Is there any Objective meaning?

[Sauvik]

It all ways troubles me since I have realized that purpose and meaning is subjective. 

I have a lingering dillema, How can I be passionate about something that is nothing more than my own  perception. How can I be passionate about an "object" knowing that ,that object has no intrinsic value in itself in the universe?

Now I think there is no objective meaning there. It seems Obvious now I mean for any Meaning to exist there needs to be a subject...right? Without a subject to "percieve" there's no chance of any Meaning to be born.

This also implies that judgement outside of our own perspective is absolutely fruitless and any information derived from judgement of another person's situation is irellevant as its the perspective of a different person.

 

would love to Know your views and have a discussion.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Sauvik

[Swagala]

Interesting question ?

How can I be passionate about an object knowing that that object has no intrinsic value in itself in the Universe?

I'd say that if this conceptual object was IN the universe then it must have actual value for it to be there or else, it wouldn't be. Just as a single small red blood cell might insignificant to the entire human body, it still has value and is meant to be there. Now, would the object be of anymore importance as a human body be to the universe? Probably not; in greater perspective, they'd just be vibrations, wiggles. But when you're asking as to how you can be passionate about an object when it's meaning to the universe is null, the answer is to do the same thing you did to make the object unpassionate to you. You switched your perspectives, you can still choose to go back to the human perspective or stay in the Universe perspective. You can choose to give meaning to something or not.

You can have your own passions or meanings about something because you are you. You are in the human perspective, you are not in the actual Universe perspective. An object has meaning or not have meaning, both are sides of the same coin. If you want to give meaning to an object or anything, then do it, there's nothing bad about it.

But what do I know? I'm also not in the actual Universe perspective.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Swagala

[Shadowraix]

The meaning is embedded in existence itself. With every why there is a why not. 

Just do what you desire. Be ok with impermeance and meaning your meaning to not be the same for others. Getting fully involved in experiencing and appreciating meaning than trying to get other people to see it. 

[Forestluv]

@Sauvik I love to hike and admire waterfalls in the springtime. What does this mean? Is hiking and waterfalls inherently meaningless? Do they inherently lack beauty? Or are they objectively beautiful? How could we test if they are inherently beautiful? Who would decided the tests or get to interpret the results?. . .

These are questions that no longer arise in my mind while I'm in love with the direct experience of hiking and admiring waterfalls. . . 

[Leo Gura]

@Sauvik You are God. You get to create whatever you want. You can create a personal heaven or personal hell. Up to you. You have infinite freedom and power.

Whatever you decide will be what gets created.

How else do think God works? You think God can ask his neighbor what he should create? You think God can open some book which tells him what is right, what is wrong, what is meaningful, what is valuable?

God has no one to ask but himself since God is all alone. God literally makes it all up from thin air.

Ta-da!

[Sauvik]

1 hour ago, Shiva said:

@Sauvik Why would "objective" meaning be better than subjective meaning?

Isn't it much more important that you think it is meaningful?

What if something was objectively meaningful but you didn't care about it, would you rather pursue that than something you personally care about?

Thanks for your insight.

One argument could be formed as following on this.

Why consider objective meaning better, than subjective meaning? ( Considering here that something as "objective meaning " exists)

Well subjective meaning cannot be "trusted", because we are just humans and we are far far from perfect, for a cocaine addict , cocaine might be very Meaningful, it would be definitely be a helpful suggestion for him to tell him to pursue a meaning out of his "flawed and out of order" perception. Would it not?

1 hour ago, Shiva said:

@Sauvik

What if something was objectively meaningful but you didn't care about it, would you rather pursue that than something you personally care about?

IF there is even one thing really objectively meaningful ( which I don't think there is)  I'd consider that thing as an anchor to all beliefs, think about it, that's something which doesn't change because it's decided to be "meaningful" regardless of any perception and/or can be said that it's meaningful from All existing perceptions. In other words it would be the shit, it would hold status of God..?

[Sauvik]

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Sauvik I love to hike and admire waterfalls in the springtime. What does this mean? Is hiking and waterfalls inherently meaningless? Do they inherently lack beauty? Or are they objectively beautiful? How could we test if they are inherently beautiful? Who would decided the tests or get to interpret the results?. . .

These are questions that no longer arise in my mind while I'm in love with the direct experience of hiking and admiring waterfalls. . . 

I feel you , I love these things you mentioned, I love the trees, the delicate flowers, I love to hike and swim in a beautiful river..... I don't really liked to think about this stuff before that " oh let's see how exactly are they beautiful " I would hate to be a nerd of that level...haha.

But this time I am realizing something much more deeper from this questioning, which I think is actually making my love even deeper , I don't feel heaviness  anymore to ask these questions.

I am still in the process of getting my understanding around this properly and i haven't have a direct experience Realization yet, I am realizing this through contemplating work, I might not make sense sometimes .

 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Sauvik said:

I feel you , I love these things you mentioned, I love the trees, the delicate flowers, I love to hike and swim in a beautiful river..... I don't really liked to think about this stuff before that " oh let's see how exactly are they beautiful " I would hate to be a nerd of that level...haha.

But this time I am realizing something much more deeper from this questioning, which I think is actually making my love even deeper , I don't feel heaviness  anymore to ask these questions.

I am still in the process of getting my understanding around this properly and i haven't have a direct experience Realization yet, I am realizing this through contemplating work, I might not make sense sometimes .

It sounds like this approach is resonating with you. I love to see that 

[CreamCat]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You can create a personal heaven or personal hell. Up to you. You have infinite freedom and power.

Didn't you say the universe is heaven for God although devils think it is a hell?

That's a fitting description because devils live in hell and God lives in heaven.

[Sauvik]

10 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Sauvik You are God. You get to create whatever you want. You can create a personal heaven or personal hell. Up to you. You have infinite freedom and power.

Whatever you decide will be what gets created.

How else do think God works? You think God can ask his neighbor what he should create? You think God can open some book which tells him what is right, what is wrong, what is meaningful, what is valuable?

God has no one to ask but himself since God is all alone. God literally makes it all up from thin air.

Ta-da!

 

Universe is perceiving itself through me ,I am the universe , the universe is the percieving  itself through me, In this way whatever I am passionate about is what all there is in universe there is nothing else to be passionate about, Its all subjective , subjective truth is the objective truth....wow it sends shrills in my body just to understand it.....I wonder how powerful having a direct experience Realization of this will be.

 

Edited May 9, 2019 by Sauvik

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, CreamCat said:

Didn't you say the universe is heaven for God although devils think it is a hell?

That's a fitting description because devils live in hell and God lives in heaven.

Perception, thought, and creation are not two.

The universe is hell for devils because of how they perceive and how they think -- which is their creation.

How you think about reality affects reality directly. By thinking of the world as a place where you exist, where others can harm you, and where one day you will die, you literally create your own hell.

[Sauvik]

I wanna thank you guys this discussion was very helpful for me.