Sane, crazy, insanity and psychosis

[Flatworld Crusades]

Hi all. I've been a member her for a few weeks and I want to thank you for your welcome and interest. My exposure to your communication style is limited so please bear with me  

There is one area that I have quite a bit of confusion over and that is sanity/insanity. I've read quite a few posts where sanity is in question, and I have a couple of questions about it. This is the first time I've come across this kind of focus, so respectfully:

• Do you subscribe to creating an environment that is indusive to being insane.  If so why?
• do you call moments of high creativeness assisted by psychedelics as insanity?
• im very interested in communicating within high awareness individuals who have suffered psychosis.  If your comfortable.
• Lastly and most importantly what are your definitions of sane, crazy, insane & psychotic.

thanks all 

 

[molosku]

Here is my definition:

"regular" person: lives in distinctions and concepts. World is taken quite literally as a puzzle of words and ideas of reality. Interconnections of different distinctions coupled with ones own biases and survival needs create ideologies of the world, that are seen as real as reality itself. Rape and murder are just plain WRONG and that the end of it, it is obvious isnt it. Highly dualistic, black and white thinking is trademark of the "regular" person. 

Awakened person: transcends and includes distinctions and concepts. Concepts and ideas are now seen as they are: a description, a point of view, but not as reality itself. Ideas are a legitimate part of oneness, but they do not overshadow being itself like the previously did. Duality is non-duality and vice versa, all issues and problems collapse and all the capital versions of dualisms (see leos recent duality series) step into foreground of experience. Ideas are included and integrated and seen as they are. 

Insane/psychosis person: gets lost in distinctions and concepts. Insane person draws connections and meaning out of his own ideas that others dont experience. These connections and meanings take a hold of a persons life and mentality in a disruptive way. A person is no longer able to tell wich of his fantasies and ideas are real and wich are not: they all blend together into his experience. Meaning and the further meanings of different meanings are not seen as a mental construct, meanings create real tangible physical features of reality.

The experience of the phone ringing MEANS that secret agents are watching. There need not be any evidence, first hand experience of agents themselves to prove they are real, meanings of different things that are experienced first hand create a reality for them. 

For the regular person the fact that the phone rang means that someone is calling and the phone rings, both are equally real and tangible, the caller is not an idea but a real physical part of reality. There is no further meaning drawn from either of the "facts", but the idea of the caller enforces the bundle of ideas and unconscious delusions that create the ego illusion: me and not-me. The delusion is there, but it goes by without noticing, it does nor grip the "experiencers" experience in a disruptive way. 

For the awakened person the fact that the phone rang means that someone is calling AND that the ringing is simply experienced, as it did and there is no other reality to it. The ringing is real and the person calling is an idea. 

This is a very brief overall explanation that includes non-dual understanding. Im not going to go into the Leo Guraisms of this topic (such as the fact we all more or less believe a voice in our "heads" that tells us stuff), but I encourage you to contemplate the dualism of insane vs not insane.

Psychosis and madness are very complex phenomenon though, and there is much more to them that I could blabber on here. 

Highly recommended read, one of the most comprehensive and stage yellow books I've read:

 

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by molosku

[okulele]

"Believing the voice in your head is insanity." - that's what my voice just said

[shamaanitar]

”The psychotic drowns in the same waters in which the mystic swims with delight” - Joseph Campbell

 

There are many kinds of psychosis and it is difficult to speak of insanity as it could refer to quite many different states.

Having experienced both something that could be classified as psychosis (altough luckily quite mild) and mystical states and awakenings, there is a big difference between them. The problem is that whilst you are in the state of psychosis, you can believe that it is awakening etc mystical state. But if you are able to introspect, it is VERY different. One makes you feel free and one makes you feel, in the lack of a better word, insane. 

 

It’s important to note that in psychosis every single one of your delusions has a logic to it and makes perfect sense to you. It is just very difficult to explain this logic to others, actually quite impossible.

[abrakamowse]

@Flatworld Crusades I think this video can be of your interest:

 

 

[Conrad]

19 hours ago, Flatworld Crusades said:

Hi all. I've been a member her for a few weeks and I want to thank you for your welcome and interest. My exposure to your communication style is limited so please bear with me  

There is one area that I have quite a bit of confusion over and that is sanity/insanity. I've read quite a few posts where sanity is in question, and I have a couple of questions about it. This is the first time I've come across this kind of focus, so respectfully:

• Do you subscribe to creating an environment that is indusive to being insane.  If so why?
• do you call moments of high creativeness assisted by psychedelics as insanity?
• im very interested in communicating within high awareness individuals who have suffered psychosis.  If your comfortable.
• Lastly and most importantly what are your definitions of sane, crazy, insane & psychotic.

thanks all 

 

Psychoses is identical to spiritual awakening, at least that was the case for me. You should break free from the notion of "sane" and "insane". All sane people are insane. Insane people have just broken free from false sanity into true sanity, which is the realization that everything I thought to be true including that "I" exist as a separate self is delusion. 

[Flatworld Crusades]

16 minutes ago, Conrad said:

Psychoses is identical to spiritual awakening, at least that was the case for me. You should break free from the notion of "sane" and "insane". All sane people are insane. Insane people have just broken free from false sanity into true sanity, which is the realization that everything I thought to be true including that "I" exist as a separate self is delusion. 

I'd personally disagree, and the school of thought I'm from also disagrees.

I appreciate your comments and wonder does this reflect the teaching of spiral dynamics or other teaching you all prescribe too ?

[Conrad]

2 minutes ago, Flatworld Crusades said:

I'd personally disagree, and the school of thought I'm from also disagrees.

I appreciate your comments and wonder does this reflect the teaching of spiral dynamics or other teaching you all prescribe too ?

Which school of thought do you come from? Just curious. 

[abrakamowse]

6 minutes ago, Conrad said:

Psychoses is identical to spiritual awakening, at least that was the case for me. You should break free from the notion of "sane" and "insane". All sane people are insane. Insane people have just broken free from false sanity into true sanity, which is the realization that everything I thought to be true including that "I" exist as a separate self is delusion. 

I agree... I had also a "psicosis episode" that now I know it was a spiritual awakening. The problem was that I was not ready to understand what happened to me. I met a lot of people in the hospital that in my opinion, they are closer to awakening than a lot of "sane" people.

In my opinion, that happens because awareness or reality pushes us so badly or you can also say that we cant's stand things as they are. That causes a breakdown that can lead to a psychotic episode, depression, etc... But, if you are not ready, because our culture thinks that spirituality is mumbo jumbo there's not really a good support to help you realize what is happening to you.

The video I posted above explains that better than me, but that was my experience...

[Flatworld Crusades]

@abrakamowse video was great 

[abrakamowse]

Just now, Flatworld Crusades said:

@abrakamowse video was great 

Cool! It helped me a lot to understand better how to cope with those episodes of depression, psychosis, etc..

Right now I can say that nothing can affect me at a mental level, but I am always focused on what's real, not what my mind says.

:-)

[Flatworld Crusades]

8 minutes ago, Conrad said:

Which school of thought do you come from? Just curious. 

 I'm more of a general spiritualist 

[Conrad]

1 minute ago, abrakamowse said:

I agree... I had also a "psicosis episode" that now I know it was a spiritual awakening. The problem was that I was not ready to understand what happened to me. I met a lot of people in the hospital that in my opinion, they are closer to awakening than a lot of "sane" people.

In my opinion, that happens because awareness or reality pushes us so badly or you can also say that we cant's stand things as they are. That causes a breakdown that can lead to a psychotic episode, depression, etc... But, if you are not ready, because our culture thinks that spirituality is mumbo jumbo there's not really a good support to help you realize what is happening to you.

The video I posted above explains that better than me, but that was my experience...

I understand ? Spiritual awakening can be very hard. I'm still amazed I went through it still alive. 

I saw that video like 7 months ago, not bad. 

[Conrad]

11 minutes ago, Flatworld Crusades said:

 I'm more of a general spiritualist 

10 minutes ago, Flatworld Crusades said:

 

That's a thought, label, idea you have put on yourself and identified with. Your true nature is identity-less. Drop all concepts and beliefs, put your attention on direct experience and find out what "I" truly is. At least, consider ?

[Flatworld Crusades]

i appreciate your position 

[Conrad]

3 minutes ago, Flatworld Crusades said:

i appreciate your position 

2 minutes ago, Flatworld Crusades said:

 

? 

[Forestluv]

20 hours ago, Flatworld Crusades said:

 

• Do you subscribe to creating an environment that is indusive to being insane.  If so why?

I would say it depends on your definition of “insane”. There are many posts on the forum that would come across as being insane. Outsiders have commented in this. I’ve shared stuff on this forum that would appear insane to people in my “real life”. That’s one reason I’m on the forum. There is only two people in my “real life” I can share this stuff with. . . Yet there is also a form of “insanity” that is the incoherent that pops up occasionally, or an “insanity” expressed through twists of torture, death and suicide. That type of thing can be challenging to interact with. We aren’t trained health care providers in this area. 

• do you call moments of high creativeness assisted by psychedelics as insanity?

I think this is a really good questions. Psychedelics have brought me to hyper “creative” zones. It’s a fine line between genius and madness. Psychedelics have definitely brought me to places that feel like insanity zones. Yet, those feel distinct to me than creative zones. I can see how it is creative in a way, yet I wouldn’t  use that term.

After experiencing “psychedelic-induced insanity”, I related much differently to people that have experienced “classic insanity”. 

• Lastly and most importantly what are your definitions of sane, crazy, insane & psychotic.

I think this is really hard to define as it is so highly relative to subjective experience and social standards of normalcy. What was considered completely sane at an Ayahuasca retreat I did in Peru would be considered batshit crazy by typical Americans.

 

 

[ivankiss]

Only thought can tell you; you're insane. Only through comparison to others can your mind proclaim insanity.

Realize there is nothing you can compare your sanity or insanity to. For all you know, from your limited point of view; nobody can be more or less sane or insane than you are. Thus you are neither, really. You simply are.

Breathe deeper.

[Forestluv]

52 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

Only thought can tell you; you're insane. Only through comparison to others can your mind proclaim insanity.

This has not been my experience. To me, that idea sounds like a sane perspective on insanity. A couple of my episodes had no thoughts involved.

In my experience with insanity, there is no thinking about whether it’s sane or insane. There is no rational thought process comparing the activity in my head to others. It’s not rational, it’s insane. . . . I’m not referring to mild stuff like ideas that I may have a paranormal skill and worry others might think I’m insane. There are insane levels much much deeper that I would not wish on anyone. Like being trapped in an insane reality. It can go into some horrifying stuff.

[Flatworld Crusades]

17 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

This has not been my experience. To me, that idea sounds like a sane perspective on insanity.

In my experience with insanity, there is no thinking about whether it’s sane or insane. There is no rational thought process comparing the activity in my head to others. It’s not rational, it’s insane. . . . I’m not referring to mild stuff like ideas that I may have a paranormal skill and worry others might think I’m insane. There are insane levels much much deeper that I would not wish on anyone. Like being trapped in an insane reality. It can go into some horrifying stuff.

I agree with this. I think stretching the boundaries of our realities, or opening areas of our mind not experienced before, like being high on drugs, still are encompassed as normal or sane.  I can identify with being trapped in an insane reality. It's one that the law defines as legally incompetent. 

So I think a lot of what I have read here are personal interpretations.