Self-inquiry Process And Progress

[cle103]

Hey guys, 

I have now been on this enlightenment journey for about a month (meditating for a year, seriously meditating for three month). As I found the feedback you guys give really helpful I wanted to share my current progress with you. Currently I meditate twice a day. 30 minutes in the morning (do nothing) and one hour in the evening (self-inquiry).

Now here is my typical process (self-inquiry):

I sit down and close my eyes. I take a couple minutes to calm down and relax. I then try to focus my mind which mostly works quite well.

After that my inquiry begins. I start by asking myself: 

Who is sitting here? Me.

Who is me? Well I am. The whole of it. The body.

Am I the body? Well I have no control over most stuff that goes on so... no not really (shortened answer)

Ok, am I these thoughts? Hell no I have no control over them at all but I perceive them.

Am I this constantly talking voice? No, but I perceive it and hear it.

Interesting. Who is perceiving it? Well, me of course.

So, who am I then? Am I the brain? Maybe. But definetely not the whole of it.

Am I the mind? That could be. But who is perceiving this reality? The mind feels like a tool. And sometimes it just runs wild. No, I am not the mind. But maybe I am this "perceiving thing". Where is it, where am I? Hmm, it feels like I am somewhere in my head. But who is perceiving this answer? -Silence- at this point I try to feel into the silence but it feels like I get stuck. As I hear closer I can perceive a kind of sough. It kinda sounds like a old TV but not so intruding. Interesting. Nothing happens. Nothing changes. I then loose focus. I try again. Over and over for one hour (and a couple weeks in total).

So what do you guys think? Can you spot any traps I ran into? Any mistakes I am making? Next steps? ANY feedback is much appreciated. Thanks 

[Huz]

I think first bring yourself to a stage of absolutely not knowing who the fuck your are using the aid of thought and rationality to create a genuine sense of wonder. After you get that conscious traction of not knowing - meditate on the questions above.

Also, don't stop the inquiry outside your sit. Ask these questions and look for answers everywhere you go. Try to spend your day being as mindful as possible in the activities you do. I find when I just be mindful of certain sights, without thought, I get a "feeling" that I am not an entity located in the field of awareness and the sense of self dissolves very very momentary. So for example when you get in your car, don't just get in and drive. Before you open the door spend 30secs to a minute being mindful of the present moment. Keep doing this throughout the day. 

These videos by Shinzen Young are also very good for this as well! I advice you watch them

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHUajtPXPDw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2SE5O9tjqMo

Edited April 23, 2016 by Huz88

[cle103]

@Huz88

Thanks alot for your answer! Could you elaborate on what you mean by "...using the aid of thought and rationality to create a genuine sense of wonder. After you get that conscious traction of not knowing"? 

[Azrael]

2 hours ago, cle103 said:

So what do you guys think? Can you spot any traps I ran into? Any mistakes I am making? Next steps? ANY feedback is much appreciated. Thanks 

Keep on. You basically grow your awareness with self-inquiry or "Do Nothing" and this by definition will present you new perspectives on this as you go on. Try to be that notion that experiences this moment, independent of what you are experiencing. Whether your thoughts come up, vision comes up, emotions - there is a notion that constantly lets these things appear. You can feel it when you ask "Who am I?" and just be there for a moment.

Investigate that. That what is always there.

[Nameless]

cle103,

glad you have taken up your journey!

During meditation have you tried counting or following your breath? 

Once the mind is quiet enough and thoughts are just figurative leaves floating past you - then ask who am I?

Do not answer your inquiry...it is not a pass or fail question...Nor an intellectual query. 

Abide in the non answer...

 

[cetus]

"You can feel it when you ask "Who am I?" and just be there for a moment."   I just followed that. It's kind of a silent "hang time", suspended just before the mind gets a chance to jump back in. Is it like that?

[Azrael]

8 hours ago, cetus56 said:

"You can feel it when you ask "Who am I?" and just be there for a moment."   I just followed that. It's kind of a silent "hang time", suspended just before the mind gets a chance to jump back in. Is it like that?

You are still looking at the colorful painting in the picture to find its white canvas. Its even there when the mind talks, when you are completely distracted, in fear, love, high or even dead-tired. Look for a notion that is there in all activities. What stays the same when all of your senses (including thoughts and feelings) change? What is always there and let's all these "colorful manifestations of reality" arise in every moment?

Just compare for some time a lot of different moments and look for that. It takes some awareness to see it, but you can definitely develop that.

[cle103]

@Nameless Interesting. Usually when I come to the point where I ask myself "who am I?" I try to feel into myself as there is no answer coming up but to this point I was not able to perceive any difference at all. Subsequently my mind kicks back in and I get lost for a moment. After that I start all over again. 

[cetus]

2 hours ago, Arik said:

You are still looking at the colorful painting in the picture to find its white canvas. Its even there when the mind talks, when you are completely distracted, in fear, love, high or even dead-tired. Look for a notion that is there in all activities. What stays the same when all of your senses (including thoughts and feelings) change? What is always there and let's all these "colorful manifestations of reality" arise in every moment?

Just compare for some time a lot of different moments and look for that. It takes some awareness to see it, but you can definitely develop that.

@Arik I think what you may be referring to, I call "The silent witness"?

[Azrael]

2 minutes ago, cetus56 said:

I think what you may be referring to, I call "The silent witness"?

And I think we have an understanding.

[cetus]

2 minutes ago, Arik said:

And I think we have an understanding.

@Arik I was thinking about all this last night. It seems to me that mind is always going to be there. It's the operating system for reality. The monkey mind can be bought under control. But mind and a sense of self will always exist to some extent. When I meditate, at first I'm in mind, than I get up and leave the mind behind (so to speak). I move into another room. Mind is always there, but it's sitting in a different room than where pure presence is sitting. I'm not sure if that's a great practice, but for now that's what I do. I get up and leave minds company. I'm sure there is a slow integration happening  where that silent witness becomes even more prevalent even when I'm with mind. If, just "if" we are supposed to have minds, could there not be a perfect balance of mind and pure awareness working together in harmony? Think of all the good things that mind has to offer. It adds "life" to the raw experience in so many special ways.

 

[Naviy]

@cetus56

You do not leave the mind. There is no mind outside of particular experiences that you call "mind". Mind is not some objective thing that exists when you do not look at it.

Both being in the mind and being out of the mind are equal experiences. Both are images on the screen. Whether you see the mind activity or "another room", in both cases you look at the same screen, which shows different images, but you pay attention to the images on the screen, not to the screen itself. When you are totally lost in the mind or totally aware - both of these states are images on the screen. They consist of the screen, and the screen includes both of them.

It does not matter what the screen shows (it shows experiences, what states you are in, how concentrated or lost in mind you are, etc.) - anything that can ever appear, appears on the screen and ultimately is the screen. Even the attention itself is the image on the screen.

No matter what you are looking at - you are always looking at the screen, which shows different images, but you think that you see different separate independed images.

Images do not exist by themselves, but the screen exists. Examples of images - "Mindful state", "A thought that mind exists", "Light", "Hearing", "Emotions", "Thinking process", "I am", "A cat", etc.

(Screen - Consciousness, Self, Emptiness, Truth)

You cannot experience a thing. Experience is the thing. And a thing is experience. And what does experience consist of? Where does experience happen?

What is the essential particular difference between experience and no experience? Don't experience and no-experience have the same nature? Are they different, separate from each other? What makes the difference?

++

"looking", "you" - all are images on the screen too. The screen includes what you call "you" and the looking process (moving of attention, the change of experiences).

So, ultimately, it's not like that there is You that is looking at the screen. The screen includes such thing as attention or looking. You are the screen (because "you" is an image showed on the screen). Absence of you is the screen also (blank space on the screen). There is only screen - emptiness, consciousness.

Edited April 24, 2016 by Naviy

[Huz]

@cle103  I mean just counter argue "the voice" in your head who tells you who you are when you ask those questions. But of course its just your voice talking to the voice, but for me it has created a genuine sense of wonder of what you are

[cetus]

@Naviy Before I started meditation, "the screen" was always full of content, overlaid with thoughts and perceptions. Now through meditation the screen is experienced as blank, it's pure state. What a stark difference. In daily life there needs to be some amount of content (mind) on that screen to interact with others and be productive. In meditation the screen becomes blank again of all content. I see the mind as a tool now. When the work is done, I put the tools down and the screen becomes empty again.