I don't know what I don't know

[Truth Addict]

@jbram2002

Yeah, that's totally true.

The happiest life is the one without expectations.

[jbram2002]

I was told that I should watch Gladiator the other day. Part of the reason, I assume, was so that I would awaken dormant forces within me that would make me "capable" of violence. In nondualism, violence isn't "bad" per se. There are times where violence is necessary, such as fighting to protect your family. But it's an element I have eschewed since elementary school. To me, violence is usually childish and cowardly, especially when directed at someone you know to be weaker. One never looks up to the school bully. One never respects them. They fear them, and fear and respect are not the same.

With this in mind, I began to watch the show. As a side note, I haven't finished it yet because my computer decided to crash when I had about half an hour left, so please don't spoil the end. That said, I'll probably spoil a few things below, so click away if you haven't seen this movie that's almost 20 years old. These are a few of my initial takeaways:

The main character Maximus shows us right at the start of the film that he has several important qualities: Emotional control in the heat of the moment, extensive knowledge of battle, an innate ability to command respect even from those who disagree with him, an intense love of family and country, nearly excessive amounts of humility, and faith in a higher being and purpose. Throughout the film, these qualities remain evident and are consistently reinforced, even though Maximus is a very dynamic character that bounces between highs and lows. From a characterization standpoint, Gladiator is a beautifully written film and Maximus is a fantastic character.

Also right at the start, the film promises to be brutally violent. The movie is honestly borderline gore-porn for how much violence they put into it, from seeing maggots infesting a wound to watching people get skewered left and right. That's not generally something I prefer to see in movies I watch, but after the first few minutes or so, you get deadened to the excessiveness of it. However, no one respects anyone for the violence they show (up until Maximus becomes the Spaniard at least). Violence is seen as either a necessary evil for the good of the country or as a symbol of weakness and cowardice. In the first half hour, we see another of the main characters (the Emperor) trying to copy Maximus's violent tendencies several times. He tells his father that he will slaughter a hundred bulls in honor of the battles, and his father almost rolls his eyes at the stupidity of the suggestion. He argues with his father about violence for some time, then eventually chokes his father to death. Over the next several minutes of the film, he exercises violence through others in order to get his way. At this point, the only aggressive violence shown that would be taken positively is his sister slapping his face, but then immediately submitting to him as the new Caesar.

One of the most poignant moments in the first half of the film is when Maximus returns home to see his family killed and strung up for him to find. He cries at this, as is something anyone would do, but instead of the well-curated Hollywood crying we tend to expect, this is messy and ugly. He has snot dripping from his nose, mixing with the dirt and blood in his beard. And yet, it felt right. This was an overwhelmingly sad moment for him, and he showed that emotion beautifully. I said earlier that he exercises emotional control. At this moment, he had no reason to stay his emotions and let them go uncontrolled. It's one of the few times we ever see this.

Maximus is then captured by slave traders and sold to a gladiator-trainer. He refused to partake in the bloody training so as to not harm anyone unnecessarily. You can tell he was planning not to fight in general, but once he got to the arena, that was impossible. We see the person in front of him literally piss himself in fear, but Maximus doesn't give in to his fear, knowing that to do so was to already give in to death. But he still did the minimal effort possible in order to survive, and didn't understand why the crowd hated him, saying his famous line after a few battles: "Are you not entertained?!" Afterwards, his owner told him in order to win his freedom, he would need to win the crowd. From that point on, he became a true gladiator, making the crowd love him.

In his first battle in Rome, Maximus organizes the scared competitors in a wildly uneven fight and leads them to victory. Caesar enters the ring after the battle to inspect the victors. Maximus had a broken arrow that he was going to use to kill Caesar, but before he could, a young boy (Caesar's nephew) joined them. This was another instance where Maximus controlled his emotions, refusing to kill a man when he might end up harming an innocent. The next battle we see, Maximus spared a fallen foe even when Caesar and the crowd demanded blood. But the crowd loved him for it, and Caesar hated his mercy. We see Caesar wallowing in his emotions: his fear, hatred, lust, and never able to control any of these things. The movie is painting a clear distinction between Maximus, who is manly because he is able to control his emotions even in the arena, and Caesar, who can't control anything without resorting to the threat of violence. Caesar looks childish, immature, impotent, ridiculous, whereas Maximus is beloved, masculine, and shown as obviously stronger in all ways.

I feel like the person who told me to watch this film may have missed this message. When one gives in to their emotions, they turn into a babbling fool. They are impotent and weak, unable to do anything but command fear. Caesar held no one's respect. He just controlled the men with swords. Maximus, on the other hand, was praised for his ability to utilize his emotions wisely, to bolster his allies. Outside of battle, conversations with him focus on the good of Rome, remembering his family, learning about his faith. We almost never see him exercise emotion rashly, except when he first sees Caesar's sister and is overcome with vengeance. At that moment, the movie highlights his weakness as he is chained to a wall and completely powerless. And he later admits he was wrong and has the rendezvous she requested.

No one loved Maximus for his violence. Anyone can be violent. They loved him for his mercy and composure. What is the worth of a man when something as debilitating as anger can control him?

Edited May 7, 2019 by jbram2002

[tsuki]

The difference between Maximus and Commodus is not that one gave in to emotions and the other controlled them.
The difference is that Maximus is internally firm and integrated, while Commodus needs external validation from women and the crowd to feel empowered.

Maximus is a complete man that seeks no trouble. He protects his home for the best of his abilities, and his abilities are great. He is a general that leads armies of Marcus Aurelius. When his family dies, he does not 'give in' to grief because there is no point to withhold it. He gives in, because he is overwhelmed. He knows that he has no reason to live, but he continues because he is furious. His wounded animal does not let him kill himself because it seeks blood. This is what is right.

Commodus on the other hand is blind to his wounded emotions and tires to act like a man. He is wounded because of his busy father's neglect and is pressured to act because of expectations that are placed upon him. He yearns for his father's approval, women's approval, crowd's approval.
He unconsciously tries to rule the same way he sees others have control over him. Through fear, manipulation and intimidation. Through emotional wounding. He does not see that he spreads his incompleteness like cancer and in doing so, makes the state unstable, paranoid.
He tries to distract it with violent games, but it only hastens his demise.

A perfected mind does not know what to think. It is able to hold any thought, no matter how cruel, blasphemous or revolting it is. The mind does not discern what is right or wrong. Emotions do. A man is a mediator between what he feels and what he thinks. Thoughts are the raw material that he uses to create. This is why Maximus always knew what to do and this is why the crowd and his armies loved him.

There are moments when the animal nature takes over and this is when a man knows that something is important.
Sometimes, what's important is tending to the frightened animal's wounds but a mind cannot know that.
Maximus knew that his fury is right because he was hurt unjustly. There is no reason in the world to kill a man's family out of revenge. That is a sign of weakness and the state that has been entrusted to him cannot have a weak ruler. His fury is righteous.

Stoics are not bloodless husks that feel nothing. They only feel what's necessary and wise.
This is why Marcus Aurelius chose Maximus over his son (at least in the movie).

[mandyjw]

Funny how two different people see the same movie and see themselves in the same character but in different ways. 

@jbram2002 just described spiral dynamics as "the color scale of self-righteousness" 

 

[mandyjw]

wrong journal! sorry

Edited May 8, 2019 by mandyjw

[jbram2002]

11 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@jbram2002 just described spiral dynamics as "the color scale of self-righteousness" 

 When I say that, I mean it can be used as such. It can also be a very useful tool. We just need to ensure we're using these scales as tools and not ways to be superior to others.

4 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

I asked my dad what element he was. He said fire. Mom is earth for sure. I wish we got along better. She has such rigid expectations for how women should behave. 

It's stuff like this that makes me wonder if you're more Air than Fire. You feel very opposed to Earth sometimes. 

[mandyjw]

@jbram2002 The earth doesn't like to be scorched. It's fine with air. 

[jbram2002]

Last night, I was thinking about objectifying (as a topic) and trying to identify moments where I may have done so. I don't ever intend to treat someone like an object, but I do find that I get frustrated with others sometimes when they fail to meet my expectations. 

But then my brain did something weird. Instead of saying "objectified," it said "objectivized." Instead of making someone into an object, I realized that sometimes I make people into an objective: a personal goal that I selfishly want for myself. When I reduce a person down to what I can get from them, even if I have good intentions, it's probably just as bad as objectifying them altogether. 

This objective could be a wide range of things from relationship goals to getting my lawn mowed to forcing someone else to conform to my thinking or ideas. But unless the other person is on board, this objective can be extraordinarily self-serving and blinding. When I objectivize someone, I put my goals ahead of their feelings and might trample all over them. Even if I take the time and effort to recognize their feelings, it doesn't matter until I reach my objective. 

This sort of thing makes us think we're being selfless and helpful, but we're just meeting our own goals. Maybe we need to forget about our plans once in a while and listen to what the other person wants.

[jbram2002]

 I think what I don't know about this revelation is what I should do with it. Knowing that I make people into an objective is one thing, but having goals in life is also generally looked on as positive. Should I ignore my goals with respect to others, or should I embrace them, but ensure they do not outweigh the goals of that person?

This gets particularly tricky when the goals are considered "noble." I want to get closer to my wife and build up our relationship. I want to help somebody else see something that I see in them. But what if the other person is not interested? Or what if their methods of obtaining the same goal are completely different and may be incompatible with mine? I find that this is where I get into the most trouble recently.

[jbram2002]

This isn't really a spiritual thing, but I've decided to go on a only-drink-water kick for a week (still eating normally). I tend to drink a fair amount of diet soda which I know is less than healthy. And as crazy as this sounds, I really dislike drinking water. 

So far, I've gone a day. And it sucks. I can constantly taste the last meal in my mouth since the water doesn't have enough flavor to wash it away. I'm starving since the water has no substance. I'm tired and low energy since the water has no caffeine. 

But Mandy tells me these are probably signs that it's... working, for lack of a better word. I need to focus on something other than how much I dislike drinking water, but it's not easy for me. I'm a creature of comfort, and even something as insignificantly uncomfortable as this messes with me constantly. And so it draws me back to a question I've had for a while: 

How do I stay present when the present sucks?

If I'm running for exercise and I get severe shin splints, how do I remain present in the pain? If I'm tasked with a boring or painful chore, such as shoveling the snow off our driveway, how do I stay present? The pain tackles me and shoves me off the path, and my ego takes over full-force, grumbling constantly. "I shouldn't have to suffer pain. Someone else would enjoy this far more." And so, I wallow in misery during that time instead of embracing all the positives. I cannot see the positives in a snow-laden shovel while my back feels like it's on fire. 

This next week is a different sort of pain, but the discomfort still exists, and so does my egoic grumbling. Sometimes I wish I could just shut him up so I wouldn't have to listen to his bullshit.

[tsuki]

2 hours ago, jbram2002 said:

So far, I've gone a day. And it sucks. I can constantly taste the last meal in my mouth since the water doesn't have enough flavor to wash it away. I'm starving since the water has no substance. I'm tired and low energy since the water has no caffeine. 

But Mandy tells me these are probably signs that it's... working, for lack of a better word. I need to focus on something other than how much I dislike drinking water, but it's not easy for me. I'm a creature of comfort, and even something as insignificantly uncomfortable as this messes with me constantly. And so it draws me back to a question I've had for a while: 

Of course it's working.

You can blame water for not being tasty enough, or blame your meals for being too tasty.
You can return to drinking soda to wash the taste off, or start eating better .

2 hours ago, jbram2002 said:

How do I stay present when the present sucks?

If I'm running for exercise and I get severe shin splints, how do I remain present in the pain? If I'm tasked with a boring or painful chore, such as shoveling the snow off our driveway, how do I stay present?

Start distinguishing between pain and suffering.
Pain is a sensation and it does not speak. The only quality of pain is that it is very intense, overwhelming.
Suffering is when you let the pain get to the mind and let the mind talk in reaction to it.
It starts to go off into the future and come up with schemes about how to prevent it, how you would rather do other stuff.
Instead of thinking, just focus on the sensation of pain. It will be much easier to stomach it this way.

2 hours ago, jbram2002 said:

I'm a creature of comfort

Stop repeating this nonsense, you're only making it worse this way.

Edited May 13, 2019 by tsuki

[jbram2002]

@tsuki I definitely have a habit of adding "suffering" to my pain. I know that it's all my ego trying to make things worse... but I don't know how to turn that off. Or even if that's possible. It's part of why I dislike exercise so much. I can't stand the pain, but the "suffering" that happens during and afterward (and sometimes even before) is even worse.

Edited May 13, 2019 by jbram2002

[Zigzag Idiot]

I've admitted to my tendency in the past of being a complainer and being blind to the utter uselessness of it. It is something which still returns at times, like when I'm under a lot of stress. Complaining is unnecessary suffering.

I like this video Serotoninluv shared in his Journal. It speaks to this idea of things that are slow healing. As well, It speaks to why our inner state can change so drastically from deficiency back into fullness and flow when the light of Consciousness touches on a shadow issue and healing occurs. It helps me to understand the ups and downs of life. Especially while engaged in the process of shadow work. Next week some other issue may rise to the surface from the subconscious but being aware of a larger frame of reference and how healing can sometimes play out by sitting with issues can give one some space in which to let it happen.

 

[jbram2002]

@Zigzag Idiot thanks for the link! This is probably the one thing I have the biggest struggle with right now. Perhaps if I can break through this, I can move on to the next step.

[jbram2002]

Since it's tough for me to dedicate any amount of time to listen to Leo's 2-hr videos, I decided to stop waiting for the opportunity to present itself and to simply do my own research on Spiral Dynamics. I found a handful of quick tips and images similar to this, so I'm curious where I lie on the spiral.

I feel like it's clear to me that I'm above Blue at minimum, although I definitely remember when I was Stage Blue and Orange. I would like to think I'm Stage Yellow, but it's quite possible I haven't reached that level yet. Also, yellow is such an ugly color. I definitely need to move on to the far-superior Turquoise!

The one thing I'm not so sure about is the left-hand descriptor. I don't feel like I live a chaotic life, but I do accept that change is inevitable. That's why I think it's possible I'm only Stage Green instead, since I'm not sure I've embraced chaos quite to the extent this is saying. Chaos seems to be a somewhat negative (relatively) state of being, despite it permeating everything around us. Having kids kinda pushes you into a chaotic state, and I've probably pushed back on that for far too long.

[jbram2002]

Quote

Level 6 GREEN (F-S) relativistic: harmony/love, joining together for mutual growth, awareness, belonging

Emerges in response to the excesses of E-R, can’t do it on my own and need to collaborate with others, group membership highly valued, tolerates ambiguity through encountering diverse perspectives, requires trust, doesn’t want to hurt others; high empathy and sensitivity to others – everybody counts.

Level 7 YELLOW (G-T) systemic: independence/self-worth, fitting a living system, knowing, good questions

Demands flexibility, autonomy, accepts paradoxes and uncertainties, self interest without harm to others, curiosity, learns from a variety of sources, contextual thinkers, can see things but not always be able to explain them, great awareness of what they do and don’t understand, punished by conventional education and corporate structures; not motivated by fear of survival, God or social approval, guilt and reward motivators don’t work – seeks to do well without compulsive drives and ambitiousness.

Hmm... would a stage Yellow person still "require trust" like a stage Green? I know I'm not really motivated by a fear of survival, God, or social approval anymore, and that guilt and reward motivators only work if I let them. Guilt motivators hardly work at all, but I can allow myself to be motivated slightly by certain rewards, although it feels less like a reward and more of a "here's an added bonus."

Edited May 13, 2019 by jbram2002

[mandyjw]

You're stage green. Otherwise you'd appreciate my ever so slightly racist jokes and let me watch Trump speeches and documentaries without screaming at me for it. 

[jbram2002]

@mandyjw That did happen over 2 years ago. Live in the present.

[mandyjw]

That was last year.  

[jbram2002]

@mandyjw See, that shows how good I am with time. It's all in the past.