Scientific vs Non-Dual Argument (on Instagram)

[QandC]

I love science and I like to follow scientific articles on Instagram. There was one picture posted saying something about the "heart of the universe" or something and I found this comment where another person started to argue. It's pretty funny, not sure if a follower of Leo but there were some similarities. It's not my comment btw, I just spectated.

Could this be Zen-Devilry? What would be the reason for a person to even argue about something like this, lol? 

 

 

[The Blind Sage]

Just imagine this dude spiralling his orange ass up to yellow someday.

When he looks back at this post he will be mindfucked haha

[Forestluv]

Notice the structure of the underlying dynamic:

”This is how it is”

”No, this is how it is”

”You are an idiot”

”No, you are an idiot”

I find it fascinating that this dynamic can play out between two minds, and also within one’s own mind. I’ve experience mental activity in which the above plays out within my own mind. An internal dialog of opposing views debating with itself to figure out the truth. Yet that truth is like a slippery fish that keeps getting away.

That is the underlying nature of dualism. Upon closer inspection, dualism is untenable. Nuances will keep revealing itself. A mind may debate with others or itself in an effort to maintain a simple binary dualistic view without getting any closer to a sense of resolution due to the inherent groundless nature of being untenable.

[Leo Gura]

What amazes me is how scientifically-minded people can be so ignorant of the limits of science.

The irony is that it is highly unscientific to claim that everything can be explained by science.

[Truth Addict]

33 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

What amazes me is how scientifically-minded people can be so ignorant of the limits of science.

It does not amaze me.

I feel pity for them.

I was religiously born and raised, and then adopted science, and only now after two years of following your work, I started to see beyond the limitations of blue and orange, and going more into green and yellow.

I mean it's very easy to get stuck in believing authorities, because mainstream people don't question anything, so it seems very convincing that they have the truth.

I notice that happening even here on the forum, even I can't be sure that I escaped that yet. I fell for that trap a lot of times, I'm trying not to do it again.

I don't know if you notice that Leo, but people kind of started worshipping you.

It's very hard to break out of ideology.

[now is forever]

@Truth Addict it’s very hard to break out of selfreliant systems. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by now is forever

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

What amazes me is how scientifically-minded people can be so ignorant of the limits of science.

The irony is that it is highly unscientific to claim that everything can be explained by science.

Indeed. I’ve observed that dynamic many times with minds contracted within a classical scientific paradigm. I’ve also observed the reciprocal dynamic in which a mind dismisses what it categorizes as “science”. 

To relate this to your duality videos: I observe a “science vs non-science” dualism prevalent at the social conscious level. As we examine closer, the lines between science and not science begins to blur. And what people consider “science” varies. I have conversations with science colleagues that stir up confusion because I often blur the lines between what they categorize as “science, psuedo science and non-science”. An open, curious mind is fluid wants to explore. A closed mind is rigid wants to maintain their lines.

A similar dynamic plays out with “spiritualists-minded” people as well. While I was in Sedona, I observed that several “spirituality-minded” people didn’t know if I was speaking within their categories if science or spirituality. Some people were curious and open about this, others were contracted and closed. I had one discussion with a spiritual healer who seemed to see herself “beyond” her category if what she considered science and wanted to compartmentalize science as misguided. It was her way of saying science is “woo woo”. I was fascinated with some of her spiritual insights as giggled as I made connections between reiki, energetic oscillations, quantum mechanics and neuroscience. It’s all inter-connected to me. Yet, it was as if she couldn’t maintain her categories. She stopped me and asked “part of what you just said sorta sounds like science to me. Are you a scientist?”. How do I answer that? I tried to give a holistic answer that included her category of science, yet was not limited to that category. This was unsatisfying to her and she pushed me on what my job was. When I told her, her entire orientation toward me changed and she became closed. After that she would only speak to me about surface things like how to prepare good espresso or the weather patterns around Sedona - even when I tried to stay within her category of spirituality. Once she smelled a scent if “science” in me, it was all over.

[abrakamowse]

It's very difficult at least for me to deal with that kind of mentality. At least if you are open to new ideas you can say how you see the universe, listen to others and say that you don't agree or you don't think so... but treating others as idiots because they not share your POV. No Good.

If this guy read some article about quantum mechanics or some of the Neil Bohr quotes, probably he will call him stupid.

 

[Truth Addict]

@QandC

This argument is too much flawed. Two very dogmatic people.

It's like speaking completely different languages.

But thanks for sharing ❤️

[Scholar]

Rationalists have been starting to trigger me more and more these past few months. It's like talking to a child that laughs at you for not believing in Santa Clause. The depth of their ignorance combined with this unbelievable arrogance is just mind-blowing. 

Their god is rationality, they cannot even consider the possibility that it might be limited or that it could possibly be transcended. I guess it's natural, though it sometimes it's hard to be patient when you know they cannot be convinced, as they believe to be equipped with the ultimate, infallible, unquestionable tool they call reason. I used to think Leo was a little unreasonable with his crusade against materialists, but at this point I wonder how he can stay so composed talking about them. For me it's getting so bad I even get triggered by my own thoughts sometimes.

 

It's like these horror movies where the rationalists keep denying the paranormal even when it becomes completely irrational to do so. The worst is that we have to convince them without the ghosts! We can't show them anything, because as long as they keep their eyes closed they will never, ever be able to see. Why would they look at something that would undermine their god?

[Conrad]

Being is all there is. Being is identical to God. Identical to Everything including duality and multiplicity. Identical to Truth. Identical to the Apsolute.

Science is Being but realizing Being can only happen by becoming Being in which one becomes Conscious and Aware that only I as God the Apsolute Exists. 

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

I had one discussion with a spiritual healer who seemed to see herself “beyond” her category if what she considered science and wanted to compartmentalize science as misguided. It was her way of saying science is “woo woo”. I was fascinated with some of her spiritual insights as giggled as I made connections between reiki, energetic oscillations, quantum mechanics and neuroscience. It’s all inter-connected to me. Yet, it was as if she couldn’t maintain her categories.

Openmindedness is such a simple notion yet it's actually very rare and challenging for most people to pull off. The mind likes to cling to one idea or another, one position or another, regardless of what the idea happens to be.

People do not understand how closed and openmindedness works because they are not taught epistemic foundations anywhere in school or university. So they overlook the importance of openmindedness. They take the process of acquiring accurate knowledge totally for granted.

It's a tragic flaw of our education system.

But its gives me hope that folks like you are getting it and going meta.

Sedona is a cool place. Reminds me to plan a hiking trip there soon.

[Forestluv]

@Leo Gura Yea. It also seems like openmindedness can be really tricky as well. After I wrote that passage describing my wonderful open-mindedness, I realized I was seeing her perspective from my perspective. From her perspective, it seems that I was an odd scientist bastardizing and diluting the essence of pure spirituality. That it totally reasonable from her perspective.

I really liked your metaphor of drawing images in front of a camera. One needs to draw it as a mirror-image for the other to perceive the correct orientation. For example, when you motion upward growth on a chart, you do it backwards. Quite often, I draw my drawing and it makes complete sense to me. Yet seeing it from another perspective requires a new level of openness and to draw the picture to that perspective takes practice and skill.

I actually loved Sedona. I was there years ago when I was Orange-Centered. It was a very different experience this time around. The resonance was much stronger. And tripping in a natural energy vortex was quite "enlightening". 

Regarding what you wrote about epistemic foundations. . . I don't have any formal training in epistemology, yet you suggested that I am "getting it". Is it possible to "get" the underlying essence without formal study of epistemology? Perhaps through related side routes or direct experience? For example, a lot of your videos probably have this essence without referring to it as "epistemology". As well, could a person have realizations in this area during contemplation? . . . I'm just wondering if I am missing out on something of value, yet I also don't want to have to work my way through a bunch of philosophical / intellectual weeds.

[DrewNows]

@Serotoninluvcool story in Sedona. If you were indeed seeking perspective from that woman you should have told her your job does not matter for you're a shapeshifter/paradigmshifter", not to be confused with "shoplifter" and you really just enjoy exploring reality 

[Forestluv]

23 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

@Serotoninluvcool story in Sedona. If you were indeed seeking perspective from that woman you should have told her your job does not matter for you're a shapeshifter/paradigmshifter", not to be confused with "shoplifter" and you really just enjoy exploring reality 

Haha. Yea, I tried to duck the question since I could sense it would derail the conversation. I first said I was a "mystical scientist", yet that didn't go over too well. I like your answer and will try it if I'm in that situation again. 

[Arhattobe]

Wow everyone on here gets it. So smart. Unlike this science guy. He doesn’t even know about being.

...

[Forestluv]

12 minutes ago, Arhattobe said:

Wow everyone on here gets it. So smart. Unlike this science guy. He doesn’t even know about being.

...

It's so hard to get through to those darn science guys. . . 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Serotoninluv said:

Regarding what you wrote about epistemic foundations. . . I don't have any formal training in epistemology, yet you suggested that I am "getting it". Is it possible to "get" the underlying essence without formal study of epistemology? Perhaps through related side routes or direct experience? For example, a lot of your videos probably have this essence without referring to it as "epistemology". As well, could a person have realizations in this area during contemplation? . . . I'm just wondering if I am missing out on something of value, yet I also don't want to have to work my way through a bunch of philosophical / intellectual weeds.

A) Formal study does not guaratnee understanding.

B) I have talking about epistemology a lot, both explicitly and implicitly, so if you watch my videos a lot then you get the benefit of good epistemology even if you aren't deliberately studying it.

C) Psychedelics of course help as well.

D) I am working on a book which ties everything together, epistemology and all. So people won't have to weed through 2000 years of crappy philosophy. But it will take some years to put it all together.

[cetus]

@QandC

 

[ivankiss]

My favourite part is when they say stupid and idiotic.