I Need Advice On Career Choice

[SaynotoKlaus]

  I used to play online poker for a living , but i gave that up recently. I am in a spot where i have no money and i need to start working on something. I did my research and i have two choices in mind but it's a difficult decision.

 First i want to say that the thing i love the most in life is (visual) art. I like watching drawings , paintings and photography. I also love drawing and i am committed to dedicate as much of my free time to get good and enjoy it. Obviously i considered making a living out of this , but i'm not that good at drawing , and everyone knows that making money with art is really tough , especially if you're not one of the best.

 I started learning to code and it's something that i enjoy , not nearly as much as art , but it's an entertaining way to spend time for me. I could learn to be good , and i would probably start making money in a few months but the only way i can make money with it is as an employee. I imagine freelancing is just like being employed only you have a flexible schedule. 

I used to have jobs in the past , and the idea of working for others , doing what and when they want bothers me a lot , because i enjoy my freedom more than anything else. Jobs also tend to take the enjoyment out of even the best hobbies.

The alternative to this would be to make money online with internet marketing. I don't have skills , can't make products , so the only business i can have is something that involves websites , getting traffic , using commercials and stuff like that - I am aware of less integrous ways of making money online , like copying other people's content and making short ebooks with my own words , but i would grow to be disgusted with myself sooner or later  , even if now this would be great for me since i have no money.

I don't care that much about internet marketing , but i am good at solving problems and i imagine i could do well if i put some effort into it.

 

So the choice is between doing something that i like while losing my freedom (and the potential to make lots of money), and doing what i don't enjoy but what is going to bring me financial freedom.

To be honest i can't even predict exactly how it will feel to be in each of these situations , you can't really know until you're there , right?

Do you think i can be successful at a business if i'm not passionate about it?

If i could be employed as an artist it would be an easy choice because art it's the thing i enjoy the most , but i can't do this. I imagine it would take me a few years until i can make enough money , years which i can't afford to wait because now i am living with my mother , i am 28 , have no money , no girlfriend , i really need to start earning soon and to move on with my life.

Edited April 23, 2016 by SaynotoKlaus

[appleaurorae]

You can make business if you are not passionate about it but as you said:

17 minutes ago, SaynotoKlaus said:

Jobs also tend to take the enjoyment out of even the best hobbies.

The same might apply here after time.

Making business on the internet just for the sake of it is hardcore. Websites are about something. And creating them for others is also a disaster if you don't have connections.

About drawing: you would need to find a target audience, style and niche. Like what do you like to draw, which drawings you enjoy the most. Maybe you want to mix it with coding to write a game or some animation. The more you draw the better you will get. Or maybe there's something else you would love even more, did you try more interests?

[SaynotoKlaus]

4 minutes ago, appleaurorae said:

Or maybe there's something else you would love even more, did you try more interests?

 

I'm 100% sure that art is my thing. I'm not even interested in experimenting with other hobbies. 

 

The only thing i'm looking for right now is a craft that allows me to make decent money.

[Wind]

I think you can be successful at business even if you don't like it. The only thing you need to be passioned is the thing that business is around. If you don't like marketing side, you can start off by doing it all yourself, but later outsource everything and focus purely on the content and the thing you're selling. You could start by creating a niche site or a kindle book on any of your passions, fears and/or problems. If you create a business around your passion, fear and/or problem, you will definitely be excited enough to move forward.

Check this out: http://www.smartpassiveincome.com/securityguardtraininghq/ - it's a post of a guy who made a successful niche site and documented all the process

[Rodrigo]

@SaynotoKlaus Do the money thing and draw in spare time. Better than drawing and being hungry.No fun to draw on empty stomach either.

[Falk]

@SaynotoKlaus Do you work in your freetime on your art projects every day?  

Did you show your work to people? can you post smth here for us to see?

 

[JAYTE]

Hi!

The first thing that comes to my mind is that, well, you should start a business and/or website and build it around art and art supplies. You would be passionate about the products you're working with and selling & you would also be able to make good money. You don't even have to display your art at all if you don't want to. Or, you could do your personal artwork to demonstrate the products you're offering- maybe through a blog, YouTube, instagram, your website- whatever you feel is the right fit for you.

I suggest you play around with this idea and see what comes to mind. Explore other avenues of making money in the art community without selling your own art. What do you and others in the art community like and/or have a need for? You can resell quality products for a profit or you can create your own. 

It will be hard work at first but almost everything is. You'll have to make a big time commitment and focus on getting everything set up. But more importantly, I think in the end this would be a very fulfilling route should you feel lead to choose it.

Hope I've helped spark some new ideas! I hope you discover the passion and career you're looking for!

[SaynotoKlaus]

@Falk  I don't draw everyday , because things that make me happy also make me uneasy so i tend to distract myself a lot - this is my main issue right now which i'm working on.

http://prnt.sc/awra5p 

I threw away my old sketchbook , this is all i got so far.  I definitely got a long way until i can call myself an artist.

[Falk]

On 25.4.2016 at 9:07 PM, SaynotoKlaus said:

@Falk  I don't draw everyday , because things that make me happy also make me uneasy so i tend to distract myself a lot - this is my main issue right now which i'm working on.

http://prnt.sc/awra5p 

I threw away my old sketchbook , this is all i got so far.  I definitely got a long way until i can call myself an artist.

Cool, can´t realy judge those professionaly, but it like them personaly.

The question is: Do you secretly hope that drawing will lead to money to fame to girls falling in love with you and you finding love ultimately?

Because if it is...let me tell you, even if you get money fame and girls you won´t be happy, this sounds so cheesy like a bad advise, but if you start to meditate more and see into yourself you will notice how true this is. Most of us humans are totaly in the dark concerning our own motivations!

[WelcometoReality]

@SaynotoKlaus What would you do if money wasn't an issue?

Figure out a way to earn money doing that.

[Birdman]

This is from a previous post, but I think it applies to you as well.

 

Hello Butler Mr Gleeson,

To answer your question: No, a 9-5 is not your only option for income.  There are many other ways to make income.  Here is what you need to do, my friend:

1. Find your budget
   1. Write down a list of all of your monthly expenses, starting with the largest and working your way down.  
   2. Add up the total: This is your bare minimum budget that you need to get by.  Everything beyond this figure is for you to decide on where to spend it (savings, out to dinner, new laptop, etc.)
2. Find out what it is that you like to do.
   1. Write down the top 100 things you like to do.  Make sure you get ALL 100 down!
   2. Play "I- Spy" in your own life:  Imagine you are a detective trying to figure out what a person's interests are.  Look at their apartment.  Write down all of the things that you see that relate to what they enjoy in life (types of books, internet articles, sports, pictures on the wall).  Sometimes what people really want in life is already subliminally being created around them.  If someone has a bunch of surfing pictures up in their apartment and they live in the mountains, maybe they actually want to live near the beach!  Write down 100 I-Spy items in your own life.  Make sure you do all 100!
3. Explore different options for part time employment that are available to you.Start with the basics
   1. Drive for Uber, Lyft, or Sidecar (if you have a 2005 or newer vehicle)
   2. Do deliveries on PostMates (if you have any car, or even a bike)
   3. Pick up shifts at a restaurant (Do you have hospitality experience?  Start as a busser, try and get a few shifts as a server so you can start making tips.  Do other things on the side to generate more income.)
   4. Look for other part-time work that is in line with your general interests.  Look at your lists from your 100 things you like and I-Spy.  Is there any job or company that would incorporate some of those interests into your daily work?  Spend some time on this and be patient- you have plenty of time to explore.
4. Look into starting your own business on the side.
   1. This is something that you should do while you are already working.  Don't just quit your day job to start your own business because it usually requires a little time in order for any business to start getting clients and making money.
   2. Here are some examples of SERVICE BUSINESSES that you can start alongside almost any current job (note that service businesses are much easier to start than production and/or sales businesses because they don't require manufacturing costs or inventory costs to start)
   3. Start a dog-walking and house-sitting business (Do other locals know you?  Would they recommend you to a friend?  Take care of their house and pets while they are away.)  Work out a fee structure and off you go!
   4. Know computers?  Reach out to people in your neighborhood to see if they would like for you to refurbish their groggy old computers?  You can charge $50 per hour or $100 per computer.
   5. Obtain certification for something you would like to do, then start your own practice.  Go to massage school, become a Notary Public, or learn full-stack web development.  After you obtain certification, offer your service to a couple of friends for free and get feedback on how it was.  After you get some experience, you will feel much more confident speaking to potential clients about your services and fees.
      1. What other skills do you have?  Which of the things listed on your 100 Lists would someone else pay for?  All you have to do is market yourself to potential customers.  

Murtaza is absolutely 100% correct too.  Take your time.  The clock is not ticking here.  This is not a timed test.  Just because your friends may already have their whole life planned out already doesn't mean you have to.  What is most important is that you are ready to start doing whatever it is you would like to start doing, if anything right now.  Take a month, a year, five years, ten, twenty, fifty.  Don't do anything if you don't really want to.  You're miles ahead of the game and your peers just by taking the time to sit back and put some thought into the general direction you would like to explore at this point in your life.  You don't need to grow up quickly and don't believe anyone who pressures you into being "more mature".  I hope this helps.  PM me if you have any questions.

- Andrew 

[Richard Alpert]

OP, you have a pretty good situation when you clearly know what youre interested at.

Definetly keep going with arts and coding. And i would take a job as a coder, if im not sure how to make business out of it. You can be there for example 1-3 years and build youre skills, probably you can turn the coding into a business at some point if youre good / passionate.

Making money in arts is little risky business, keep going with it but i would put all my eggs in that basket.

Im 29, ex poker pro also (quit about 5 years ago, had a good run for couple of years) and also never been interested working for somebody else. I had no idea what i would start to do when i quit poker, eventually got into sales. Im now in the same spot again, thinking about switching careers and what to do and i honestly have no idea where to head. My interests/hobbies are sports, reading (lot of psychology, "spiritual" books, science / personal development).Sports have been a hobby for 20+ years. Im not interested in being personal trainer or something like that, because its mostly gym based and thats not my expertise and there so much bullshit in the industry in my opinion. I also thought about becoming a psychologist, but realised that fuck no.

[nbolt]

On 4/23/2016 at 4:22 AM, SaynotoKlaus said:

 First i want to say that the thing i love the most in life is (visual) art. I like watching drawings , paintings and photography. I also love drawing and i am committed to dedicate as much of my free time to get good and enjoy it. Obviously i considered making a living out of this , but i'm not that good at drawing , and everyone knows that making money with art is really tough , especially if you're not one of the best.

 I started learning to code and it's something that i enjoy , not nearly as much as art , but it's an entertaining way to spend time for me. I could learn to be good , and i would probably start making money in a few months but the only way i can make money with it is as an employee. I imagine freelancing is just like being employed only you have a flexible schedule. 

Why not both? I currently do freelance coding to fund and support my other more creative and artistic hobbies

[League of Lions Org]

Great suggestions on this thread and a really good question.

a). I've known a number of people who figure out a way to do what they love for money, but many more who have not and have had to go to plan b, plan c or plan d. Some of those that have succeeded at this, well as you and others have mentioned...it basically converted their hobby and/or passion into their successful career or business. I don't think most of them would undo that, they seam pretty happy, it just means that something that they used to see as a hobby or passion has now become career or business...it's still the same "thing" and they're happy because they get to do it and get paid, but it isn't the same none the less. Big question on this is does that matter? Why do these kind of things we like, creativity, preferences why do we assume when we arrive at the next level that we'll see them the same or even care the same any more?...we're constantly changing, adjusting, figuring things out and going to another level.  If you trust that you "idea" of drawing or romance with it can change and you just find other things, or see it differently, well then you can grow too...why see this whole thing and your love of drawing in your spare time as an issue at all, why let it define any of your figuring out first how to survive and then how to thrive, grow and keep going with your life's mission and positive momentum?

b). The smaller but more urgent question is how are you going to survive? Maybe you can stay with your Mom for another year or two or three?...not forever, although if she got sick you might bless her by staying much longer eh? More so, the issue isn't that you've been staying there, it's that you didn't come up with a better 1 year, 2 year, 4 year etc. plan 1-4 years ago and stick to it. In the short-term, this to me is the real issue at hand. You can move out and "wing it", but every time you have a slight setback in that scenario it will be much harder than keeping to the plan and staying with your mom. I don't know her, but I have kids 24 & 26, many parents would go for another 2 years if their son had a really good, really well thought out, realistic plan and then saw them completing pieces of it every week. This is in effect what you and everyone of us will have to do to ever see an idea in our head come into reality. We can't just "hang out", we can't just "play video games" and quite honestly we can't just "draw and doodle". It's one thing if by some long shot of life doing them will help us get somewhere actually worth going...but 99% of the time they don't. They are just part of our personal "excuse option package" that keeps us distracted. We like them though, they are our perceived friends, they are comfortable, they are part of our identity and oh yeah...we have a right to do them when we're not actually at work! Except, those that succeed, they're training, learning languages, learning to code, etc. when they're not at work. They're gonna kick the other "hobbies" or "passions" down the road a few years or more so they can build a life, a career, etc. And when those self disciplined ones are further along at 30, the 90-95% will say they had more support, more chances, better parents, more money, good luck, blah blah blah. The truth is, they weren't lazy, they spent time making plans, adjusting, learning skills, making connections because they saw their fun hobby of drawing as just that, they didn't tell themselves it would become a career. Why, cuz it take 1,000's of hours of not just drawing, but taking classes, seeing other gifted artists and serious practice. For all of human existence people have been wanting to make a living playing baseball because they love it...well of course they love it, do we think they'll love digging ditches, do we think they'll love fixing pipes...OMG people are living in lala land on this "do what you love" crap...it's just a song we sing ourselves and read about because it comforts us as the ship keeps sinking LOL

c). In contrast and lastly, if you love helping animals become a vet, before you go to school though for 6-8 years volunteer at the shelter, work as a vet tech in the summer, get the Vet to let you help with an operation or two. If you quit liking it, if the blood makes you woosy...well OMG you just save a boat load of money and time so now you can move on and find something else you MIGHT want to do for a long time. But here's reality, 90-95% of people don't like to do something that 90-95% of us can do in our society, we can't all draw, make music and play baseball...yes, only the best 100 or 1,000 or 10,000 in our country will get to do many of those things AND make a good living doing them. SO...perhaps we would be served better to take a more broad assessment of what we like to do and why? For example someone may like working with kid, like helping people, be ok with blood/mess and be fairly patient....so a long list of possible jobs could work for this person, not perfect jobs, not executive jobs, not jobs paying $100-200k next year...but starting places, jobs to survive, jobs to "taste and see". If he/she later decides that the kids are getting a bit much, then he/she can shift up, down, left or right...but at least they have some job experience now, at least they proved they can show up for work on time, at least they have some confidence that they can learn on the job, etc. Maybe after 5, 10 or more years they come up with a way or see an opportunity to do the same thing but for themselves and grow a business...hot dog!...but it didn't come at the beginning right, if everyone in our society that wanted to start a business straight out of high school or college, without any job experience, without an career experience, really with very little life experience...what exactly kind of great business start up idea are they going to come up with?...Angry Birds?...that one's long gone, how many angry bird app developers do we need??? So, after a bit of a rant, maybe, just maybe anyone reading this that doesn't have a career or much job experience should consider doing something crazy, humble yourself, stop trying to take shortcuts, stop trying to "get an in", stop wasting you precious life by investing your time in games or hobbies when you just need to get a job, then a better job, show up on time, then find a job where you can grow or get promoted, then and only then start thinking based on all your experience and busting your ass about some business you might start. Please wake up and come into reality. If you had just taken this tact, this attitude, this "no bullshit" get it done mindset at 18 you wouldn't be living at your mom's at 28. Now, my best "general advice" is stay there another year or two or three and bust your ass, do something, but at 28 it's a little late to just get into coding and try and make a living, that would have been great at 18 or 20 or 22...but now that you've kicked the f'g can down the road and been distracted you get to do a full time job while you learn coding at night like many of the other self-employed coders have had to do.

In closing, go do it. Go get the best job you can in REALITY, learn coding at night or whatever other option you can get yourself excited about as an alternative, but you need to live in reality and not plan on 10 years to work on it at night, right? Then bust your ass 30-50 hours a week at that job, proving to everyone around you that you're an "A" player, a "get it done" kind of guy...and spend 20 hours nights and weekends learning to code, more if you can handle it. I've worked 80-100 hour weeks at new jobs and starting businesses multiple times in my life and you can too.  Everything that is most cool and fun to you, limit yourself on how much time/money you can spend on that stuff VERY tightly, then when you achieve a goal along your planned path pay yourself off SOME...but withhold the big payoffs until you finish, until you make it to the next level.

If you can't do this, if you can't "manage" yourself and your motivation, then get used to working at pizza places, riding a bike and living at your mom's. I don't want to hear that's what you've decided to do though, I want to see you freak'n show the world that you're a winner, that you can manage your own mind, your own body, that your universe may be small right now but that by dang you're the master of it right!  If you don't ever master yourself well, if you just blame it on everything else and kick the can down the road, then you'll regret it and camouflage it and explain it away for the rest of your life. Don't let that happen bro, quit talking about this, go find the best job you can in a week or two, do it with excellence, treat your mom like a queen, honor her, bust your ass at night and on the weekends on something that will get you to the next level in your life. If you're 28 and just starting to get good at drawing...dude, you've lost your F'g mind, put that shit down at 28 and do something substantial and challenging with your life and then start drawing again later when you don't need to put in so many hours building your actual real money making relationship growing life. Drawing is and always will be shit compared with living a REAL life, don't let it suck you down, it's a hobby, it's an art, maybe it's a passion but IT'S NOT YOU, and it isn't going to make or break your life dude. Go get on with life and kick it's ass before it kicks yours ;-)

Gary "tough love" McCormick

Edited May 1, 2016 by League of Lions Org

[hedge]

I think you should explore how far you can go with programming. 

I see strong parallels between writing software and personal development. You are always after improving how well you design code. You can do code reviews, looking through commit history, looking/reviewing other people's code on github. Pretty much, the web (aside from mainstream entertainment, social networking, ecommerce, etc) is this vast resource made by techies for sharing tech information (blog, github, irc, etc). 

You say you "don't have skills , can't make products" - I'll take your word on this. But you are trying to code, so you're building up those skills to make something. The cool thing about code is you can version control it, it's a save game feature. You can reuse, review, copy, paste, reformulate it. Evolve it. Eventually dots connect.

How far you go depends on how much you put it.

... I wish I could say I'm saying all this because I come from a very accomplished position. In fact the above is part self-talk but it is what I believe. 

Note: oops, this thread started 4/23 but I'll go with it. I was searching for threads with "poker" in it, just curious/gambling to see what interesting content came up.

Edited May 22, 2016 by hedge

[MIARIVEL]

@SaynotoKlaus As a life coach I get a lot of people that are passionate about something but they seem to have fear and limiting beliefs on what they think they are not capable of doing. In reality, you are capable of anything you set your mind to. If you want to run your own business in Art, then you can. It might take some time to get where you want to be but instead of saying 'I can't" a lot, why don't you start telling yourself you can. 

It may take a little longer to to run your own Art business but meanwhile, you can still make income other ways and make time for what you are truely passionate about. Persistence is the key. 

I had to work full time for 3years at a job I couldn't stand just to pay the bills and in my spare time I was building my business as a life coach. Life coaching is also becoming a very tough market but if you are persistent and determined to do what you really want to do, then nothing will stop you. 

You learn a few lessons a long the way, make a few mistakes, things take longer than normal, you may even lose money trying to make your business work and may have to cut out the social life but sacrafices to me are worth following my passion and my dream.