What determines what 'healthy' and 'unhealthy' in every stage?

[Nivsch]

I have a conversation with friend and he says that the fact that "every stage add something new and iclude the good sides of the prior stages" - he thinks its otopic.

Also he says "and what if the green stage is exaggarating and cancel stage blue too much? That it overlook (or throwing out) some things of the blue stage that are good things?"

"The method is problematic because it shows only one way the world can progress"

"Its unrealistic because in the real world it hard to seperate "good" and "bad" things"

I tried to explain him its not mathematics and every person has some colors in different degrees... and that some person may learn a lesson from orange and after a month another lesson that he didnt learnd well"

And after that he said " its sounds better but i still dont like the seperation to colors".

I really dont know what he wants.

Can you help how to explain it to him? Do you have some ideas?

 

 

 

 

[Truth Addict]

@Nivsch

Healthy vs. unhealthy is a larger topic than spiral dynamics. And it's highly relative.

I think it's better to introduce the concept of ego to your friend, so that he understands what healthy vs. unhealthy actually means.

Also try to show him that SD is just a model, and that it isn't the truth. I sense that he's thinking of the model literally, without understanding that it's very flexible.

[Shadowraix]

Spiral dynamics is merely just a model to show an idea of human progression that ended up being pretty accurate. It's been said before it can not account for everything. No model is perfect. Maybe your friend should look at it for what it is instead of trying to bash it for not encompassing all of reality. 

Good and bad are relative but SD is trying to lay out what your view on the world will be at that phase thus changing such senses. 

Tell your friend instead of arguing the healthy vs unhealthy debate that he should work to understand why SD may say an aspect is healthy or unhealthy. See the perspective so you can see the point before one looks down on it. 

[Nivsch]

@Truth Addict yes it seems he has biased opinion about that without really know it and its frastrating me a bit ?

He has read my summary of the model until orange and didnt countinue to read during the last month.

I told him the model is only simplification of reality. He like very much knowledge (and history and statistics about societies) so its so wierd the model doesnt appeal to him. The model can help him understand much better the reality.

Thank you and i will tell him what you said

 

 

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

@Shadowraix thank you ill tell him that . I didnt understand the last sentence "See the perspective so you can see the point before one looks down on it. " what did you mean?

[Shadowraix]

12 hours ago, Nivsch said:

@Shadowraix thank you ill tell him that . I didnt understand the last sentence "See the perspective so you can see the point before one looks down on it. " what did you mean?

I'm trying to get at that Spiral Dynamics is mapping human progression through a perspective. It becomes a common trap to point at the faults of something from a different perspective. But can you say you truly understand what is being faulted until you view it from the one it was created from? 

What is SD trying to get at and from what angle? What is the point? Good things to think about instead of trying to see where it goes wrong from a different angle. 

[Nivsch]

@Shadowraix ?

[ivory]

The healthy and healthy aspects are discussed under the "qualities and shadows" item: 

http://spiraldynamicsintegral.nl/en/green/

Each color has a different url. Just replace "green" with "yellow" or whatever.

[Nivsch]

@ivory thanks ?