Can right wing politics even be high cosciousness

[ValiantSalvatore]

America is mainly orange. IMO. I don't intend to let it look or perceive it as some "redneck" country. In case my post came across like that.

[CreamCat]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Bro, that's old news. All of that is Trumps lies. It's well documented that Trump inhereted and lost over $400 million.

His net worth numbers are pure lies. Which is why he refuses to release his tax returns. They will show that he loses tons of money.

What Trump does is get large loans and wastes them while creating a public image of having used them to make money. He manipulates the system to get more and more loans. So he's always playing with other people's money.

It's a classic scam strategy. Which is why every US bank refuses to lend him money. Which is why he had go to Russia for loans. And the Russians are corrupt at fuck. Russia is a mafia state. They use him to launder billions of dollars out of Russia and into real estate.

That's how real business is done son. This is no joke. The Russians don't fuck around. They are stone-cold raqueteers, crafty as the devil. Way craftier than Trump. He is their pawn.

That's a very crafty story. I like it.

[mandyjw]

33 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

America is mainly orange. IMO. I don't intend to let it look or perceive it as some "redneck" country. In case my post came across like that.

Yes, I live in redneck country so I understand that part of the US quite well. Rednecks, rural America is struggling because they badly want to move to stage orange but other people (like Trump) got here first and they can't skip ahead to green or see that voting green would help them out most. So many of the blue collar jobs are going, going, gone. 

I really believe that they thought Trump would give them what they wanted, from the spiral dynamics perspective, that he would help them get through stage orange. 

I think stage yellow and stage turquoise are responsible for figuring out how to reach blue and orange where they are. We have so much stress and limitations on "owning" things. The minimalist movement is huge. Owning things is not freedom. Where I live there is a lot of property that is privately owned that should be parks. It's ridiculous. People are liable for something bad happening to someone there, so they can't give people permission to use or enjoy the property. If you have money, if you have a business, you can be sued. That's not freedom at all.

The native Americans thought owning land was absurd. It truly is absurd.

In the end it doesn't matter at all what stage you're at or what political party you vote for. If we cannot love and meet people where they are we will only do harm and make things worse. 

There are highly conscious right wing people. Check out Charlie Munger. Would Warren Buffett be who he is without him? 

 

 

[ValiantSalvatore]

3 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

The minimalist movement is huge. Owning things is not freedom. Where I live there is a lot of property that is privately owned that should be parks. It's ridiculous. People are liable for something bad happening to someone there, so they can't give people permission to use or enjoy the property. If you have money, if you have a business, you can be sued. That's not freedom at all.

That is a great insight. 
 

4 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

In the end it doesn't matter at all what stage you're at or what political party you vote for. If we cannot love and meet people where they are we will only do harm and make things worse. 

No, it does matter otherwise you can't see the perspective or conversate appropriately. I used to think voting in a country which forces democracy is hypocritical in a sense. I enjoyed that perspective, since forcing people to vote in a country which is ruled by people is hypocritical. It would be another form or enforcing guilt induced behavior or oppressing others...
 

14 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Yes, I live in redneck country so I understand that part of the US quite well. Rednecks, rural America is struggling because they badly want to move to stage orange but other people (like Trump) got here first and they can't skip ahead to green or see that voting green would help them out most. So many of the blue collar jobs are going, going, gone. 

I really believe that they thought Trump would give them what they wanted, from the spiral dynamics perspective, that he would help them get through stage orange. 

How can such a situation ever be improved I never understand it besides, generating some source of income.

12 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

There are highly conscious right wing people. Check out Charlie Munger. Would Warren Buffett be who he is without him?

Ohhhh I'll definitely buy books about Warren Buffet in the future. Rather in a given time.

[mandyjw]

3 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

 

How can such a situation ever be improved I never understand it besides, generating some source of income.

 

That's something I think about a lot. One thing about rural America is that those community tribe values don't get let go of. This is because a smaller community, especially in a poor area just can't let go of the community thing. They get forgotten about in a city really quickly. I don't think a rural area ever truly can or would embrace orange. They are too tribe like, too close knit and too small to every deny that fact. 

I just went to the funeral today for someone who did odd jobs, he choked on his food while hauling scrap metal and crashed his truck and died. No life insurance, leaves behind a wife (my friend) and kid. The community will raise that child for him. He worked hard and was well loved. Yeah sure, he was an asshole Republican. Who cares? He was part of a community. When someone's house burns down and they don't have insurance they are flooded with gifts and donations. People in the community give from their hearts, to people they know and love in person. They don't like writing a check out to the IRS. That doesn't mean that they aren't giving. 

When you have support like that from a community, you don't need to embody stage orange as much. 

[kieranperez]

34 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Yes, I live in redneck country so I understand that part of the US quite well. Rednecks, rural America is struggling because they badly want to move to stage orange but other people (like Trump) got here first and they can't skip ahead to green or see that voting green would help them out most. So many of the blue collar jobs are going, going, gone. 

I really believe that they thought Trump would give them what they wanted, from the spiral dynamics perspective, that he would help them get through stage orange. 

 

Just from what you see in your own area, despite the potential extreme end of the Blue rednecks there that are still riding Trump for his indulgence in racism and hate speech and what not, do you think (outside of what I just described) that a lot of them feel hurt or betrayed by him? I mean, obviously they’re hurt because of him. What I’m asking though is, do you feel or see that they recognize and admit that? 

Just curious what it’s like there since I live in San Francisco so it’s hard for me to really soak into the “true American Stage Blue” perspective other than just the erroneous and obvious example we see on the news and social media. 

[ValiantSalvatore]

57 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

That's something I think about a lot. One thing about rural America is that those community tribe values don't get let go of. This is because a smaller community, especially in a poor area just can't let go of the community thing. They get forgotten about in a city really quickly. I don't think a rural area ever truly can or would embrace orange. They are too tribe like, too close knit and too small to every deny that fact. 

I just went to the funeral today for someone who did odd jobs, he choked on his food while hauling scrap metal and crashed his truck and died. No life insurance, leaves behind a wife (my friend) and kid. The community will raise that child for him. He worked hard and was well loved. Yeah sure, he was an asshole Republican. Who cares? He was part of a community. When someone's house burns down and they don't have insurance they are flooded with gifts and donations. People in the community give from their hearts, to people they know and love in person. They don't like writing a check out to the IRS. That doesn't mean that they aren't giving. 

When you have support like that from a community, you don't need to embody stage orange as much. 

That is very sad to hear and very unfortunate.... my condolences I hope this comes not across fake. I am also losing a family member.

The whole thing with the community for example if you compare it with China the family is seen as their social security, at one point it was transferred to companies since it is so ingrained in Chinese culture that, the family takes care of themselves. That when one's parents retire that you take them into your home and care for them, not leave them alone like the west does it or send them to residencies for the old. Now companies adopted that structure if I recall correctly, so they provide them with insurances and are the extended family. Since they value family and community so much. That is their system. I never meet so many compassionate people. So, that would even be a solution from a more stage orange perspective for the situation above. All of this stemmed from their history, with boys being the main value provider and having to take care of the family, they were an asset. When girls married they were part of their husbands family, not any more of their old family. So a daughter was often seen as a burden and they did infanticide. But there is more this is just an overall description or a big picture. I can't recall more.

I truly hope this does not sound too callous. I can't imagine the pain of your friend...

 

[mandyjw]

7 hours ago, kieranperez said:

Just from what you see in your own area, despite the potential extreme end of the Blue rednecks there that are still riding Trump for his indulgence in racism and hate speech and what not, do you think (outside of what I just described) that a lot of them feel hurt or betrayed by him? I mean, obviously they’re hurt because of him. What I’m asking though is, do you feel or see that they recognize and admit that? 

Just curious what it’s like there since I live in San Francisco so it’s hard for me to really soak into the “true American Stage Blue” perspective other than just the erroneous and obvious example we see on the news and social media. 

I see a lot of different reactions. The primary elections here went to Cruz and Bernie, so everyone hated the candidates. A lot of people wouldn't vote for either. There is also a big mistrust for politicians in general. Some people are disappointed but he hasn't made a big enough mess for them to notice. The tax cut is going to come back to bite us, but it's not going to hurt for a little while. The ones who really supported him with the stickers and T-shirts are still just as happy with him. They love having someone who can talk on a level that that they can understand. Hillary Clinton was too proud to understand how important that was. 

I have seen some of the more intelligent, loyal Republicans turn away from the party. Trump has irreparably damaged the Republican party. Before, the party stood for Evangelical and traditional values. Trump has made a mockery of it. 

@ValiantSalvatore There are a lot of problems with using community as a safety net, but there are just as many with using government as a safety net too. 

[ValiantSalvatore]

@mandyjw It's not the government it would be an independent entity, a cooperation. That is responsible for security, when workers retire, or have accidents. So, you would have the community and an extended community. 

That's the whole point of my argument to not rely on the goverment since it get's a bad rep often.