If Leo has enough money to retire why...

[Preetom]

20 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@Preetom  @Leo Gura I think the highest love is sacrificing one's own peace for others. I guess I still believe in Jesus all along. 

This statement shows lack of scrutiny. 

There is no such thing as sacrificing ones own peace for others.

In the truth of absolute non dual self love, there is no place for otherness.

Could Jesus refrain from sacrificing his own peace for others? NO!! That would make him miserable.

Sacrificing his 'peace' was the best prediction of his own happiness and he couldn't help but follow that.

Could mother Teresa stop her benevolent acts? No. She had to do it for her happiness or else she would be miserable.

Could Hitler stop his carnage? No! Same case here.

The appearance is oceans apart but the dynamic is the same.

In this sense, everyone is practicing spiriruality, everyone is searching for god; because everyone cant help but follow what they consider as the best prediction of happiness for them

Edited May 8, 2019 by Preetom

[Shin]

The only solution is to kill yourself before anyone know you.

If you really need to be sure, before enlightenment !

 

8 minutes ago, Preetom said:

 

[Lister]

6 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@SerotoninluvBecause a true shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. He doesn't have to give his literal life but he still has to give away his life at the same time.@Leo Gura You're already enlightened, you're accidentally already a Christ. 

Are you kidding me? The only reason a shepherd is even in his job is because he needs to earn a living from them.

Go vegan! 

[Forestluv]

12 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@SerotoninluvBecause a true shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. He doesn't have to give his literal life but he still has to give away his life at the same time.

To me, martyrdom can be a beautiful expression of love, yet I don't see how martyrdom is a requirement to reach such deep levels of love. To me, it can be sufficient yet not required. It is one of many expressions of deep love. Some of the deepest expressions of love I've seen and experienced have not involved martyrdom.

[Inliytened1]

@Preetom Ahh Preetom - With all due respect you do have some work to do on your humility.

Your point is well taken here - but your forgetting one thing - Infinite possibliity.

 

"There is no such thing as sacrificing ones own peace for others" _ There is no such thing as No such thing, remember?

In the truth of absolute non dual self love, there is no place for otherness. - There IS a place for otherness, that's what infinity is.

Could Jesus refrain from sacrificing his own peace for others? NO!! That would make him miserable.  Bit he could have - it's happening everyday.

Could mother Teresa stop her benevolent acts? No. She had to do it for her happiness or else she would be miserable. - That's happening everyday too.

Could Hitler stop his carnage? No! Same case here. - Yes he could, if he took some 5-MEO.

 
 

[Preetom]

14 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Preetom  @Leo Gura

I find the concept of a permanent non-dual state impossible without physical death - hence I present that 3rd way of looking at it.  Don't call it "enlightenment" if you choose not to.  Call it very conscious

thats exactly my point. Call it higher consciousness or development or whatever, but not enlightenment.

A person(yet not enlightened) who has done 1000 5 meo dmt trips, 10000 hours of metitation etc is exactly as far from Enlightenment as the spiritual noob who never even heard about this stuff before.

Just like 1900990099886544 is as far from infinity as 0 is.

Enlightenment means done. 

Everything else that happens is human/superhuman/subhuman level development. But that doesn't develop or deter enlightenment.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Preetom

[Inliytened1]

@Preetom That's all correct IMO, but then how can you say Leo is not enlightened when he has stated he has had non-dual experiences?

You seem to be chasing yourself into a corner here...

[Lister]

4 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Enlightenment means done. 

You have built a huge story about enlightenment based off of the back of this baseless assertion. 

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Lister

[Preetom]

19 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

@Preetom That's all correct IMO, but then how can you say Leo is not enlightened when he has stated he has had non-dual experiences?

 

A non dual experience is just that: a non dual experience. As opposed to a dual experience.

But has the illusion of separate self completely vanished? When the illusion is really popped, there is no 'acting' enlightened anymore. It is enlightenment period.

And not many people are really enlightened by that standard.

Anyway i'll just stop here. As I've seen many times "talks about the absolute" either devolves into a useless mire of language relativism as it is pointed out "there is no such thing as no such thing" or language starts getting deconstructed and gets hollow of meaning and thus gets misleading. I personally find this very sour and unfulfilling. A sort of distaste towards entire domain of knowledge.

Pardon my jokes. Not intended to single anyone out or belittle anyone 

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Preetom

[Preetom]

9 minutes ago, Lister said:

You have built a huge story about enlightenment based off of the back of this baseless assertion. 

 

If enlightenment didnt have an element of finality, it wouldnt be worth shit.

It would just be another day at the office with another version of chasing something no different than chasing money, pussy, happiness, security etc.

[mandyjw]

23 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

To me, martyrdom can be a beautiful expression of love, yet I don't see how martyrdom is a requirement to reach such deep levels of love. To me, it can be sufficient yet not required. It is one of many expressions of deep love. Some of the deepest expressions of love I've seen and experienced have not involved martyrdom.

For sure. love is just giving yourself up to you, giving yourself up to others because they are you and accepting and being courageous enough to face what that means. Hopefully the world is conscious enough to not crucify Jesus this time. 

[Inliytened1]

@Preetom

But has the illusion of separate self completely vanished? When the illusion is really popped, there is no 'acting' enlightened anymore. It is enlightenment period.

--That's death of the physical body dude.

 

Or let me make that clearer - that IS a non-dual experience.  A PERMANENT state of that is physical death.

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by Inliytened1

[mandyjw]

31 minutes ago, Lister said:

Are you kidding me? The only reason a shepherd is even in his job is because he needs to earn a living from them.

Go vegan! 

Why would a shepherd lay down his life for his sheep? Because he knows that the sheep are him. That's why Jesus said to eat his body and drink his blood. Non-duality. There's no job, there's no living, there's no earning, there's no sacrifice, there's no slaughter, there's no life, there's no death. 

@Preetom My white whale is enlightening other people. Yours is enlightening yourself. Same goddamn whale. 

Edited May 8, 2019 by mandyjw

[Javfly33]

45 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Even if you stay in a cave, people will come to kiss your feet and worship you.

Ramana Maharshi lived in a cave. He had thousands of followers coming to kissing his ass.

It's actually not so easy to be a recluse. You will become famous just for being a recluse.

So it's not so simple.

Better, that way they can bring me fresh food 

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

For sure. love is just giving yourself up to you, giving yourself up to others because they are you and accepting and being courageous enough to face what that means. Hopefully the world is conscious enough to not crucify Jesus this time. 

That sounds like an expression of love. It just feels limited to me - like a story of what love is. Yet that's just my sense. I'm still exploring various dynamics of love.

[Lister]

1 minute ago, mandyjw said:

Why would a shepherd lay down his life for his sheep? Because he knows that the sheep are him. That's why Jesus said to eat his body and drink his blood. Non-duality. There's no job, there's no living, there's no earning, there's no sacrifice, there's no slaughter, there'n no life, there's no death. 

@Preetom My white whale is enlightening other people. Yours is enlightening yourself. Same goddamn whale. 

Don't take me seriously at the moment. I think I'm going through something odd. 

[mandyjw]

Just now, Serotoninluv said:

That sounds like an expression of love. It just feels limited to me. Yet that's just my sense. I'm still exploring various dynamics of love.

Love is surrender. Surrender feels like a limit, when really it is ultimate freedom in disguise. 

[Shin]

8 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

For sure. love is just giving yourself up to you, giving yourself up to others because they are you and accepting and being courageous enough to face what that means. Hopefully the world is conscious enough to not crucify Jesus this time. 

 

Stage orange will engage world class assassins to kill him.

It will happen later than for Jesus, but he will be assassinated.
As long as the majority of the world is blue and orange he will be killed.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Shin

[mandyjw]

14 minutes ago, Preetom said:

If enlightenment didnt have an element of finality, it wouldnt be worth shit.

It would just be another day at the office with another version of chasing something no different than chasing money, pussy, happiness, security etc.

Ta DA!!!

Captain Ahab is enlightened! He gets the white whale in the end! 

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, mandyjw said:

Love is surrender. Surrender feels like a limit, when really it is ultimate freedom in disguise. 

This seems to be getting into dualities and attempts to define love in relative terms. That doesn't resonate with me, yet it may with others. 

For example, if love is surrender - then love isn't non-surrender. I've seen and experienced forms of non-surrender I would consider love. That is why I'm saying these relative definitions are limited.