What's The Relation Between Projection And The Shadow And Shadow Work

[Joseph Maynor]

Curious

[DrewNows]

Shadow side is often highlighted in our focus upon others whome we don’t resonate with. So like if you meet someone who turns you off they most likely exhibit some shadow aspects. 

Hmm projections are usually for events and circumstances which we find relatable to memory. 

There is a girl I met who really annoyed me with her tendency to always voice her feelings and opinions. This is the opposite of an introvert. 

@Joseph Maynorcare to share your thoughts on the relation? 

[lmfao]

@Joseph Maynorif there is an aspect of your psyche that that you want to repress in a stage blue manner, you will also be wary of that aspect in other people and will imagine its presence in places that it is not. I don't think this is a particularly profound nor is it about all general cases of projection.

I mean projection is a way in which you attribute false qualities and characteristics to something. Negative judgements are all about ego and blah u know the rest of the story. What I've said so far is all too general/non-specific to contribute to this discussion I think.

On a tangent, now that I think about it abstraction in its effort to cover all scenarios and generalities can "fail" to adequately give info about a specific situation. In trying to account for everything you in some sense account for nothing. Kinda reminds me of the sensation vs intuition dichotomy in MBTI, where both dimensions complement each other. Or reminds me of the universal/democratic/fair-minded cognitive axes vs Contextual/monarchical/goal orientated cognitive axes. 

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by lmfao

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Joseph Maynor From watching a videos and listening to audiobooks and series where shadow work is mentioned or a topic. Using the 3-2-1 process which is similar to Fritz Pearls technique or a basically a derivate of gestalt therapy. The link to the exact extraction of the technique from wilber from the original work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestalt_therapy#The_empty_chair_technique.

I'd have to read the whole thing to give a technical/detailed analysis. Reading through the original wiki clears things up. imo
 

What I notice is when I project that I am denying qualities and tiny treasures inside myself, behaviors, world views, "stages" in terms of spiral dynamics, situational relating, and so forth.

Projection largely for me is the denial of qualities in oneself which have been denied or repressed, as a means of ego survival. Seeing all this in relation shadow work, projection and shadow. As an example in your journal, you posted your big 5 aspects ... so, for instance, I score in the 41 percentile of assertiveness which is below average for a male.  Now when I meet people who are very extroverted and assertive, this used to trigger me in the past, I always felt it is disrespectful and cold. But, I admired the audacity and how unabashed extroverted people are. So, I immediately used this in shadow work because it was a trigger from the unconscious and noticed that I project my own unabashed, cold-hearted nature on to them and their way of anger and conflict management, was more of a healthy ego measurement to stand up for one's SELF.

Now, when I am being more assertive now after doing shadow work, I am not fearful anymore of saying what I want, saying no, saying yes I care, no I do not care, and basically stopped being a victim, yet my own non-caring attitude or low pivotal point of assertiveness still remains. It's like I have the means to the end, but I have to stick through it through the end with a healthy more integrated low assertive assertiveness mean/s. Which is not always easy, yet helps to resolve conflict with assertive people more easily. 

Another example is Vulnerability, very emotional people who are vulnerable used to trigger me immensely, and push my own emotional buttons, even in a healthy manner hurts and still hurts today. Depending on how sensitive the person is. I projected my own denied qualities of caring and caretaking on to them, seeing them as irrational, weak or unable to assess competence since they are so fluffy. Now, I found my own fluffiness through shadow work and the projected qualities of being irrational and weak, and unable to assess competence even comes in handy. For instance consider the dunning-krugger effect the most sensitive person has the most potential to see this IMO, see any INFP. Being irrational gives me more leeway to talk crap and not feel the need to be the expert 24/7 and felt like I am able to chisel concepts in a free-floating manner more easily. It's like building sky castles. It does not exist, yet it was constructed somewhere, even if not real. 

This won't really make sense, or IT!  TOTALLY does.

 

Edited May 2, 2019 by ValiantSalvatore

[Charlotte]

@ValiantSalvatore ? Thanks for sharing! 

Can you tell me how you did your shadow work please or a link to something? I read the link you previously posted. Sounds interesting. 

[now is forever]

started to read a book recently, it’s called shadow dance - don’t know yet if it is really good, but when i started reading it i was at a lake and in front of me was a group of people. two couples, one of the girls was extremely attractive (i got a little envious) and she was all lovy dovy with one of the guys they where presenting their new found love very obviously talking loudly, so i hardly could concentrate on my book. i even noticed how i got envious about their perfect relationship over the next half an hour and realized it was hard at the boarder of getting jellous. they really where so beautiful together. i really hated them at one point rubbing that under my nose, i just wanted to read. then the other couple left, only the lovy dovy couple remained, finally it was more quiet - and what happened? they started to have an argument quarreling resulting in her standing up and leaving the scene while he was walking five steps behind her. 

it‘s really difficult to understand what was who‘s projection in this situation - at least i know my shadow is that i secretly sometimes wish i could be another person, i could change my skin from time to time, because they seem to be someone i am not, the rest was projection - sometimes if the shadow shows in a real person, the shadows are dreams that seem to be dreams on the surface but are not so much of a dream if we look further. i guess a shadow is a representative of our own projections, but it is more, it is also a representative of our denials and about the denials of the shadow.

there are light shadows, too, they overlap with the ones that are because the light is missing. in that sense, we all live in the shadow of the sun.

Edited May 2, 2019 by now is forever

[peqkno]

@Joseph Maynor

An excerpt from a Ken Wilber book.

He's talking about exactly that

http://www.kenwilber.com/editor/nbshadow.pdf

[ValiantSalvatore]

@Charlotte https://integrallife.com/the-3-2-1-shadow-process/

The video explains the process very well. Also, it shows the talking chair method. Which the 3-2-1 method is based on with a partner even. The sign-up for 30 days only is worth it. I used to do it and was cheap, now I am a member of the forum there. 

https://integralchurch.wordpress.com/2013/10/05/3-2-1-shadow-process/ Explains the process very well. This is what I started with.


I still anticipate that psychedelics and shamanic breathing are the best way, yet the 3-2-1 process most likely is the safest. 


@now is forever I'd love to give a more elaborate answer, I have to go soon. I notice this tendency of being perfect is especially, in Germany now a bit more common under millennials. Near my city, a military base is stationed with 50k Americans largest base outside of u.s. So, I see a lot of orange/green, blue/orange people in "my" region from the American culture. Which explains a bit the perfect, excellence, discipline paradigm for me. Especially, with Instagram nowadays and the internet. 

What I meant to say is I have similar tendencies, about perfection you see something perfect a couple, a financial situation, intelligence you name it literally.  Shadow work can unearth some of these tendencies, especially with loving-kindness it helps. I used to be very jealous of other people with very cool cars, even if I do not like cars that much. I did tong-leng and whished them happiness, and was happy instead for them. Only for 5-10 minutes a day for 1 and a half years or so. This worked wonders. /  quite well.

What is the book about? I watched a couple of series from Ken Wilber about shadow and other YouTubers. + Audiobooks where it is often mentioned 

[now is forever]

@ValiantSalvatore if the question about the book was not about the ken wilber book but the shadow dance book, it’s about liberating the power and creativity of your dark side. it’s a book written by david richo. don’t know yet if it is recommendable. i bought it to simultaneously do shadow work and work on my creative potential, it contains some practical advices. i like hybrids.

Edited May 2, 2019 by now is forever

[ValiantSalvatore]

@now is forever I can see why, stage red is associated with unconstrained creativity. Or with creativity. Spiral Dynamics in Action presents that as that. In one chart. 

[now is forever]

43 minutes ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

@now is forever I can see why, stage red is associated with unconstrained creativity. Or with creativity. Spiral Dynamics in Action presents that as that. In one chart. 

hahaha thats another book i only started - and didn’t finish yet. but i‘d say unconstrained in regards to red means creativity without higher aim - either only pragmatic or only theoretical. expanding creatively, unconstrained has a function in every creative process in the beginning of the process. when i bought the book i bought so many different books, hybrids are a good synthesis for the practical implementation that has to follow.

a hybrid of spiral dynamics and shadow work is probably also very interesting. thanks for the tip 

guess i start to crossread the books though first.

Edited May 2, 2019 by now is forever

[ValiantSalvatore]

@now is forever This is mainly what I have in mind after reading the chart yesterday and all the audiobooks. I ordered the older version of spiral dynamics from don beck. The audiobook version is quite unsatisfying if you want to have some juicy details, the author even mentions that in the audiobook. 

What are hybrids? Theory and practicality combined? 

Sure, purposefully driven stage red drives for creative means can be nice. Yet, I really would like to know what creativity is in that regard. When I see musicians it or I just listen to instrumentals of music, I can see and feel stage red often. Same for sports, or when I listen to people talk/explain. It's quite funny when stage blue get's mad at stage red during a soccer game.

[now is forever]

1 minute ago, ValiantSalvatore said:

@now is forever This is mainly what I have in mind after reading the chart yesterday and all the audiobooks. I ordered the older version of spiral dynamics from don beck. The audiobook version is quite unsatisfying if you want to have some juicy details, the author even mentions that in the audiobook. 

What are hybrids? Theory and practicality combined? 

Sure, purposefully driven stage red drives for creative means can be nice. Yet, I really would like to know what creativity is in that regard. When I see musicians it or I just listen to instrumentals of music, I can see and feel stage red often. Same for sports, or when I listen to people talk/explain. It's quite funny when stage blue get's mad at stage red during a soccer game.

don’t confuse creativity in general with red - turquoise is also highly creative - creativity is part of every stage!

yes in this context a hybrid is the combination of theory and practice. neither cat nor dog, drives on water and on land. it’s the synthesis between energy and matter.

i‘m not sure exactly about how red plays out in creativity - or if i got it right, i just compared what you told me with how the creative process works. so maybe i can tell you that after some inquiry. couldn’t find the chart, though.

[ValiantSalvatore]

@now is forever Sure, I won't I often find that creativity shines there. It should be somewhere on the 4 charts where the motivations are described of each vMeme.