I don't know what I don't know

[jbram2002]

44 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

@jbram2002 it can be. Stop feeding the anticipation thoughts, take them like a grain of salt and throw your whole attention and being into the process itself, let go of the outcomes and you let go of the resistance/pain

I'll try this. I find myself having negative anticipatory thoughts about eliminating anticipatory thoughts. What a spiral.

41 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

What I’m sharing with you is exactly what I needed to be sharing with myself. What is it you need to share with yourself? (Give that some thought)

you’re fully capable of self actualizing every single moment 

btw thanks for helping me realize this  ✌️

It's so ironic to realize the entire time i spend "helping/assisting" you develops into simply helping myself 

however it don't mean you haven't received some value to take into your own consideration aye man 

I've found that helping others is one of the best ways I help myself as well. I wrote something today elsewhere that I'm relatively certain was not appreciated in the slightest, but it was also helpful for myself to hear. It's one thing I like about this alternate style of journalling: a lot of people want their journals to just be their own thoughts, but this way I can help myself while others help themselves too. Win win for all.

[DrewNows]

@jbram2002 AMEN.

also i dont remember saying you need to "eliminate" anticipatory" thoughts

It may be hard but i wouldnt even judge them....it all goes towards perpetuating thought/self/pain/suffering/ego/story of you

It's a wonderful story don't get me wrong, but it's still just a fucking story, no need to make it a serious life or death obstacle

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by DrewNows

[jbram2002]

I guess that's something I'm pretty bad at. I knew as soon as I wrote it that you didn't say eliminate, but I'm not sure why I left it instead of changing it. Maybe out of trying to not censor my thoughts here?

But when I'm feeling pain, those thoughts get very loud and very hard to ignore / not judge / let pass by. It's like when you and your significant other are having a wonderful conversation and then your next door neighbor Randy barges in the front door and screams in your face about sushi. Honestly, screw Randy and his sushi.

Ok, that was a random example, but I think you get the idea. Maybe. Or I'm insane, which is also likely  

[jbram2002]

My mind flit back to a quote from the timeless masterpiece The Princess Bride: "Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something."

I feel like this is true for most people who haven't reached the first line of awakening. Even after that point, life is still pain, but you are able to more effectively experience the beauty of it too. The question is whether to give into the pain and be miserable, or to rise above. 

The interesting part of this story is that it's bookmarked at the end of the movie by the "To the Pain" dialogue. Which doesn't have much to do with this discussion, but it's still interesting, so why not put it here?

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by jbram2002

[DrewNows]

Hahaha! Dude! 

Embrace yourself or there will be no change, no ending of pain, possible 

love and accept man see it (observe) without attachment 

the beauty of this is seeing the end of positive and negative experiences, but embracing it all (this is enlightenment) 

[jbram2002]

“I learned this, at least, by my experiment: that if one advances confidently in the direction of his dreams, and endeavors to live the life which he has imagined, he will meet with a success unexpected in common hours.” - Henry David Thoreau, Walden

I posted this elsewhere, but I need this reminder for myself as well. 

Quote

Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our darkness that most frightens us. We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be? You are a child of God. Your playing small does not serve the world. ... As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others. - Marianne Williamson

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by jbram2002

[DrewNows]

@jbram2002 beautiful quote dude 

[jbram2002]

 I think I need to work on the first half of this video before I even approach the second half, but both are quite interesting.

[jbram2002]

Warning, this is a long post. And I'm not sure I really want to say what I'm saying but what else is this journal for?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUdaVwxdnak

Not sure if listening to Teal Swan is the most productive way to do my work, but I'm leaving as soon as I finish this post anyways. If you watch the above video, there's some audio technical issues at that conference. Don't let it distract you, if you can help it.

This poor guy has gone through a lot worse things than I have, but he has a similar goal: connection. Teal challenged him to dig into what he really wanted, the part of himself that he was denying. It took me a while to realize that I've been doing something similar. Actually, it took me about a half hour into the 31 minute video.

I want connection. Whether it's with family or friends, but especially with my family. My family was never connected when I was young. My parents never divorced. I had 3 siblings plus myself. You would think a large family like that would be tight-knit. We grew up in a trailer, then moved to a 2-story home that was essentially as large as a trailer, and then my parents built a frickin mansion on the shore. It was about this time that our family began to really drift apart, although there were some cracks before then.

My parents were extremely strict. One of their rules was that none of us were allowed to date until college. We all broke that rule. Pretty sure even my parents didn't follow that rule. I don't understand exactly why they had that rule and clung to it so much, but that one rule probably did more to tear apart our family than anything else. Why? Because each of us had to be extremely secretive during our formative years. We were unable to communicate with our parents openly, and we were unable to communicate with our siblings because we held a secret that, if it got out, would take away something that we held dear.

My oldest sister had a boyfriend who was a nice guy. We never knew he was a boyfriend specifically, but it was obvious. She was the least destructive of the four of us, I'm sure. In return, my parents care about her likely the most out of us four.

My older brother absolutely destroyed his life in high school. I remember singing a song about "Jesus is closer than a brother," and thinking that he damn well better be, because my brother sucks. I don't know everything that he did, but what I do know is something I am glad I never was a part of. There were rumors of drugs, girls (maybe guys too? not sure), plus I knew he would smash up mailboxes, likely while drunk. And he would take out his frustrations on me as well. I've done my best to forgive him for that, but there's still definitely a defensive wall in place. I was forced to work with my brother for quite a while. I was able to remain professional, but I admit I was more than happy when he was fired.

My other sister wasn't much better. Feeling abandoned by her family and constrained by rules, she turned around and abandoned us. For about a year in high school, she left the house and lived with someone else, refusing to come home. I felt like she abandoned me personally. She was the person I was closest to out of the four of us, and although I expected to drift apart in high school, her leaving really crushed me. It left the burden of all the housework on me as my oldest two siblings were in college and my parents for some reason decided that they didn't want to clean their frickin mansion while they had a slave child around. When she finally came back, she was completely different. She was anti-social, had walls up everywhere, and there was no connection with her ever again from that point.

I had very little freedom in high school until my other sister left for college, and even then, I rarely did much more than drive to school, come home from school, and maybe go to my piano lessons an hour away (which I turned into a half hour in my car). I was chronically depressed, and the only thing I could do was attempt to gain this connection by proving my value. I did this at home by being the opposite of rebellious; I worked hard for school and piano, never neglected church, was my parents' little cherub. At school, I joined as many extracurricular clubs as I could, worked hard to stay in the "smart kids" clique, and tried to form friendships with anyone who would give me the time of day. Unfortunately, very few have lasted to this day.

Skipping a little for personal reasons, Mandy and I started dating at the start of my senior year. I turned all my focus on pleasing her, and in doing so, I ended up changing. I was so desperate for connection that I would do anything for the one person who wanted a real connection with me. I believe I changed for the better, and I'm happy with what I changed into as I discarded the things I was unhappy about. On graduation from college, I received an ultimatum both from my parents and from her. Both were at odds. My parents required that I go to a Christian college in South Carolina. Mandy required that I didn't. This was after high school was over; I was already accepted at this college. I began to look for alternative colleges, which was only the second time I really rebelled against my parents' wishes (the first was dating Mandy). They came up with a far worse college in North Carolina, and I went to visit it with my mother, hoping it would be an intermediate option. It was not. I can't even remember the name of the second college, but the idea of going there for four years terrified me once I came back.

I told my parents I would not go to an extreme college and instead would go to their alma mater, a state college two hours away. The upside of this college was that it had an engineering program whereas the other two did not. Following my parents' plan, I would have had to have 4 years in an unrelated major, then transfer into an accredited college from an unaccredited one, and go to college another 3-4 years to get my real degree. 8 years of college, half of which was in an extreme school that made you feel like you were at church the whole time.

Two years at the state college, and I was on track to graduate the following year. My parents got a new pastor at their Church. They talked to him, and this pastor decided that I was a terrible person. And so they gave me another ultimatum. I was to attend every church service, work for my father starting at 8 in the morning everyday during the summer, and if I was able to get by without getting three strikes, then they would continue to pay for my college. I worked my butt off, and I didn't get a single strike the entire summer.

But that wasn't enough for their new pastor. He convinced my parents to kick me out of their house, cut off all funding, and essentially Force everyone that I knew to cease all communication with me. The only people from home that I could talk to were Mandy and her family, as well as my grandmother. No one could tell her what to do.

This was the point where I decided that I would search myself and my beliefs. I focused inwards and found what parts that I believed I actually held and which parts were things that were just given to me that I believed because I was supposed to. This was a very difficult time for me, but I got through it with the help of several friends at college, my wife-to-be, and my grandmother. I have never felt more disconnected in my life.

Fast forward to now. That old Pastor is gone and I now work for my father. I still have zero relationship with anyone in my family. My grandmother has died, my friends from college have all gone away, and now all I really have is my wife. I'm so I'm desperate to hang on to this one connection.

For a while, it was obvious that connection was starting to fade. It's difficult to keep a connection going when both sides are exhausted all the time. It was even more difficult when I felt it was easier to give up than to try. Only recently did I actually try again to rekindle the connection that we lost. That's probably my fear in my desire, hanging in the balance on this one connection. I truly believed for years that without her, I am nothing. But this puts her in a terrible position of being my everything. How exhausting and difficult must it be to be the everything for two children and your spouse? A lot of responsibility on one person.

I'm just now really starting to figure this part out. Telling your wife that she's your everything becomes a lot less romantic when it's literally true. It's not sweet when it becomes more of a cry for help than anything else. It's not loving when it becomes a small child crying for affection.

So I need to focus inwards. I'm still trying to figure out what exactly I need to focus on. I'm still resistant to the idea that focusing on my appearance actually gets me what I want. But for now, it's what she wants. I figure that's a good enough place to start until I figure out what I want to focus on.

[Zigzag Idiot]

Thanks for sharing some biographical information. I wish more of the Journalers would share parts of their history. Whatever they are comfortable with. If we know more of each other's struggles we can be in tune more with each other's inherent wisdom and recognizing their essence. I've enjoyed your sense of humor in the forum in the last few days.

[DrewNows]

yeah thanks Jon this was a good read. i may take zigzag's point and your example, do some life story sharing of my own as im sort of stuck in a similar boat as you, minus the wife. youre welcome to check out my journal

What a deep family dynamic you went through and certainly a very controlled upbringing. This must be so tough for you. Hope you and Mandy do some real shadow work together when you get the chance. So you are stuck at really trying to figure out what you want whenever you aren't even entirely sure who you are! This sounds like a tight bind but realize the desires you manifest based off your interests will create opportunities to face your shadows and see the missing parts begin to return. It sounds like youve been going by the books for most of your life. Id start questioning some of your beliefs and take on some new adventures. Challenge yourself and see if there is a chance you can start loving yourself again. 

Im excited to continue doing shadow/mirror work with ya in the future, cheers  

[DrewNows]

btw just noticed your princess bride vid updates, i am a sucker for that movie. it's awesome 

[tsuki]

Great read and a touching story. I have a few observations, but I'm on a business trip so I'll keep them to myself for now.

I appreciate the guts you gathered to share this. You will feel better I promise.

[jbram2002]

@Zigzag Idiot @DrewNows @tsuki Thanks for the encouragement, all. I was hitting a bit of a low point immediately after posting that. Simultaneous thoughts of "no one cares" and "do I really trust" were warring in my head. Your responses have helped shut both of those warring factions up.

8 hours ago, DrewNows said:

So you are stuck at really trying to figure out what you want whenever you aren't even entirely sure who you are  

Precisely this. I know I'm "behind" a bunch of you who have already found themselves. I've only done the most basic work of questioning my beliefs and allowing myself to be wrong. I shared this previously, but I don't really hold any of my beliefs anymore as absolute truth. I've seen how they can be warped and changed either by myself or others. If I tell you that I believe in God, you warp that belief to your own definition of God. You might think of a detached old man Santa Claus floating up in the clouds and sending judgment down on us. Or you might think of the bearded white dude Jesus who dressed and lived like a hippie with his 12 boyfriends. Invariably, no matter what picture you envision, it doesn't represent my belief, nor does it represent the entirety of what God is or could be. The same thing happens with almost any belief I could share. 

The second issue I find is that I don't even know right now what I want. I don't have any desires for myself asides from things like wanting to be lazy and work less, asides from the connection I mentioned. Those two desires seem at odds with each other, though. Connection requires work, which is probably why I've been resistant so long. I just want it to be given to me.

@tsuki I look forward to your observations when you get a chance.

[DrewNows]

We are good at coming up with issues but always unable to see what we don’t know. Where lies your focus, and what would you wish to improve about yourself and Is it possible to consciously make a decision to simply start doing? Would/could pain become your friend? 

Edited May 29, 2019 by DrewNows

[jbram2002]

I find it hard to see pain as a friend right now. But I don't think it has to be an obstacle or an enemy. I've already started "doing" a few weeks ago, so at this point, it's simply to continue to do, or to find things I want to do for me besides those things. I also don't want to overload myself and make me feel like I've got a million chores to track, because then I'm distracted by "needing" to do those things instead of wanting to.

[Bill W]

Is there any teaching, any book, or any part of the Bible you are finding most helpful right now?

Do you feel being on the forum is shedding any light for you? It is for me, I was just curious as to how you are finding it. 

[jbram2002]

@Bill W I kinda use this forum in waves, if that makes sense. If I get some insights, like what was written above, I'll focus on it for a few days. Which tends to mean I don't post here daily, which makes Mandy mad at me

There are things with this forum that I think are objectively negative, and other things that have a very positive impact. I am working still on a balance between trying to not be aggressive in my advice-giving and trying to receive more advice than I give. Someone posted a response to what I had said recently asking what I had gotten from the reply I made, and I realized that I really hadn't gotten anything. I was just preaching at them blindly. That's the sort of negative thing I'm trying to avoid doing, since that's (in my opinion) detracting from my overall goals.

As for teachings, books, the Bible, I've been listening to a bunch of Teal Swan over the past week. With the amount of work I have and the limited free time, I don't often have an opportunity to really dig into books like I really want to, or even watch lengthy videos. Again, Mandy wants me to watch more of Leo's videos so I can participate more in the weekly discussions that come up, but I find he doesn't really resonate with me personally. I'm also not exactly a "read the Bible daily" sort of person (anymore), so I haven't been digging into that either.

I know, doing a bunch of mental masturbation and not a lot of practice. But I still feel like I'm getting some overall benefit from this all. I just need to keep my ego from telling me that I'm actually not happy because the selfish things aren't being met as often as I'd like. 

Hope that my response wasn't too disappointing! 

[Bill W]

@jbram2002 Having been and still being in AA this forum is a good place for me further practice humility and open mindedness. I also get to practice giving something and not expecting anything back in return. I can also develop my truth without trying to force feed it to someone else. 

I'm planning on watching some of Leo's earlier general self help videos at some point. I think there is a few he did that are 30mins long. At the moment I'm not too interested in Leo's current stuff. He is not the reason I am here but that could change, you never know. 

[jbram2002]

The most important question I can ask myself right now is "Why?" I'm trying to identify myself, see my motivations, and move forward. My daughter came upstairs and asked "What are you waiting for, Mommy?" to Mandy. I'm not sure why she asked that, but I just repeated it. She said "Prosperity" so I replied "Why are you waiting for it?"

I tried asking myself the same question. What am I waiting for? The first response I came up with was the amount of time it takes to lose weight. Then, asking myself "Why?" I had no good answer. Why am I waiting for it? Is it so I can do things that are difficult to do now? No, I still go on hikes and have family time. I guess this goal has no purpose other than to lose weight, which is in itself not a terrible purpose to have. But this realization takes the pressure off a little. Yes, I need to keep losing weight, but there's no specific thing I can't do in the meantime.

Sidenote: Weight loss update. About 6 lb in less than 2 wks. That's a lot better than the 1 lb/wk goal that the doctor gave me, so hopefully I'm doing something right.

I feel like asking myself "Why?" more often is probably going to be helpful. I already do this sometimes when I'm being conscious of my negative emotions, but definitely not enough, especially with positive emotions. When I'm feeling frustrated or angry, asking "Why?" might help me identify what it is that's affecting me. Then I can either accept it or change it. If I'm feeling happy, asking "Why?" might help me focus more on those things in the future.