I don't know what I don't know

[Shin]

You know that we love you

That's all you need to know

?

Edited May 27, 2019 by Shin

[jbram2002]

46 minutes ago, Shin said:

You know that we love you

That's all you need to know

?

<3

@Bill W I am open to any insights you want to share. Even if I sound closed at times, I want to be open to learning what I can. So, even if I push back on a few things specifically, I want to say anything goes here as long as it's shared from a place of love or aid.

I definitely have body image issues. I generally ignore them because in my opinion, what I look like is far less important than what I feel like. When I was in high school, I deemed myself unlovable based largely on my body image. Mandy showed me otherwise. Now I share that story with people I meet online who think they're unlovable as well. 

Massive congratulations on your 8 months. I have a few friends who have struggled with addiction. I feel like I have an addictive-prone personality, which is one reason I'm extremely hesitant to attempt any sort of drug, even prescribed or OTC ones sometimes. I can't imagine trying to shake a drug addiction on top of my addiction to overeating and being comfortable. I wish you the best and eagerly await your further insights.

[DrewNows]

theres a lot to explore and you get to decide how deep you want to go, always baby steps. I know and like how you used a hypothetical example as it makes this less personal but also gives you something valuable to work with. Each of the following paragraphs went directly under your paragraphs. Please note im not trying to personally attack you in any way, just giving my perspective and ways you can go about it 

im sure it is healthy as a couple to share your problems and work together to accomplish your goals. In the example your wife doesn't have time to take care of the dog whenever she had agreed to carry out that role/duty. Once you notice, you gladly take care of it if you have the time, but i wouldn't NOT bring this up later on in conversation if she doesn't apologize and or thank you for helping her out. 

yes we are all creatures of comfort to a degree. Perhaps you wish to expand this comfort zone in your desire to be more open and do things you have never really done before simply for your benefit (which equals hers). This is another challenge in of itself. Practice makes perfect in all new activities. How often do you encourage and support her vs criticize/judge? (question you can answer to yourself) 

Is it possible to create mutual trust and communication to be most effective as a team? 

To improve your relationship with yourself, this will improve your marriage, something very challenging to see from your pov. How, actually, going deep into your own psyche, understanding your beliefs which you discover through looking into your focus and reactions to particular situations, this is the byron katie process for changing your beliefs to change behavior. You are two different individuals with unique values and perspectives so working together will not exactly address your inner work. 

Stop neglecting yourself, if you are worrying about the uncontrollable then look into what exactly makes you think this way. Effort has to be mutual for your relationship to flourish again. Figure out how you may have played a part in the problems, then explore what beliefs you hold, then use the byron katie method of questioning them. (i have not given you the method)  

You continue to make her responsibilities your problems which means you may not trust her to do her part or at least reach out to you for help when she needs it. And you might hold the belief that because you put her first, she should put you first. If this is the case then you would want to figure out why you think you need to put her first. Please ignore what isn't true as i share a perspective and some possibilities 

links to judge your neighbor worksheet and one belief at a time: both byron katie 

http://thework.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/jyn_en_mod_6feb2019_r4_form1.pdf

https://thework.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/onebelief_Eng.pdf

IF you wish to see her process in action, search her on youtube (its very powerful) 

2 hours ago, jbram2002 said:

Since I've already written a novel here, I'll skip on to the last paragraph - I know I definitely have a lot of blocks and limiting beliefs. I'm working on trying to push past some of them. Let's take getting in shape as an example. Despite my best efforts, I still constantly feel like it's futile. I'm never going to be at a healthy weight. I'm never going to be even a moderately good-looking person. I never have been in my adult life, or even in high school. So for me, working towards those goals is as useless as David fighting an army of Goliaths. There's only so many lucky shots he's going to get in before he's overrun. I just went to a checkup and the doctor said I've gained 24 pounds in 4 years. That's 6 lb a year, which is nothing. But it adds up to 24, which is a lot. He said if I cut 500 calories a day, I'd lose about 1 lb per week. Again, that sounds like nothing, but over the course of a year, it's 50 lb, assuming there's no curve. If I lost 50 lb, I'd still be overweight, but I'd be a lot closer to where I want to be. 

But I look at that and see that I can't do "enough" to reach that point in the amount of time I want (obviously ASAP or instant, which is impossible). So every time I think about that, I try to force my mind towards the 1 lb per week instead of the 50 lb issue. 1 lb is doable. 50 lbs is not. I look at the 50 lb and think it's futile. I (probably obviously) don't like talking about it as my self-esteem when it comes to looks is basically zero. But it's important to deal with. I can't just ignore it, but I also find it extremely hard to look at it positively. I just see the negatives. If I don't fix this, I could get diabetes and cost the family hundreds of dollars a year. The inverse is we save money and the wife is happier with how I look, but those simply feel less pressing than the overwhelming negatives.

haha the novel is nauseating! What beliefs will you need to let go of and what mindset and actions will you need to take for change? If you were to envision the strongest version of yourself, how exactly would you think, act, and see/project yourself to be like?  

Edited May 27, 2019 by DrewNows

[jbram2002]

@DrewNows Apologies for not getting back to this sooner. My mind was torn in a dozen places yesterday, and I wasn't able to give this the consideration it deserves. I think there's a lot in your post that I can benefit from. I wouldn't mind digging into this more, but I also need to consider her feelings on things too. There's a lot of things I don't feel free to share publicly. 

I'd never heard of Byron Katie before now, but a lot of it sounds like a deeper insight into projections and misconceptions. I think most of what you said is pretty accurate. I definitely want her to put me first, at least partially because I (try to) put her first. I also feel like I need to put most others before myself. At the same time, I'm lazy and don't want to move outside my comfort zone, so I have limits on what I'm willing to give to others. So both sides of that coin are semi-hypocritical.

As for your last sentence... I don't think I've ever thought on that. I'm honestly not even sure where to begin on that one. 

[jbram2002]

I asked the wife what one thing she would want me to do to be more physically attractive. She said lift weights. My mind said "Shit. That's the one thing I didn't want to hear."

Soooo I guess I now need to look into weight-lifting stuff. That, or decide I don't care about being at all physically attractive to her.

[Bill W]

@jbram2002 Outside some of the deeper stuff around what you really want and/or what the wife might want of you health/appearance wise, there is always the option of picking up an exercise regime regardless. While you/me/we/wife/forum are debating the more intricate complexities of the human condition, you could start picking up your exercise and work out other stuff later. The gym, local park, your running shoes, or weights equipment doesn't care what your wife thinks or that you feel physically unattractive. It's just there waiting for you to start moving. 

You also get to deal with that awkward beginning phase of exercise where everything feels really difficult and too hard. This is one of the best parts, as the only way is up and you might not plateau for a while, it will just be up, up, up if you plan it right. 

I'm assuming you don't do much exercise right now, but I might be wrong. 

Maybe wife didn't think much and just answered "weight lifting" as she felt she best say something. 

I can't imagine if you do something outside of weight lifting for your physical health she will say "oh what a waste of time, I told you to focus on weight lifting".

It's about momentum, that's my final thought here!

Edited May 28, 2019 by Bill W
Removed jokingly used swear words

[jbram2002]

Recently, we've been trying to walk together for about a mile each day. I previously did some exercise videos a while back for a few months, and I wanted to get back into them after the winter was over. Instead, we took up walking, which I feel like we've been pretty consistent at. The videos and exercises made me feel like garbage, like I was weak and worthless. That didn't improve even after doing them nearly daily for 3-4months. And since I can't have loud videos playing in the middle of the night and waking everyone up, my only option was to do them in front of everyone. It wasn't just awkward. It was painful. 

One of the biggest things that annoyed me was that the guy in the video would constantly say things like "focus on why you're doing this." My reason why was so I don't get diabetes or a heart attack and die. Focusing on not-dying isn't exactly an encouraging thing, especially when you're feeling half dead during it anyway. And of course, complaining to the wife doesn't help anything. 

There are honestly several moments where I'd rather just die and get it over with than deal with more of the pain side of it. But I can't. Exercise, to me, is not a beautiful enjoyment of the body or a journey towards improving oneself. It's medieval ritualistic torture or self-flagellation. But if I say that to the wife, it's just me being dramatic. It's very difficult to force my mind into a position of "hooray, I'm getting better!" when at the moment, I just want it all to stop.

[Bill W]

It's good your honest as it helps me at least try and put myself in your shoes. The saying that there is more than one way to skin a cat comes to mind in terms of exercise and achieving health goals. A fair bit could be achieved with the walking. Many people don't even do that. 

[jbram2002]

I'm trying to be brutally honest with myself in this journal... that last post was far more open than I want to be publicly, but I need to be open in order to fix myself.

I found a video from a different instructor. He's really boring and seemingly has zero personality, but he explains things well and doesn't ask me to picture my goals every 14 1/2 seconds. It's kinda funny how after every exercise, he says "great job." in the most mundane and bored voice I've ever heard. I'll see if that video challenges me or not. Walking plus weights is probably healthier than walking alone. 

Oh right, I can just post the video.

Mandy, don't be alarmed at how short it is. He says do it three times.

[DrewNows]

You’re just scratching the surface but it’s good you’ve gotten the wheels rolling. Bill is right, no need to over analyze your methods for “getting in shape”. You gotta commit 100% to doing something even if it’s minimal, every day. Inner work and getting healthy, loving yourself all go hand in hand. It will be a long journey of a life time and it won’t be easy but you will have moments where you experience breakthroughs that change your life forever. 

Doing what your wife wants you to do will not make you happy. I recommend watching the last video I posted in mirror, mirror as it will point to some deep insight to be had. 

Anothe thing to consider. People have this idea of working out as being a form of suffering to reep the benefits just like any other sort of job we do for money but it really doesn’t have to be this way. It doesn’t always have to be pushing your limits or killing yourself. You can actually participate in it more like playing a video game where you enjoy watching your body progress slowly and figuring out its limitations. Much pleasure to be had, the suffering is simply your resistance to change and adaptation 

also ive watched 1000s of hours of videos on fitness and I’d recommend athlean x if you decide to go weight lifting route. He offers some good body weight work requiring no equipment too

keep being honest man especially notice when you’re scared, that’s when we lie to ourselves 

 

 

[jbram2002]

Quote

Anothe thing to consider. People have this idea of working out as being a form of suffering to reep the benefits just like any other sort of job we do for money but it really doesn’t have to be this way. It doesn’t always have to be pushing your limits or killing yourself. You can actually participate in it more like playing a video game where you enjoy watching your body progress slowly and figuring out its limitations. Much pleasure to be had, the suffering is simply your resistance to change and adaptation 

Intellectually, I understand this... but I have yet to experience it. Exercise feels like a chore at the best of times, and as I said earlier, often feels like torture. Inflicting pain on the body daily with the hopes that eventually, you'll inflict less pain. Oh, but that's usually when you're supposed to increase the weights and, as you said, push your limits. 

One of the cool things about video games is that if you don't like the character you made, you can just make a new character. That's not an option in life. I didn't get a chance to save state earlier so I can redo the last few mistakes with what I know now. Heck, not sure I'd even be able to do anything differently.

Would you mind linking Athlean X?

Edited May 28, 2019 by jbram2002

[DrewNows]

What specifically do you want a link of from the channel? No equipment workouts? 

How long would you play a game that’s been hacked to have all bonuses and levels unlocked and nothing more to do but fuck around...

some people learn to like pain but what I’m suggesting is learning to like/be okay with discomfort for the bigger reward 

[DrewNows]

What the mind often so easily forgets/disregards is that your body is your own unique game, nobody else is able to play/experience it. Don’t let others hold you back from experiences the full mystery/puzzle that is YOU

in other words don’t let anyone full dictate how YOU do you 

Edited May 28, 2019 by DrewNows

[jbram2002]

I think my problem is that I really, really don't want to improve my self-esteem or body image. Part of that is because there's no easy fix. I can't just say "Oh, I get it!" and it's done. Heck, even if I paid for liposuction or something, it's still not a "fix." I'd be back to where I am in another year.

But now I feel I have to, or I could die. It's not that I'm afraid of death; it would just be terribly inconvenient. Mostly to those who I leave behind. Mandy asked me "why now?" in regards to all this. From her perspective, it's sudden and unexpected. From mine, it's been brewing for a long time. But I simply don't want to do it, so it's hard to make myself want to do it.

@DrewNows If you could just link the channel, that would help. I can go from there.

I once played Mass Effect 2 and 3 on Insanity mode. Not sure if you're familiar with the game, but it's the hardest difficulty. I had told myself I wasn't talented enough at video games to do something like that, so I decided instead I'd just try. Why not? The only way I could beat any level was to bash my head against it and figure out what I did wrong, then go back and fix it. Oddly enough, the hardest enemies were generally the weakest ones. In normal playthroughs, they seemed like just a waste of time or fodder. In Insanity, they were harder than some bosses.

Spoilers for ME3: the final enemy you fight is the weakest enemy in the entire game. Except you've basically been stripped down to your weakest state. You can barely move, so your normal method of kiting them around until they're dead is impossible. In order to win, you have to hit every shot perfectly. I have terrible aim. After trying for about 20 deaths, I accidentally despawned him without killing him. I think he ran into a loading zone or something. I beat the game on a bug.

I don't know why I mentioned that, but what you said made me think of it for some reason. But what I enjoyed about this extremely difficult game was that A) it was all a learning process, and B) I was able to accomplish something that's difficult and few others could claim (ego). The implications of B are probably obvious. With A, I find that I'm most comfortable or happy or enjoying myself when I'm learning. Doing rote repetitions isn't learning, and a lot of the time, the instructors don't really bother to tell you more than a phrase or two and make you figure it out yourself. Being in the middle of nowhere like we are, I'm unable to actually go to a gym and have someone physically show me a lot of these motions and what I'm doing wrong. I've asked Mandy about ten times to help me with yoga, but she's busy and has better things to do and wants me to be independent on this.

You say that the body is a unique puzzle or game. It feels to me that I got Battletoads. Nobody likes playing Battletoads. It's an ugly game, doesn't control well, and is so frustrating that you want to give up after the first level, if you even get that far. The only enjoyable way to play it is to TAS it, from what I've seen. What happens if you simply don't want to play the game you've been given? 

[DrewNows]

Bingo. There’s another fucking breakthrough. How well do thoughts of anticipation serve you and how accurate to they actually tend to be? What purpose do thoughts serve without experience to go with them? 

Battletoads hahaha! There’s your thoughts anticipating again. No way you could know indefinitely what your game will be like and what it may or may not develop into before you give it a try.

remember thoughts aren’t the enemy unless we turn them into our obstacle. This is the Information Age, if you truly want to learn something nothing is stopping you from putting in the effort. And I mean NOTHING 

Btw I’m not sure how to link the athlean x channel on my phone but you can simply type it into the search bar  

[tsuki]

Despite our differences, I wholeheartedly cheer on your efforts. I know how difficult this is. You're the man.
I love the dark souls series. It didn't teach me to love pain. It taught me to watch my mistakes and try again.
Strangely enough, I only make progress in it when I am playing for the sake of playing - enjoying the views.
If I desperately want to get somewhere, prove something to myself, then it becomes a chore.

Dark souls is a game where death is a given, and this realization brings peace that makes space for enjoyment.

[DrewNows]

@tsuki haha there can be no success/progress without mistakes and failure 

[jbram2002]

@tsuki That's about how I felt when I was playing ME2-3 on Insanity. It was quite enjoyable to feel the progress with every turn. Learning from every failure. In that game though, I was enjoying the experience of grinding it out and learning. I truly enjoyed every aspect of the game, and I always knew that a death was my own fault. Failure was inevitable, but so was success with enough effort and perseverance. 

@DrewNows I feel like anticipation makes things worse a lot of the time. Law of Attraction says you'll probably get what you're asking for, and I'm asking for pain and to hate everything. And hey, that's what I get. The problem is, I have a hard time figuring out how to change this pre-conception. Unfortunately, it's not as easy as flipping a switch.

[DrewNows]

@jbram2002 it can be. Stop feeding the anticipation thoughts, take them like a grain of salt and throw your whole attention and being into the process itself, let go of the outcomes and you let go of the resistance/pain

[DrewNows]

What I’m sharing with you is exactly what I needed to be sharing with myself. What is it you need to share with yourself? (Give that some thought)

you’re fully capable of self actualizing every single moment 

btw thanks for helping me realize this  ✌️

It's so ironic to realize the entire time i spend "helping/assisting" you develops into simply helping myself 

however it don't mean you haven't received some value to take into your own consideration aye man 

Edited May 28, 2019 by DrewNows