I don't know what I don't know

[jbram2002]

It's only 1 pm and today is already shaping up to be a shit day. All I can do is attempt to be positive, but it's tough when I feel anything but.

[jbram2002]

I'm not the biggest fan of Jim Carrey, but this is an interesting video for sure.

[jbram2002]

People keep saying you have to love yourself before you can love others. In my experience, that's the biggest crock of shit I've ever been fed. If I focus on myself, I forsake those who matter most. If I love myself first, it's at the expense of others. 

Only by loving others first can you truly experience love. And then you realize that loving others is how you love yourself. If you focus on loving yourself, you can't focus on loving others or what's truly important in life.

But a lot of people are focused only on loving themselves. That's how we get unnecessary arguments and fights. That's how we get excessive mental masturbation. All we're doing is caring about ourselves, and we forget to care about those who are really important.

Almost everybody loves themselves. From a suicidal person who loves themselves so much that their surroundings aren't good enough, two people who think that they are so important or so good that no one else can live up to them. Loving yourself cousins fights, wars, and hatred. I would almost suggest that loving yourself is the single greatest cause of pain in the universe. Not only on yourself, but on the others you inflict it on. And then people decide to go on retreats, or stay by themselves, or ignore the world just so they can focus on their own love for themselves.

And that's truly sad.

[tsuki]

Some people treat feelings as a barometer of the group's well being. These people treat them as means to connect with others and understand them by 'becoming' them (empathizing), or 'influencing' them (harmonizing).
On the other hand, some people are driven by feelings and become individualistic. Paradoxically, this individualism can be a bonding factor, but this bond is expressed through giving space. 

When you love yourself and your interests diverge with another person's, then this divergence is not laced with hate but with compassion. You understand that the other person loves himself too and only does this because he has to. We don't choose what we feel towards others, so in this sense, we're all victims of this disagreement. This conflict becomes impersonal in the sense that it is not about me, but about each of us trying to cope with harshness of the world to the best of our abilities.

If we're fortunate enough, our abilities let us solve problems through cooperation, or compromise and violence becomes the last resort. If I truly love myself and am able to connect with others, the interest of the group becomes a factor in my well being, so it's only natural that I care about them as well.

Loving yourself is just as valid in spirituality as loving others.

Edited May 15, 2019 by tsuki

[jbram2002]

 

 

 

13 minutes ago, tsuki said:

You understand that the other person loves himself too and only does this because he has to.

And this is the fundamental reason why loving yourself first is the worst thing you can do. You are driven by what you feel you have to do. It's entirely ego-based. There's almost no positive. When you only focus on loving yourself, you miss out on everything that's truly important, and when people try to reach you while you don't love them, you shut them down and push them away.

Loving yourself is the best way to be alone. 

[tsuki]

19 minutes ago, jbram2002 said:

And this is the fundamental reason why loving yourself first is the worst thing you can do. You are driven by what you feel you have to do. It's entirely ego-based. There's almost no positive.

The exact same thing can be said about the attitude towards life where you only do what you think you should do.
Being driven by thoughts is exactly as subjective and individualistic as being driven by feelings.

19 minutes ago, jbram2002 said:

When you only focus on loving yourself, you miss out on everything that's truly important, and when people try to reach you while you don't love them, you shut them down and push them away.

Loving yourself is the best way to be alone. 

"When you only focus on thinking for yourself, you miss out on everything that's truly important, and when people try to convince you while you don't believe them, you shut them down and push them away.

Thinking for yourself is the best way to be alone. "

Instead of opening up to what I just said (which is not in opposition to what you wrote by any means) - you declare approximately half of the world's population as 'the worst thing [to do]". How exactly is that not "ego based"?

The difference between us is that I can see our commonality while you highlight the difference.

Edited May 15, 2019 by tsuki

[jbram2002]

Quote

When you only focus on thinking for yourself

That's also not what I'm saying. I'm definitely not saying thinking for yourself is the way to go because that's also not showing love. Thinking only for yourself is the same idea as loving yourself first. It's all egoic and self-centered.

We have too many people who are focusing only on themselves at the expense of everyone else. It's how you destroy relationships. Only when you actually open up to people and love them do you actually find a real relationship. All this self-centered egoism is one of the worst things you can do.

[tsuki]

2 minutes ago, jbram2002 said:

That's also not what I'm saying. I'm definitely not saying thinking for yourself is the way to go because that's also not showing love. Thinking only for yourself is the same idea as loving yourself first. It's all egoic and self-centered.

So, you can't think for yourself and you can't feel for yourself? You're supposed to give everything to others?
How do you contribute anything to the group in such a setup instead of being a freeloader? How do you oppose injustice?
How do you decide to whom you give yourself if you have no faculties of your own left?

[jbram2002]

@tsuki I didn't say that either.

You can think and feel for yourself. But those are not your primary goals. Your primary goal is to help others since you love them first. That doesn't make you a freeloader. That doesn't make you a bystander. That doesn't make you an invalid.

Instead, it makes you the first to want to help others. It makes you the action point. It makes you the one people turn to for help. By loving others first, you can find yourself. By loving yourself first, you'll never be able to connect with All. By loving yourself first, you struggle to accept the help or gifts from others. You're too focused on your own feelings and thoughts to hear or sense others.

Edited May 15, 2019 by jbram2002

[jbram2002]

 

 

 

23 minutes ago, tsuki said:

You're supposed to give everything to others?

Yes. Everything. But that doesn't destroy or belittle who you are. It makes you who you are.

[tsuki]

1 hour ago, jbram2002 said:

You're too focused on your own feelings and thoughts to hear or sense others.

You're just too much fun ❤️
All I'm saying is that loving yourself is just as valid as loving others.
Despite loving myself I can make space for you while you're denying the validity of what I'm saying.

You're not fighting with me, but with your misconceptions about me.
Instead facing them, you created philosophy that alienates a huge portion of Earth's population.
It must be horrible to live in a world like that ❤️
If you knew how to love yourself, you would give it up.

I originally responded with a genuine intent, but now I'm having so much fun that I suspect that I'm just picking on you.
This is where I'll stop. Have a nice day ❤️

Edited May 15, 2019 by tsuki

[jbram2002]

Sorry, it's obviously not written well on my part, but I'm not trying to poke holes in your personal belief or criticize you personally. The "you" in that statement was meant as a more general "you" than just you specifically. I don't mean to be fighting with you. I'm probably just venting other frustrations on you since you're here.

But I think my points still stand when looking at the average person. One typically is told to love themselves, and they'll eventually love others because of that. I've seen that philosophy fail far more often than it succeeds. I'm sure it works for a small handful, though. I doubt it would work for me since it never has in the past.

[mandyjw]

My friend recently got into watching Teal Swan videos and said one of her videos that had a huge impact on her had a challenge to ask yourself for every decision you have to make, "what would someone who loves themselves do?" So for the past few hours I've asked myself that question, just for little things. I'm more likely to take care of myself, to forgive myself, to take the time to clean up after myself and be present instead of letting it pile up for later. It reminds me of the flylady system, the mentors I'd follow on youtube would keep saying that leaving messes for later and not following your routines was not loving yourself. They always used the cliche advice how on an airplane if there was an emergency you are always instructed to put on your own air mask first, then help your children and others to do so. Jesus said to take the log out of own own eyes first. I believe that that is what self love is. Ultimately we cannot help ourselves without helping others and vice versa. 

When I get too focused on helping others, i help no one. When i get too focused on myself, I help no one. It's with love and interconnection with being that any fulfillment is felt. 

[jbram2002]

I got complained at today for not posting in my journal. There's a few reasons why I haven't. One is that I just haven't had much to say. I'm busy doing lots of things, and those things have taken priority over writing here. Another is I'm just a bit mentally tired at the moment, which isn't really something cured simply by a night's rest. 

But tonight, before I head off to bed, I should probably write something down. The biggest block I currently have to writing religiously in this journal is precisely that: I don't want this to be another religion. I've lived in a religion that was a borderline cult. I don't need to experience that again. I don't worship the same gods as this religion does. I don't have the same dogma. I don't follow the same rituals. 

There's a difference between trying to better one's own spirituality and joining a religion. A religion is all about the rules: you must meditate an hour daily and listen to the great teachings of the wise and powerful Leo. Religions have gatekeepers and purposeless rituals. I've seen all of that here: people meditating solely because they need to fill a quota and not because they believe it's helpful for them; people shouting down opposing ideas simply because they are enlightened and the other side is assumed to not be. I don't want to be a part of that.

There's a lot of good that can come from this community. But there's also a lot of bad. The rules here are lax (perhaps a lot more so than I'm generally comfortable with), and arguments are encouraged even when they stray from helpful debates. Leo randomly swoops in and yells at people for being the devil, or decides for them that the only path forward is if they take mind-altering drugs. Leo is not my savior, and I feel no need to take his communion.

And because of this, I've been largely quiet. I've been working on my own things. I still have a massive ego problem as I desperately want more recognition for the hard work I'm putting in. I'm cranky because I'm trying to change my diet and habits for my own health, while at the same time, my ego hates that I'm giving it less attention. I want things how they "should" be, and then I remind myself that they should be as they are, and I want it changed. I want my child to sleep in her own bed for once instead of eating up an hour or more of my free time every night while I try to give my wife a break while she's exhausted. And, of course, I'm dealing with a spontaneous spouse who has ten years of preconceived notions about me that are hard to change, and so she doesn't want to talk to me even when she's feeling lonely or misunderstood. It's easier for her to talk to someone else, ignore my feelings, or even just ignore the family entirely to go off on her own spirit quest while I juggle two screaming kids. But her retort to that is the three plus hours a day she has to deal with it.

The thing is, I know what I need to do to improve, or at least some of the things. There's probably about a hundred different things I need to do, and I can only do so many at once. As an example, if I focus solely on mentally fixing my ego issues, I neglect my physical health and my relationship's health. And so I'm trying to do all, and I've never been that good at juggling. 

So here, I got my journal entry in. I'm sure you'll see it tomorrow morning at 4:30 am or some other ridiculously early time. We all have things we need to improve, and I'm trying. But there's going to be rough days before everything is perfect. 

[jbram2002]

I had a realization this morning. Somewhere between yelling at one person for wanting to put up a paywall and describing to another that Jesus isn't a religion, I began to notice something that probably anyone else finds obvious. 

I don't talk about myself. 

This is a self-improvement forum, and I use it to point out flaws in others' thinking. This is a place where I need to focus on myself, but all I do is point fingers. 

In the past, I've always been discouraged from talking about myself. I learned that it was arrogant, selfish, self-serving, and that those things were evil. I learned to help others before I help myself. I learned the advise given in an airplane where you affix your own oxygen mask before your child's was simply wrong. 

I don't know where exactly I learned this. Maybe I taught myself as a way to keep myself at arm's length. If I don't see my problems, I don't have problems to fix. If I'm helping others, I'll magically be better myself. I don't have to waste time on myself. 

But that's stupid. I'm stupid. I'm flawed. I have big gaping holes all over the place that I've covered up with pretty pictures. Nothing to see here. There's no man behind the curtain. There's no black hole of emptiness hiding behind my accomplishments. I'm fine.

I need to focus inward more. Mandy was telling me this last night, and she is right. She is amazingly insightful and I'm ever so lucky to have her in my life. I've been focusing on anything besides me, because focusing on me is hard. I'm doing what I can, but it's not enough. I feel that it's not enough, and I resent that it's not enough, but that doesn't change the truth. 

I can still help others, I think. But not by pointing fingers. And it shouldn't be my priority here. Maybe it's ok for it to be a priority elsewhere. I'm hiding behind a Persona that everyone here can already see through. It's a thin, silly Persona anyways.

[jbram2002]

I watched a video about the law of attraction last night. Well, five videos from Abraham-Hicks. I had a hard time focusing down on what she was saying in that video because she spoke so quickly. My brain kept saying "I wish she spoke slower so she would be easier to follow" or "I wish she would have it all in one video instead of spread across five so I didn't have to hear that intro and outtro back to back every 8 minutes..."

But those things didn't matter. That was just my brain trying to pull me away from what was being said.

More importantly, I found I had deeper questions that seemed to get passed by. The Law of Attraction is basically the same as a verse in the Bible. Matthew 7:7-8 says this: “Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened." The Bible goes on to talk about how if someone asks for a fish, would you give him a stone instead? No, you give people what they ask for. I never thought of this in an opposition manner. If I focus on the negatives, I'm probably just going to get more negatives. 

But here's where my questions started to get ever so slightly below the surface: How do I fix negative things without focusing on the thing I want to fix? If I see that I'm lazy, how do I fix that laziness without focusing on fixing the negative? I suppose one method could be to focus on what you want instead of the laziness: the sense of accomplishment, gaining money, having things done around the house etc. But if I only focus on things being done and I'm still too lazy to actually get off my ass and do it, what did that solve?

Another way to look at it: If I see a flaw in my relationship, how do I fix that without pointing it out? I can try to change myself, but I can't change the other person. I can't even suggest a change to them without pointing out the negatives even if I say it as positively as possible. Also, isn't it sometimes useful to point out things we dislike so the other person can avoid them? 

Let's say hypothetically that my wife and I have a dog. We're trying to divvy up responsibility for the dog. I agree to take it out at night time and feed it supper while she agrees to take it out in the morning and feed it breakfast. Then a week later, I find out that she hasn't taken the dog out or fed it breakfast even once. There's two ways I can "fix" the problem. One is by simply doing those chores myself. When I wake up, I can take the dog out and feed it breakfast, and when I get home, I can take it out and feed it supper. But that's not what we agreed on, and it puts responsibility on me that I wasn't ready for. Maybe I'll eventually start to resent having a dog or the fact that my wife doesn't do anything to help with it. The other option is to point out that she's not doing her part. This will probably lead to an argument in the short term, but the goal is to fix things in the long term. If we have the argument and she ends up doing her part, she could start to resent me for starting an argument over something so minor, especially when it's obvious that she's busy in the morning and doesn't have time to do what she agreed to do. (There are obviously more options such as switching chores, but let's ignore those for simplicity.)

In both scenarios, the person giving up their side of the agreement is unhappy. Law of attraction states that I brought this on myself by focusing on the negative. I noticed a problem, and by focusing on the problem even while trying to fix it, I caused more pain and unhappiness. If I try to fix too many problems too quickly, I'll just compound this pain as well. But ignoring the problem doesn't fix it. The dog is still shitting in the house and starving. Ignoring a problem just makes it worse. So my second important question is: How do I use law of attraction and not ignore my problems? I currently only really have two ways of taking care of problems: fixing them or ignoring them. One of them doesn't do anything about the problem and the other seems counter to LoA?

[DrewNows]

(Id like to explore this with ya) 

First off we can question if it's really our problem. Then is it something out of our control? I am not sure if you are familiar with Byron Katie's "the work" but it helps us work through negative thoughts/beliefs by questioning them from different angles so we can actually see if they are true. It really is a beautiful process for eliminating our mistaken truths, even the subconscious ones. 

I think we get conditioned to see "problems" as bad and solutions to be difficult and arguments to be a given. Maybe it is possible to simply question the negatives then create positives for LoA. For your example, can you see how you've made her problem yours? Not necessarily bad but maybe it’s  possible to simply offer support, encouragement and communication without having an argument

im not so big on the loa but i do think it is necessary to address your "blocks" before attempting to "change" through it. If you aren't able to completely believe/see yourself as achieving abc, address the limiting beliefs, so you can adopt the mindset necessary to produce/cultivate abc 

Edited May 27, 2019 by DrewNows

[jbram2002]

I'll just reiterate that this particular problem is hypothetical because I don't feel comfortable sharing actual issues that Mandy and I have without her permission on it, so there's maybe a little bit of specific thinking below that doesn't really apply super well, but I'll do my best

So, is it my problem? In the example I've given, I could say it's not my problem. But if the wife is looking for more assistance with housework and so on, then housework in general becomes my problem. I could STILL say it's not my problem. I don't care if the house gets a little messier, or in this scenario, I don't have to clean up the dogshit, so does it really affect me? Nah. BUT it affects someone close to me, which in turn affects me. If I can do something to make her life easier, I want to help out.

But being an egoic and selfish human, I only want to help out if it's within my comfort zone. I've been previously scolded for saying I'm a creature of comfort. So there are some things I'm simply uncomfortable doing. As an example, Mandy grew up mowing lawns with her family, and I've mowed a lawn a grand total of once in my life. We have a big lawn. Standard gender roles say I should mow the lawn, and she should do other things like cook and clean, but she is far superior in lawn-mowing than I am to the point of being able to criticize my inept attempts at mowing the lawn. In that way, I'm outside my comfort zone.

Second question: is it out of my control? Again, with this specific instance, it's not out of my control. I could take on both halves of that chore, but I would feel bad for it. In that scenario, my feelings would be directed at the fact that we had an agreement that she broke. However, if the dog needs to be taken out at noon time and I'm 40 miles away at work, that one is completely out of my control. I can't simply take over if I have to drive an hour and a half to do so. 

Other instances where this might apply better to my actual situation... sometimes I feel like I'm working really hard at improving myself (but I'm actually focused more on improving us - this is a separate topic I need to address eventually as well). I'm doing a hundred things such as eating better, exercising more, being more open minded, trying to keep my mouth shut when it's not appreciated, etc. Each of these things is very difficult for me to do. But I look at what she's doing for "us" and I see very little. She's focused on herself, which is not in itself a bad thing. She knows I feel this way because I've told her. But it still hurts because I want "us" to grow at the same pace she is, and that's not happening. 

So that one very well might be out of my control, even though it's something I desperately want. So in my trying to improve things, I've been focusing on suggesting she do ABC while I'm doing XYZ. But she's not open to most of those suggestions for a wide variety of reasons (some of which I can't really get into). Instead, I need to focus on my things. But at the same time, I'm worried that if I focus on my things and she focuses on hers, there's no one focusing on the rest of the issues and that they could end up growing to a major problem.

I suppose not all "problems" are bad. But there are some problems that should be addressed. For example, the piles of dogshit growing and growing. Someone has to clean that up, and if sits for a while, even more problems can happen. Floors could be stained; kids could get sick. I'm not saying this particular problem is happening, but other problems with consequences just as bad could happen. So in this case, how could I question the negatives and create a positive out of it? The dog still needs to be taken care of. What's the positive side of ignoring an issue and letting it fester?

Since I've already written a novel here, I'll skip on to the last paragraph - I know I definitely have a lot of blocks and limiting beliefs. I'm working on trying to push past some of them. Let's take getting in shape as an example. Despite my best efforts, I still constantly feel like it's futile. I'm never going to be at a healthy weight. I'm never going to be even a moderately good-looking person. I never have been in my adult life, or even in high school. So for me, working towards those goals is as useless as David fighting an army of Goliaths. There's only so many lucky shots he's going to get in before he's overrun. I just went to a checkup and the doctor said I've gained 24 pounds in 4 years. That's 6 lb a year, which is nothing. But it adds up to 24, which is a lot. He said if I cut 500 calories a day, I'd lose about 1 lb per week. Again, that sounds like nothing, but over the course of a year, it's 50 lb, assuming there's no curve. If I lost 50 lb, I'd still be overweight, but I'd be a lot closer to where I want to be. 

But I look at that and see that I can't do "enough" to reach that point in the amount of time I want (obviously ASAP or instant, which is impossible). So every time I think about that, I try to force my mind towards the 1 lb per week instead of the 50 lb issue. 1 lb is doable. 50 lbs is not. I look at the 50 lb and think it's futile. I (probably obviously) don't like talking about it as my self-esteem when it comes to looks is basically zero. But it's important to deal with. I can't just ignore it, but I also find it extremely hard to look at it positively. I just see the negatives. If I don't fix this, I could get diabetes and cost the family hundreds of dollars a year. The inverse is we save money and the wife is happier with how I look, but those simply feel less pressing than the overwhelming negatives.

[tsuki]

3 hours ago, jbram2002 said:

Another way to look at it: If I see a flaw in my relationship, how do I fix that without pointing it out? I can try to change myself, but I can't change the other person. I can't even suggest a change to them without pointing out the negatives even if I say it as positively as possible. Also, isn't it sometimes useful to point out things we dislike so the other person can avoid them? 

If I may suggest something: problems that persist and are seemingly unsolvable are usually a form of codependece that can be fixed by changing either of the two parties involved.

[Bill W]

Hi,

First posting on someone's journal (I think). I've only read the last entry and some of the very first entry as I don't know the etiquette on what to post or not on someone's journals. I guess it depends on the original poster. You seem to be flexible on this? Please guide me. 

Loads of real life problems you list. I've seen some of your other posts as well. You seem quite pragmatic and curious which is how I like to think I am. By the way, I'm a mental health nurse who took a special interest in type 2 diabetes and weight loss.  I know I don't look like a nurse from my Avatar. I'm really interested in health related behaviour change but that's not something I want to overly display on this journal. I've only read one and a half of your entries and feel like I have loads in common with you. I'm going to try and link the similarities in further down the line. 

I can tell you I'm new to the Bible and Christianity. Haven't identified myself as a Christian, but am exploring. I'm a recovering addict who has been clean for about 8 months. I've been in the Bible most days for the past few months. I also have body image issues quite badly, but I am not saying you have. I thought I sensed a flavour of that from you though. I also often only really help out if it's in my comfort zone. This is something I am trying to better myself on. Your Avatar is about humility. Humility and openmindedness are my most treasured values. Working hard on these. I've just finished typing up my favourite Bible versus on Humilty, Compassion and Forgiveness. 

What else briefly...... yeh with the Leo thing. There's tons of stuff on here I think is nonsense, but that could be down to my ignorance. I'm trying not to rule anything out. Equally, I'm learning a lot from being on here. Loving it so far. 

I'm going to read the whole journal before I go any further.