Which side do you pick?

[Preety_India]

I don't know exactly how to frame this question. It's complicated. 

I'm not so much of a realist. I'm more on the idealistic side. 

But there is always this conflict in my mind about two things that have bothered me for some time. 

It's a conflict between reality and morality. I am not good at articulating so it might appear like I'm all over the place. Sorry for that. 

So here's the thing. I and my friend always have this argument about things like kids, obesity, mental illness, beauty, money etc. And she is a bit on the harsher side. That is she does not find any problem in fat shaming, she would not like disabled kids, she would not find them worthy or productive, she is more about money and achievements in life and success and having good genes. So she gets very judgemental about people in general, like if someone is obese, they are automatically losers in her eyes, or if someone is unemployed they do not deserve respect or value. And when I argue with her, she tries to give me logical reasons behind it like "how are these people productive or how unsuccessful they are," I can say I'm more of the hippie type who believes in living a free life untethered to social standards of what's desirable and what's not. In my mind, I use morality to defend my perspectives, that God created everyone equal and that I shouldn't judge anyone, everyone is beautiful, every child is worthy, but she doesn't like my perspective and says that I need to be practical. 

So I was in this relationship where the guy was, you know, not making much but I was happy with him, but she was constantly referring to his lifestyle and being critical of me being with him and that I needed to be with someone having more money and status. And I said to her that these things do not matter to me and she argued saying that I'm stupid and being unrealistic and that I wouldn't make it far in life with this attitude. 

I am honestly confused with this whole conflict between reality, social engineering and morality because I'm on the spiritual path and here such things don't make much sense. 

So I really don't know which side to pick or how to think, sometimes I feel she may be right because if everyone was unrealistic like me, then we wouldn't progress on a social scale or end up creating a society of hippies or losers with no rational aim in life. I do not call them losers, but that's how a lot of people in society think of those that do not focus on wealth and status. 

So this conflict is bugging me. I feel like I'm right and sometimes I think I should think more like her. I'm not able to make up my mind as to which perspective is the right one. 

She tells me to look at facts and not emotions, to use logic and reasoning. But I find her reasoning harsh and judgemental and critical of those who need understanding rather than judgment and I find it ungracious and unaccomodating. Sort of myopic. 

She is not a bad person, she is just logical but I'm confused how I should think about everything in life. 

 

[Derek White]

Just see people for who they are. There is no need to label people as good or bad, those are relative terms which don't really exist. If you see a fire you don't put your hand in it because it burns, but that doesn't mean fire is bad or good. It is what it is. Compassion doesn't mean you jump in the fire. Compassion is just a better way of looking at the fire than hatred. If you look at something with hate it just makes YOU feel bad, nothing moralistic about it. 

Now for how to conduct yourself in this world, you need to be realistic. If you want to be with somebody you should conduct it like a business. What do you want form them and what they want from you (money, love, healthy genes for children, etc.)? Will this be sustainable down the road? Is it a good idea to live with someone broke and lazy? Or with someone who has a lot of money but isn't emotionally invested in you? What do I want from this? These are questions YOU need to answer and not your friend. 

Also, if you're thinking you can change somebody later on, please don't. This is a major distraction from spiritual pursuits and just a bad decision in general. 

[Shaun]

If she is so judgemental of others then it may be time to reevaluate who your friends are. Basing happiness and success solely on appearance and amount of money is absurd.

[Robi Steel]

First of all, she definitely seems like the kind of person that you would want to stay away from. She seems like she is having an active negative influence on you if I can be completely honest here.  She shouldn't be bothered by your friend AT ALL. That's intrusive and tells you something about how she sees you. 

 Here on this forum, we definitely subscribe to the ideal of being non-judgemental and perceiving reality accurate and most truthful. This entails that you start unravelling all the easy and egoic judgements and prejudices you build up in your mind. A big chunk of evil and hatred in this world is directly made by people who live in a superficial world. Not seeing people for their core or their spirit but being disgusted by them on the grounds of trivial characteristics. This makes a person who is wrapped up in a world that is only seen from the perspective "how can this serve me" or "how is this person valuable for my survival". This creates a lot of ignorance and lying in order to serve oneself. 

This egoic worldview doesn't allow for honest or authentic love(Your friend not being able to accept your relationships for example, without authentic love comes a need for control in relationships).  It doesnt allow for honest truth searching or honest research (Making life about achievement is a lie for example, achievement doesn't make you fulfilled. Fat people being always loosers is also a lie and a good way of making people feel shitty about themselves btw).

Try and step outside your own agendas and attitudes in order to see the world for what it actually is, not what you want it to be.  Every perspective has some worthwhile insight, every person has its place and time. 

You are right, everything is part of creation and everything is needed. Dont let that intuition be blown by some ignorant people. Allow love in your life, dont make your life about being better than everyone, make it about accepting everyone

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by Robi Steel

[RichardY]

@Preety_India I tend to try, to give notice to the idealistic side. Velocity; as to whether you're going down, staying the same, or increasing.

Theodicy (Problem of Evil)

1)Plotinus. A deprivation of Good. Your soul continues as unbound potential, providing you do good acts.
2)Augustine. An absence of Good. Divine Grace if you like.
3)St Irenaus. All is Good. "Best of all possible Worlds". Everyone wins in the end.

I go with the number 1.

Yeah if they are clinically obese, they and/or their parents have failed in someway. Reality is important as the fixed substrate, that let's you reach greater heights and act morally.

 

[Lister]

@Preety_India

It sounds like your friend is very insecure. She hasn't yet learned to develop a distinction between good judgement and being judgemental.

For me the underlying issue is deep seated hurt. When that is resolved your friend will be able to accept people for who they are, but pick the "right" men and friends that serve her because she will be now assessing the situation from a place of self love, which translates to love and respect for everyone no matter what their situation, but also love and respect for herself, her own situation and her own emotional, physical and spiritual needs. I've been in the company of a healed person and I never seen them put another person down in order to be conscious of their own conditional requirements from life.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Lister

[Key Elements]

Are you learning anything new from her that would take you further in life? Because what is the use of continuously judging and talking/gossiping about, let's say disabled ppl/children? They have nothing to do with her.

[SFRL]

@Preety_India

I think of these things, like most things, the truth is somewhere in the middle. 

I don't see it as either or. You are both right and both wrong. 

Too take it far, and to be happy, you need to blend both her and your perspective.