I don't know what I don't know

[jbram2002]

3 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@jbram2002 Remember that night we had to clear all the stuff out of the house so they could renovate the upstairs? Remember all the fighting in the rain? Demolition and construction can't take place until you take all the shit out. 

I remember demolishing our living room ceiling before we cleaned the shit out. That was nasty. The shit rained down on our heads. But at the same time, it was pretty clear just how shitty the house was at that point.

Then we cleaned it up, and the place is fantastic. 

Edited May 3, 2019 by jbram2002
Or was it our bedroom? Eh, it's all part of the same house.

[jbram2002]

@tsuki I almost want to try that deconstructive meditation, but at the same time, I'm pretty sure that would mess me up a bit lol

[tsuki]

9 minutes ago, jbram2002 said:

@tsuki I almost want to try that deconstructive meditation, but at the same time, I'm pretty sure that would mess me up a bit lol

Oh, right - you're afraid of pain. How is your comfy life serving your avoidance, hmm?

[jbram2002]

@tsuki Pain is mental. I cause myself more pain than anyone else does. So if I focus on not being in pain, my comfy life can get pretty comfy. Instead, I focus on sharing the joy of each present moment. And then I often fail and cause myself pain anyways because I'm human.

[mandyjw]

You wouldn't have ever wanted me if you didn't secretly like pain. 

You just haven't figured out that the counterintuitive truth that embracing pain is far better than running from it. 

[Zigzag Idiot]

29 minutes ago, jbram2002 said:

A sincere question: what is the goal of meditation?

I was always told that you had to empty your mind and let the thoughts float past without grasping at them. It's definitely a calming practice, and I use deep breathing if my emotions are taking over to great effect. But I've also heard that they can provide great insight. How does one obtain insight if their mind isn't allowed to grasp the thoughts that surface? Is there a point where one should stop meditating and begin pondering? If you don't ponder a passing thought, how do you write it into your memory? 

Or is there a form of meditation that actually requires deep thought? Are you supposed to spend the time searching within your mind to determine the truth? Or is this just an egoic fallacy?

My twice a day meditation is Centering Prayer. It helps me touch base with being an empty vessel and inner quiet.

Sensing practice- Intermittently sensing the feet dusting the day helps reinforce this by staying grounded in the body.

Mindfulness practice of collecting scattered attention is another one which I describe as cleaning and sealing the atmosphere of my luminous egg. The visualization helps in this. Helps with Impartiality and not getting distracted or reactive.

Taken all together allows for insight to arrive when it's needed but I don't allow it during Centering Prayer. For me In Centering Prayer, even if a vision of Jesus appeared holding a out a golden key,,,, it would be, not now man, wait till I'm done.

[Zigzag Idiot]

Remove duplicate post

Edited May 3, 2019 by Zigzag Idiot
Remove duplicate post

[tsuki]

23 minutes ago, jbram2002 said:

@tsuki Pain is mental. I cause myself more pain than anyone else does. So if I focus on not being in pain, my comfy life can get pretty comfy. Instead, I focus on sharing the joy of each present moment. And then I often fail and cause myself pain anyways because I'm human.

Pain is unavoidable. You either integrate it, or suffer.

[jbram2002]

@Zigzag Idiot To be fair, Jesus needs to be mindful of our schedules sometimes

So your Centering Prayer is mostly clearing the mind, if I understand it correctly? How do you handle insights that happen then? Just ignore them and let them pass? Is there a point where you feel it's worth it to stop the meditation and deal with an insight? Obviously you said Jesus himself wouldn't stop you, but why is that?

@mandyjw I'm still learning. It's a painful process.

@tsuki It's impossible to avoid all pain, but it is fully possible to avoid some pain. Many people cause themselves unnecessary pain by blaming themselves or others, or falling into depression or anxiety traps. A positive outlook can lessen the pain significantly. For example, I could see that my wife has male friends online and fall into a trap of jealousy, inflicting excessive pain on myself, her, and her friends. Or I can accept it, realize that I have female friends online, and be joyful that she has found people she can interact with that give another perspective than I can share. One of these options is a pain that is entirely unnecessary, but a close-minded individual may fall into that trap very easily.

[mandyjw]

There is a point where bravely suffering pain becomes self flagellation and the ego tell itself that it is purifying itself because deep down it believes itself unworthy of experiencing pleasure. 

Wisdom is knowing is where that point is, and we usually don't find it until we self flagellate a little bit. 

It's all in good fun. 

[Zigzag Idiot]

17 minutes ago, jbram2002 said:

@Zigzag Idiot To be fair, Jesus needs to be mindful of our schedules sometimes

So your Centering Prayer is mostly clearing the mind, if I understand it correctly? How do you handle insights that happen then? Just ignore them and let them pass? Is there a point where you feel it's worth it to stop the meditation and deal with an insight? Obviously you said Jesus himself wouldn't stop you, but why is that?

?

Short Answer -- To develop the capacity for "objectless awareness." Use of a sacred word with the Centering Prayer technique,,,, every thought gets let go of,,, practicing kenosis,,,,

Long answer -- Brilliant explainer Cynthia Bourgeault giving a talk at a SAND conference. She's a long time student of the Gurdjieff Work, has a Phd, and is one of the first women ordained as an Episcopal Priest. So in a way I see her as a current day Alan Watts.  

26 minutes 

 

[jbram2002]

@Zigzag Idiot Thanks for the video. I'll try to fit that into my to-do list soon  I'm not sure if I'm ready for that step yet when I'm not exactly consistent with normal mindfulness or meditation though.

On a different topic, I was opening up Youtube for my lunch hour, and this video from Teal Swan popped up... I probably need to watch this at some point.

 

[Zigzag Idiot]

@jbram2002 I started the Teal Swan video and,,,, yeah, me too! So I'm watching it now.

[jbram2002]

 The prequel to the previous video. Possibly even more useful.

[jbram2002]

https://i.imgur.com/1jNGmVV.mp4

I took a walk in the rain to an intersection of a brook and a river. This place has been calling to me for a little while now. The last time I walked past it, I started to walk out to this spot, and the wife waved me on. This time I was alone.

I stood here for an unknown amount of time. Maybe 20-30 minutes; I didn't keep track. As I was walking this way, my mind was whizzing with my thoughts on a conversation I was having. When I stopped here, my thoughts drifted down the stream, and I was at peace. I lowered the hood on my jacket and let the rain pour over my head and face. 

Water is my element.

I finally tore myself away to head back, and the same thoughts returned as if there had never been a break in my thinking. The same song that was echoing in my mind, the same reasoning I used to explain my position. I couldn't get it to leave, so again, I lowered my hood, letting the rain pour down on me. This time, the thoughts were still there, but they quieted. Only once or twice did I think about how I was getting soaked, how someone driving past would wonder why I'm walking with my perfectly good hood not on my head. Those things didn't matter.

Water is my element.

[jbram2002]

 

[jbram2002]

Unfortunately, today I didn't get much chance to focus on my spiritual journey. I did get a chance to see the Avengers movie, which I won't spoil. I'm not sure if mundane pleasures should theoretically be shunned, but ya know, I enjoyed it, and I was grateful for the time to go watch it. The theater is a solid 40 minute drive from our house in a city that I'm not a fan of, but today, that didn't matter much. The theater is this tiny hole in the wall place that has the sun shining into the screen whenever anyone opens the door to use the bathroom, which in a three hour film, happens fairly often. But I wasn't as bothered by it this time as I was for the last movie I watched there. What did bother me was that I had to cough, and I didn't want the entire theater of about 30 people to hate me for it (Yeah, small town here).

I feel bad for my wife though. She was stuck at home with no car and two kids. I offered to stay home, but she told me to go. Sorry honey D:

I ate at the most mindful aware restaurant as well: McDonald's. I typically grab a booth with a one-seat-wide table so I don't take up too much room. The exhaust fan from the soda machine was blowing on my seat, and instead of moving or getting frustrated with the hot air blowing on my face, I just focused on being present and feeling the air. I dunno, it was weird. I'm weird, guys. 

But hey, I'm ok with that.

[tsuki]

Huh, someone deleted their journal again...
Fickle little creature .

[Truth Addict]

@tsuki New journal, new chapter.

[jbram2002]

It wasn't me! I'm just as lost as you are lol

Had a very interesting afternoon. Lots of disappointments, lots of great things happened. Expectations sometimes make things less enjoyable than we would want. I'd go in depth, but I highly doubt most of you care about things like OWL, D&D, etc. I need to go into things with fewer expectations. I learned this with gaming... if I went into a game with a preconceived notion of what to expect, I almost always liked the game less than if I had new clue what to expect. 

On the plus side, had a nice family walk. The water was amazing today.