Jordan Peterson Dynamic

[clouffy]

Why has Jordan Peterson become a cult-like figure? Is it because of him being quite intelligent and verbally fluent? Is it because he constantly speaks to the point?

A lot of what he says actually makes sense

It's such a shame that it has become a cult-like thing

 

 

[RichardY]

@clouffy Atheism failed. So Jordan Peterson was brought in, as an alternative means of control. Member of the Trilateral commission. Noted for a newspaper article when he was 13 that he wouldn't be happy until he was Prime Minister of Canada. Absolutely raking it in.

He says some interesting things, I was persuaded to look at the Unconscious mind as a possibility, which then helped lead me more towards non-duality. But none of what he says is original, better off reading the sources directly, and not looking at his interpretation. He's totally soldout, for one reason or another. There's a book Jordanetics that'll show you the deceptions, the author isn't necessarily much better, but I'll use what knowledge I can.

Ken Wilber is probably better to listen to, I was initially put off, by appearance pink wrist band, girly necklace, seemed too nice. But he's into non-duality, and I saw a positive facebook post by Christopher Langan, where he mentioned Ken. 

 

Edited May 8, 2019 by RichardY

[Leo Gura]

JP is a thing simply because most of American society is at stage Blue/Orange and refuses to evolve up into Green. So JP provides them the perfect justifications and rationalizations for why Blue/Orange is the best and why Green is evil and dangerous, so that people can feel comfortable not growing higher.

JP is an anti-Green devil, and like all devils, he himself does not understand what he is doing or why he is doing it. He thinks he is doing good. But his ego is distorting the good that is in his heart, thus leading millions of people into devilry.

This is a textbook example of how devilry works.

[Emerald]

Right now, society is on the path toward the integration of the Divine Feminine into society and has been for over a century.

And any time there are huge leaps and bounds with progress relative to this feminine integration, there is a backlash of archetypal "defenders of the patriarchy" cropping up that try to resist the change. You can find these types everywhere now-a-days.

And Jordan Peterson is someone who is an obvious leader in the field of patriarchy defenders since he's aware of his agenda and what it entails on the mundane and esoteric level. He also knows what to show and what to conceal. That's my perception of him.

So, he advocates for resisting the Divine Feminine in a way that slips under people's radar as it's encapsulated in the facade of self-improvement and protecting the world from "postmodern neomarxists". But it's really about resisting the feminine principle and maintaining the masculine imbalance over the feminine, on the esoteric level and ideally (for him) reaching toward the mundane man/woman level as well.

And also actively trying to bring things back to "order" in the patriarchal sense is what he genuinely believes is healthy for society. So, he doesn't do this nefariously. He just takes evolutionary progress to be an indicator of something that's gone awry, as opposed to a symptom of growth toward a new ordering principle that more holistic and better for people and the planet. He sees chaos where there is order, because he is too attached to the old order.

Unfortunately, despite JPs positive intentions, this mindset that he's propagating will actually destroy our planet if we let his mindset maintain its foothold on society. Human survival depends on us integrating the feminine principle and evolving into "Green" on the SD model. I just hope we will make the jump. But the popularity of Jordan Peterson, makes me a bit nervous that we won't be able to.

Yet again, there have already been huge changes. So, maybe we can.

 

 

[clouffy]

@Leo Gura so everyone who holds an opinion (and presumable all opinions come from an ego) is a devil? 

 

[outlandish]

What do you all think of the theory that JP is:

• pulling red up to blue/orange
• helping blue/orange integrate
• calling green out on some bullshit that it needs to transcend in order to progress to yellow

I can see this very easily, that he's playing a major role in helping people move up the spiral (although I doubt he would contextualize it in this way).

OTOH I can definitely see that he's cementing the status quo blue/orange stage in even deeper.

One thing is for sure, we have a long way to go still before humanity can operate at green/yellow as a whole.

[flowboy]

My take is that many people were brought up with a lack of strong guidance, rules and clarity from their parents, and are craving that.

So JP is a surrogate strong father figure to those who had a weak or absent dad.

I know that's the case for me, it's why I like listening to him.

Edited May 8, 2019 by flowboy

[kindayellow]

I definitely agree with @flowboy he has fantastic presence when speaking. And I've honestly not watched him in months, but I very much enjoyed one video he had about social anxiety, but I found Leo's content to be much more helpful than Jordan Peterson's, I bet he goes home at night, tucks into his vegan dinner, buys his tickets for next year's Burning Man online using his solar powered laptop made of 100% recycled aluminium.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, clouffy said:

@Leo Gura so everyone who holds an opinion (and presumable all opinions come from an ego) is a devil?

Everyone who is not conscious of what reality is, who he is, what God is, and how the mind works, is a devil.

As long as you realize the above, hold whatever opinions you want.

There are also many degrees of devilry. So it's not all the same. Most people are minor devils. A few are big fat devils, like Trump. When people have a big following, like JP, they will get more push back for their devilry because it has the potential to create many minor devils out of the sheep.

The converse is also true. Angels who gather big followings will also get enormous push back because they will disturb the devil's plans. A big angel is of greater threat to society than the biggest fattest devils. Devils can mostly tolerate their own. What they cannot tolerate is brightly glowing angels.

[Forestluv]

4 hours ago, outlandish said:

What do you all think of the theory that JP is:

• pulling red up to blue/orange
• helping blue/orange integrate
• calling green out on some bullshit that it needs to transcend in order to progress to yellow

I can see this very easily, that he's playing a major role in helping people move up the spiral (although I doubt he would contextualize it in this way).

OTOH I can definitely see that he's cementing the status quo blue/orange stage in even deeper.

One thing is for sure, we have a long way to go still before humanity can operate at green/yellow as a whole.

I can see JP pulling up some people up to blue/orange. Yet his demonization of Green will make it much harder for them to transition into Green. They would need to recondition a lot of beliefs. I’d much rather see some that simply pulls people up to Orange. 

[Leo Gura]

Just consider this: if humanity does not take climate change seriously over the next 20 years, there will be massive Purple, Red, and Blue casualities. Tens of millions of people will die, not to mention the irreversible environmental damage.

Meanwhile JP is bitching about post-modernism.

It's a total red herring. We got serious issues to deal with.

[ivory]

4 hours ago, outlandish said:

What do you all think of the theory that JP is:

• pulling red up to blue/orange
• helping blue/orange integrate
• calling green out on some bullshit that it needs to transcend in order to progress to yellow

I can see this very easily, that he's playing a major role in helping people move up the spiral (although I doubt he would contextualize it in this way).

OTOH I can definitely see that he's cementing the status quo blue/orange stage in even deeper.

One thing is for sure, we have a long way to go still before humanity can operate at green/yellow as a whole.

For the depressed, anxious, victim types JP can be a very inspiring guy. I believe that he does help people in being more assertive and responsible, which is a good thing.

There are healthy and unhealthy manifestations for each meme in the spiral. If you know what the traps are at red/blue/orange then by listening to JP, you should be able to continue to grow and not get stuck at any stage. You are correct, though. JP has a bit of a blind following who internalize everything he says without question. Those people will remain stuck. Those who do question him, based on their own life experience and/or other resources, have the opportunity to outgrow JP and move into a more happy and healthy way of being.

I also believe you are correct in stating that JP calls out green's BS. The problem is that, to move into yellow, you need to open your mind. JP is quite close minded, and believes that he's "right", so he's not exactly encouraging people to evolve past green and into yellow. He's just throwing more fuel on the fire and green's response is to push back. Hatred, and the "us vs. them" mentality is very difficult to transcend which is how people get stuck at green. Who would want to give that up? I believe that JP is just reinforcing green with his finger pointing.

[whatishappeningtome]

I really liked Jordan Peterson's content when he shared interesting things like the Big 5 Psychology Traits and how learning more about yourself directly impacts your life. I thought that content was really useful for me at the time.  

Here are a few errors I have not seen criticised enough of Jordan Peterson.
1. His support of corporal punishment in his book 12 Rules For Life when clear scientific evidence shows how harmful physically disciplining children can be. 
2. His interpretations of the religious texts he studies are plain wrong because he doesn't have an understanding of this non dual/oneness of reality. Instead he interprets really strange & abstract beliefs from the text. 
3. Even though he teaches self-help to an extent from what I have seen is that he believes that men would be better off carving a forward path into a trade like plumbing or carpentry. This is I suppose, decent advise to a young man who might be drifting- but he seems to be stuck in a baby boomer mentality of find a job and make a safe and secure life for yourself. 

I was a fan of Jordan Peterson and still like him but especially regarding Point 3. I think what will truly make most people more fulfilled is what Leo has expressed in his content. That finding your true life purpose rather than chasing safety and security is what makes life most fulfilling. 

 

[Borisvoll]

What I see with JP is that he has good points and is scientifically right. But he distilles many powerfull philosophy self help and other really deep topics to a point in where he can use this topics to guide a narative. 

Like he is really into Carl Jung and does go to great lenghts to tell about the heroes journey. But at the end he uses this vehicle to promote why feminism and victim culture is bad. Instead of him saying: use this information to watch further then to conflict other people. And even help them along the way. 

It is a thing of his to stretch and turn his narrative to his advantage. He is the one who like anyone knows. His generation was too greedy and self serving in their egos he want to set that thing right into my eyes. 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Borisvoll

[CreamCat]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Just consider this: if humanity does not take climate change seriously over the next 20 years, there will be massive Purple, Red, and Blue casualities. Tens of millions of people will die, not to mention the irreversible environmental damage.

Meanwhile JP is bitching about post-modernism.

It's a total red herring. We got serious issues to deal with.

There's the threat of intelligent AIs, too. They could wipe out billions of humans in this century.

[Shin]

13 hours ago, clouffy said:

@Leo Gura so everyone who holds an opinion (and presumable all opinions come from an ego) is a devil? 

 

If you believe your opinion is more valuable than an another

Yes.

[now is forever]

4 hours ago, whatishappeningtome said:

3. Even though he teaches self-help to an extent from what I have seen is that he believes that men would be better off carving a forward path into a trade like plumbing or carpentry. This is I suppose, decent advise to a young man who might be drifting- but he seems to be stuck in a baby boomer mentality of find a job and make a safe and secure life for yourself. 

I was a fan of Jordan Peterson and still like him but especially regarding Point 3. I think what will truly make most people more fulfilled is what Leo has expressed in his content. That finding your true life purpose rather than chasing safety and security is what makes life most fulfilling. 

this is actually not so easy to be withdrawn - it makes some sense, how do you know for some people carpentry wouldn’t be more of a life purpose than an assembly line job or being a secretary/coffee fetcher and in the end jesus was a carpenter, wasn’t he? working with wood can be a very fulfilling job. also the guys i met who learned carpentry before they got designers are the better furniture designers.

we have this discussion for a while going on in germany, too. it’s a common sense thing, right left, both talk about it. it’s supposedly more  the attempt to streangthen the middle class again. 

we all like to feed the mindfactory.

Edited May 9, 2019 by now is forever

[CreamCat]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Meanwhile JP is bitching about post-modernism.

It's a total red herring. We got serious issues to deal with.

People who defend something unimportant and people who react against it are doing the same thing which is to get distracted by something unimportant. Whomever is defending post-modernism against JP is wasting time, too.

There is an important lesson to be learned.

Quote

First things first.

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by CreamCat

[outlandish]

@Leo Gura or maybe he's a Blue/Orange herring 

Is the best thing to do with red herrings is to simply ignore them and move on? I feel like a lot of the protest around JP just fuels the fire.

@Serotoninluv yes someone who could simply be pulling up reds to blue/orange would be better to embrace. I've noticed people who behave like this, but unfortunately they don't make as much noise, or stir up controversy like JP does, so they don't tend to get the spotlight as much. The tragedy of our age. Here I am unable to come up with any names.

@ivory and everyone else in this thread, great discussion here folks, thank you.

[Scholar]

19 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Just consider this: if humanity does not take climate change seriously over the next 20 years, there will be massive Purple, Red, and Blue casualities. Tens of millions of people will die, not to mention the irreversible environmental damage.

Meanwhile JP is bitching about post-modernism.

It's a total red herring. We got serious issues to deal with.

Maybe it is what is meant to be. Remember the story of the Chinese farmer? There are already billions upon billions of causalities, what better way to humble us than to let us experience the full consequences of our actions?

We have gotten away so many times with our arrogance, because we believed that mankind could eventually figure it out. How many times will this trick work until we fall on our nose?

 

I feel like we have been given clear rules for this game, there is no mercy for those who are unwilling to adapt. Our capacity to destroy this world is already tremendous, maybe it is better if we fail now than to wait for these capacities to increase to the point of no return. What are we going to learn if we get away with it again? I feel like if mankind ever needed to learn a serious lesson, it was now.