Is ignorance truly bliss?

[Liger]

I was born a Muslim, and for 18 years of my life I was a very devout one. The last 4 years of my life I've done much introspection on my beliefs and I type to you now as an agnostic. I am not publicly agnostic but my close friends are aware of it, and when on rare occasions we talk religion one of my friends always says something that makes me question the idea of theism altogether, he says "My parents are ignorant and they're so happy, why can't I be happy and ignorant as well?". When he says that, it makes me think of all the sleepless nights trying to accept the fact that "Allah", this being that I had built an intimate 18 year long relationship with, did not exist. And it makes me question whether the entire journey of truth (specifically in religion) is worth it at all. Should each person just follow what their culture teaches, regardless of its external validity, because that is what allows for the least suffering and the most happiness? Does ignorance = happiness? Thoughts?

[Forestluv]

I don’t think it’s that simple. On the one hand, observation, learning and knowing has allowed release of many blocks and opened up openness, space and freedom. Yet on the other hand, I had to let go and “unlearn” a lot of stuff. There is also a state of not-knowing that is peaceful/blissful. Yet I’d say it’s a deeper form of “ignorance”. Not really the way most people use it.

[mandyjw]

1 minute ago, Serotoninluv said:

There is also a state of not-knowing that is peaceful/blissful. Yet I’d say it’s a deeper form of “ignorance”. Not really the way most people use it.

This is really interesting. We start out life unconscious but are blissful in it. Some people stay that way. Something throws us out of the Garden of Eden, maybe it's a realization, awakening, life changing event, realizing the emptiness of success or just maturity. It steals out innocence.  Then we suffer until we learn to go back to the garden of eden by choice. After that we have access to both worlds, the world of thought and intelligence and the world of peace. We started out with no choice, then we were given choice but lost our happiness and in the end we learn to keep them both. 

[Forestluv]

@mandyjw I would say one of the deepest human desires is to return “home”. Which is Now. 

[mandyjw]

@Serotoninluv

[kindayellow]

My response is that your parents aren't actually that happy. Not as happy as you think they are, I think often religious people tend to built up a lot of guilt for some of the thoughts or temptations they have but don't act upon them out of fear of a higher power. 

[Truth Addict]

8 hours ago, mandyjw said:

This is really interesting. We start out life unconscious but are blissful in it. Some people stay that way. Something throws us out of the Garden of Eden, maybe it's a realization, awakening, life changing event, realizing the emptiness of success or just maturity. It steals out innocence.  Then we suffer until we learn to go back to the garden of eden by choice. After that we have access to both worlds, the world of thought and intelligence and the world of peace. We started out with no choice, then we were given choice but lost our happiness and in the end we learn to keep them both. 

Bingo! ??

[TheAvatarState]

@Liger ask a dog. 

[Liger]

@kindayellow Believe me when I tell you they are happy. They truly believe that they are on the correct path, they've held this belief for over 60 years, so it has literally become a reality, they no longer get doubts about what they are practicing. To them its the absolute truth and they are so grateful that they found it. Another example of the ease that ignorance can bring would be of my situation with my ex girlfriend. She was Muslim and I was agnostic, and she wanted to raise her kids a certain way. We knew it wasn't going to work out so we decided to cut it off. However, it was only a matter of time before she found a Muslim in the community that fit her criteria. While, I, on the other hand (now agnostic) have had a much harder time finding like-minded individuals that I can connect with. This is mainly due to the fact that I grew up in a specific culture/community for 20+ years and now I no longer have (want) access to that community. My point is that I've always thought seeking the truth was the most important thing, however, in practical life situations I am finding out that this may not be the case. What was the point of me suffering all those nights trying to convince myself that God still exists? Would I have just been better off accepting what I was taught whilst maintaining an agnostic perspective? (Being an agnostic thiest)

[Nahm]

Someone who finds ignorance to be bliss, does not know bliss.  Someone who finds religion to be Truth, does not know Truth.  One who questions existence, doesn’t know the self.

Discover within yourself what you looked for in religion.  What good is it to tell you the taste of this green tea latte? I can give you my word that it is delicious, but, pretty sure you’re here to taste for yourself. 

 

[LastThursday]

@Liger we are always in a position of ignorance, however much is revealed to us. Happiness comes from realising how ignorant we are and accepting it, not from hoping to be more ignorant than others.

Edited May 7, 2019 by LastThursday

[Rigel]

What is ignorance? I don't know I guess.

[Truth Addict]

@Liger and @Rigel

Interesting to see your names look alike, sorry for this stupid observation 

@Nahm Isn't bliss and feeling good what everyone wants after all? Why deny them their right to feel good? They've found happiness through belief, tell me, what is direct experience but a belief? Why do you take memory for granted?

Questioning is not for everyone, some people are skeptical, and others are believers.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Truth Addict]

3 hours ago, Rigel said:

What is ignorance?

To answer this question, we have to firstly answer the question: "what is what?".

What is a question?

A question is something that is looking for an identity, a desire to connect things together and put them into what we call "an answer".

Of course the one who asks is the one who picks identities for parts of reality.

So, let's reframe the question:

What is ignorance in terms of identity?

Ignorance is the loss of identity (disidentification) or the mistake in picking the right identity (misidentification).

The right identity is the thing itself, a sight is just a sight, a sound is just a sound, a thought is just a thought, etc...

[Nahm]

4 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

Isn't bliss and feeling good what everyone wants after all?

Yep.  OP didn’t sound like it’s working for him yet.

Why deny them their right to feel good?

Not possible. Beliefs are problematic in this way. 

They've found happiness through belief, tell me, what is direct experience but a belief?

You would have to experience that answer directly to know the difference.  

Why do you take memory for granted?

Huh?

Questioning is not for everyone, some people are skeptical, and others are believers.

Sure. Takes all kinds. 

 

[pluto]

This is what we mean by ignorance is bliss

I love this picture, it speaks 1000 words and is answers to so many questions people ask here on actualized. It should have its own section

[Truth Addict]

@Nahm

It sounded like you were talking about the parents, not the original poster.

17 hours ago, Nahm said:

Someone who finds ignorance to be bliss, does not know bliss.  Someone who finds religion to be Truth, does not know Truth.

I was probably mistaken. My bad.

The part about memory and direct experience:

I was asking: Can we trust our memories of direct experiences? Because memories are fantasies.

In the present moment, there's no difference between belief and a memory of direct experience.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Nahm]

@Truth Addict You answered that. 

[Truth Addict]

2 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Truth Addict You answered that. 

I know.

But why do we say that direct experience is prior to belief then?

Is this work designed for skeptics?

[Nahm]

@Truth Addict One appears to be two (thought / belief). Two veils.