now is forever said:

everything you want! 

For your sake

I hope you don't mean it

[Truth Addict]

3 hours ago, now is forever said:

yes but it’s not about dreaming up bridges, it’s about building them.

just because you can dream a bridge doesn’t bring you to the other side of the water.

If dreams are what makes you happy, would you let anyone steal that joy from you?

Although I see what you mean. You want her to actualise her dreams, and that's great, but not obligatory.

Happiness is what everyone wants. Whatever delivers it to them is the best thing to do.

It's not about neither dreaming bridges, nor building them. It's not about anything.

Perhaps the building process is a foregone conclusion. Perhaps the dream is reality.

Do what makes your soul shine.

?

Edited May 27, 2019 by Truth Addict

[mandyjw]

@Shin She's a pessimist, and she doesn't like the outfit I'm wearing just now, so she's being mean about it instead of seeing me for me. Otherwise, she could be part of the bridge. 

Last night I started having powerful experiences again, it must have been the meditation. I started to wake up with this intense intoxicating feeling of love, a physical feeling in my heart and I had a battle within myself of whether or not to make it conscious in this world and wake up, the pull of sleep was so strong. I got out of bed and couldn't walk straight. I felt like I was being pulled in two, trying to mediate between two worlds. Then I had a battle of my shadow self, a part of me wanted to be superior and a part of me wanted to be kind. I watched it closely, and tried to decide which part of me was trying to survive and I knew the answer was both, they both were a part of me that wanted to survive but I just watched the battle. Then I gave in to superiority for just a moment, and after that I was able to be kindness. 

A mediator has to have great love or else she will be torn in two.  Maybe I love only to survive. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by mandyjw

[whoareyou]

@mandyjw You are not understanding the difference between direct experience and a belief. And you are using "love" to justify your attachment to a particular religion. Non-duality is not about beliefs, but exact opposite - a direct experience. As much as you want it to be, non-duality is not compatible with religion.

If fact, if non-duality is not applied correctly, it can easily turn into a religion.

Before you write another response, contemplate the following:

1) What is a direct experience?

2) What is a belief?

3) What is the difference between direct experience and belief?

4) What makes something a religion? How was religion created?

5) What is the difference between non-duality and religion?

6) Are you willing to let go of your attachments to Christianity, in pursuit of truth?

[Truth Addict]

@whoareyou

I don't want to engage in discussions. I'll just suggest the same thing you suggested for Mandy.

Contemplate:

How are direct experience and belief are the same?

Keep in mind that memories are not direct experience, even if you experienced something personally.

Direct experience is the present moment, it has no opposite. It's nondual.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Bill W]

There is a lot of reference to direct experience. One poster was posing the question, what is the difference between direct experience and a belief?

Direct experience is sometimes seen as the truth I guess? Or something beyond belief?

I don't see it this way necessarily.

I would say that many, many direct experiences are possibly also a belief. It would be interesting to see who says they have had a direct experience that is not a belief.

I am thinking that much direct experience still involves the person making an interpretation about what this direct experience means. The interpretation means they are coming to a conclusion via a belief. There is a belief that this direct experience means.... blah, blah, blah or whatever you choose the direct experience to mean.

Direct experience of having your hand burned by scolding water. Not a belief. A direct experience independent of belief.

Person saying they have had an awakening.... This is a belief and a direct experience. 

[mandyjw]

@whoareyou I am not the things I have knowledge about or the skills that I have worked to acquire. Yet I am using them, I am using my ability to think and write to you, and I use the abilities I worked hard to learn to make money and provide for myself. Just because I know that I am not those things doesn't mean that I can't use them for good, or for my own survival, or to communicate with others. The truth cannot be spoken and yet it must be, as Leo says.

I feel like a lot of people need me to let go of my religion because they find it disgusting. You don't know the inner battle I have already fought within myself, and the disgust I went through with my own religion. 

I can only say that forgiveness and integration feels good. It only happens when we let go. We have to let go of both the things we cling to and the things that disgust us. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by mandyjw

[now is forever]

5 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

If dreams are what makes you happy, would you let anyone steal that joy from you?

Although I see what you mean. You want her to actualise her dreams, and that's great, but not obligatory.

Happiness is what everyone wants. Whatever delivers it to them is the best thing to do.

It's not about neither dreaming bridges, nor building them. It's not about anything.

Perhaps the building process is a foregone conclusion. Perhaps the dream is reality.

Do what makes your soul shine.

?

no of course i don’t let anyone steal my dreams. no one can steal them. the thoughts are free (very nice german poem and song). but it’s not only about freedom of thoughts here as constant manipulation is not building bridges it’s only an ego survival game if only used to take one selfie after the other on the bridge and then returning only to the point we left of - what point has the bridge?

say cheese ? 

Edited May 27, 2019 by now is forever

[whoareyou]

@Truth Addict You are overthinking it. Direct experience is the only way to know the truth. Ironically enough, the beliefs that many religious/spiritual folks hold, is what keeps them from directly experiencing the truth. This is what I meant, keep it simple.

@mandyjw You have used the word "disgusting" twice already and that is your own projection. I don't feel any "disgust". I treat your "religion" just like any other belief system out there. I could care less weather it's Christianity, New Age, or Scientific Materialism - there is very little difference and all are part of the same issue.

As LEO pointed out, the ego creates a lot of justifications and excuses, to not let go of attachments. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by whoareyou

[Bill W]

11 minutes ago, whoareyou said:

@Truth Addict You are overthinking it. Direct experience is the only way to know the truth. 

I'm not disagreeing with this but the thing that interests me is that surely a lot of direct experience still relies on an interpretation being made by the person having the direct experience. The person having the direct experience will choose what that direct experience actually means. So it's fascinating to me how people having direct experience account for personal bias when formulating the 'truth' from that direct experience. 

[whoareyou]

14 minutes ago, Bill W said:

I'm not disagreeing with this but the thing that interests me is that surely a lot of direct experience still relies on an interpretation being made by the person having the direct experience. The person having the direct experience will choose what that direct experience actually means. So it's fascinating to me how people having direct experience account for personal bias when formulating the 'truth' from that direct experience. 

I agree with you, this is why I said that the religious beliefs would have to be dropped, as they get in the way of directly experiencing the truth. The personal bias and interpretation would come in from existing beliefs and the truth would not be known.

The "truth" can only be pointed at. And if communicated at all, should be as direct as it possibly can be.

 

Edited May 27, 2019 by whoareyou

[jbram2002]

@whoareyou I see a lot of resistance to religious ideology from what you're saying, although I understand my perception is limited. One question I had to ponder for several years was this: "What is the difference between faith and religion?"

Even in a highly religious context, I was taught that faith was something beyond religion. Faith is, according to the Bible, "the substance of things hoped for, and the evidence of things not seen*." Faith can aid us in getting closer to the truth. Yes, you have to be willing to be wrong, but that doesn't mean that you have to lose faith.

This is far different from the religion you're discussing, in my opinion. Religion is a set of rules and structure. Those get in the way of truth, while faith enhances the journey, in my opinion. I believe your discussions are absolutely valid when looking at the close-minded structure of religion. But I also think that faith is something quite different from what you're talking about. I see faith in the few statements from you I've read. You have faith in the Truth, for example. I believe that having Faith in something is extremely useful, and maybe even important.

* - side note: I always had a hard time with this verse as a kid. I didn't understand it at all. How could a hope have substance? How could something that isn't physically there have substance? This is one of many amazing nondual statements in the Bible, in my opinion, and only once I started looking into the difference between faith and religion was I able to actually grasp the concepts behind this verse.

[Pateedm]

On 5/15/2019 at 7:47 AM, Leo Gura said:

"Understanding Nothingness"

@Leo Gura Are you still planning on releasing this video in the near future? Seems like a juicy topic 

[Leo Gura]

@Pateedm It's been released.

[Pateedm]

22 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Pateedm It's been released.

@Leo Gura That's weird, I actually can't seem to find the video at all. 

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, Pateedm said:

@Leo Gura That's weird, I actually can't seem to find the video at all. 

Exactly.

Now you understand nothing

[Rilles]

23 minutes ago, Pateedm said:

@Leo Gura That's weird, I actually can't seem to find the video at all. 

Ive seen it. Im one of the few. Now Im fully Enlightened. *heavenly choir plays*