The difference between waking and dreaming

[Shaun]

It is often said that waking and dreaming are exactly the same. Why is it then that in dreams, all the laws of physics we are used to get violated and other random unexplainable stuff happens?

[Robi Steel]

"the" laws of physics. You mean the random ruleset in this dream that also has no apparent cause or reason to exist. just like your dreams

You cant use this reality as an anchor for what is realistic or unrealistic if your aim is find out if this dream right here is real. It appears real because there is no alternative to it because "thats how it has always been". Just because it is longer and more consistent doesnt make it less random or fantastical. There is an illusion of normality

Edited May 6, 2019 by Robi Steel

[Shin]

You only think your dreams are crazy when you wake up,

Never during the dream itself.

 

[Shaun]

Just now, Shin said:

You only think your dreams are crazy when you wake up,

Never during the dream itself.

 

Exactly, unless on the rare occasion I become lucid. @Robi Steel Yes, I know the laws of physics are just humans trying to describe how the dream works. I still just don't understand why dreams behave so differently from the so called waking state.

[Rilles]

What if your real life IS the dream and youre actually sleeping right now? How would you know? 

I had some serious false awakenings a few days ago, fucked with my head a bit... 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Rilles

[Shaun]

12 minutes ago, Rilles said:

What if your real life IS the dream and youre actually sleeping right now? How would you know? 

I had some serious false awakenings a few days ago, fucked with my head a bit... 

In the waking state, I go to bed and then a dream begins. I don't go to bed in my wacky fucked up dream and wake up to normal life, the dream just ends. In the dream state I am almost never aware of being aware like I am in the waking state. If I fall off a cliff in the dream, I wake up unharmed.

Could you please talk about your false awakenings? They might be helpful.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Shaun

[Shin]

18 minutes ago, Shaun said:

Exactly, unless on the rare occasion I become lucid. @Robi Steel Yes, I know the laws of physics are just humans trying to describe how the dream works. I still just don't understand why dreams behave so differently from the so called waking state.

 

Because they have a different ruleset.

[mandyjw]

I hate the dreams that have even worse limitations than real life, like suddenly the car you're driving has no brakes or power steering. A lot of my dreams are about living life like normal only I can't control anything the way I normally can. 

I guess control is an illusion that is more powerful when we are "awake" during the day. 

[Rilles]

16 minutes ago, Shaun said:

In the waking state, I go to bed and then a dream begins. I don't go to bed in my wacky fucked up dream and wake up to normal life, the dream just ends. In the dream state I am almost never aware of being aware like I am in the waking state. If I fall off a cliff in the dream, I wake up unharmed.

Could you please talk about your false awakenings? They might be helpful.

Doesnt waking reality end when you lay down to sleep too? Can you pinpoint where exactly sleeping begins? Does it really matter if a bed is involved? You can dream about going to sleep too, like when you have false awakenings.

You can become aware through lucid dreaming. 

If you fall off a cliff in real life youre unharmed in your dreamstate. 

 

 

Im not trying to prove anything btw, its just interesting to ponder these things. 

 

I had about 10 F.A’s in one morning and one where I kind of felt like I was going to project out of my body, it was weird... I dont know, they just had a very weird vibe to them.

[seeking_brilliance]

Even though dreams are the same as reality in actual experience, I still consider them to be a mirror of what is happening in what we call 'waking life /real life'.  In other words our nightly dreams are a 'dream within a dream', and rely much more on the dreamer's consciousness and psyche than the waking dream, which I see more as a shared dream, like a MMORPG.  However, we have no proof that the shared dream isn't another dream within a dream, making our nightly dreams a dream-within-a-dream-within-a -dream, or infinitely deeper. 

 

 

[Inliytened1]

@Shaun because ofherwise the idea of a dream wouldn't exist.  A dream is a contrast to a non-dream.  More content within Consciousness.  Just like you are an idea.  Think if it holistically that it is all content within a giant mind which in order for there to be anything there has to be a system of contrasts.

[Shaun]

16 minutes ago, Rilles said:

Doesnt waking reality end when you lay down to sleep too? Can you pinpoint where exactly sleeping begins? Does it really matter if a bed is involved? You can dream about going to sleep too, like when you have false awakenings.

You can become aware through lucid dreaming. 

If you fall off a cliff in real life youre unharmed in your dreamstate. 

 

 

Im not trying to prove anything btw, its just interesting to ponder these things. 

 

I had about 10 F.A’s in one morning and one where I kind of felt like I was going to project out of my body, it was weird... I dont know, they just had a very weird vibe to them.

Sleep never really begins or ends because consciousness always is. Deep sleep is just awareness without objects.

@seeking_brilliance Leo said in one of his videos that it's a matrix within a matrix for infinity.

[Rilles]

1 minute ago, Shaun said:

Sleep never really begins or ends because consciousness always is. Deep sleep is just awareness without objects.

So a dream is just reality with different rules. Life as you call it is just a ”dream” with other rules. I think were on the same page here. I feel like dreams are more ”lax” while this waking reality is ”sharper” if that makes sense, like a higher level of dreaming. 

[Shaun]

1 minute ago, Rilles said:

So a dream is just reality with different rules. Life as you call it is just a ”dream” with other rules. I think were on the same page here. I feel like dreams are more ”lax” while this waking reality is ”sharper” if that makes sense, like a higher level of dreaming. 

The difference with the sleeping dream is that the other characters in it are not having their own experience but in the waking state, they are. That's what Rupert Spira says about it anyway.

[Solace]

It all happens within your mind, waking or dreaming. Without your mind, in deep sleep you still exist, who are you then?

[Jkris]

@Shaun deep sleep is awareness of unconsciousness.

Dreams are awareness of sense of me + thoughts and visions with out conciousness.

[Shaun]

12 minutes ago, Solace said:

It all happens within your mind, waking or dreaming. Without your mind, in deep sleep you still exist, who are you then?

Nobody

[Jkris]

@Shaun you are aware of nobody in deep sleep.

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Jkris
Edit

[Solace]

@Shaun You understand very well, that is our true nature   We put on the clothes of a body, and a mind later on; and we misidentify ourselves as being them. We are actually nobody. The person who is reading this now is this endless space of nothingness. That is what we all are, in every moment, yet since we identify ourselves as the passing thoughts, we therefore believe we are the sum total of our past experiences when we are so much more.

 

[Robi Steel]

@Shaun If you could create anything, would you make it easy to detect its fundamental secret(that it is not real). Or would you make it counter-intuitive and challenging? Would you make the illusion as convincing as possible or easy to detect?