No duality between crazy and sane

[mandyjw]

So I'm a bit shy to post this, but I was just working through Leo's most recent video and I he mentioned this very topic so i thought that maybe the time was right to talk about it.

I had an awakening a few weeks ago. Couldn't eat, couldn't sleep was guided through it by someone on the forum here. When I was a kid I knew that I was insane. Later I talked to my friend who had read a book about a kid with OCD and I knew then that that was what was wrong with me. 

The impulses were sometimes to go do things or say things that I had no logical reason for doing. The impulses latched on to my strong religious beliefs and told me to accept the devil into my soul and I was incredibly tormented by those most of all. The told me to confess things to people. I made myself very ill confessing to my mother something about getting naked with other kids a child. 

I realize now that I could have given into it, and awakened as a kid and saved myself a lot of pain. But I probably would have landed in the mental institution. I didn't have the support then that I needed of the background of understand that Leo's videos have provided as well as many others. The impulses I had, they weren't intrusive thoughts but rather they were intuition on how I could awaken and see the world as it was. When I started this work I really loved the idea of having a clear mind or peace of mind. I didn't realize that my resistance to turmoil and painful thoughts was my ego. 

I had a spiritual opening with the death of my Grandmother. I realized that she was unconditional love. Holding her hand when she died and then touching her dead hand in the funeral home later changed something in me, although at the time I felt nothing. I thought I would be stricken by how different she felt dead than alive. I wasn't. 

Now I find myself in a place of not being able to meditate or still my mind. This isn't what I thought it was. I got here the exact ass backwards way that I expected to.

I can't do the "work" anymore. It's all play to me. Nature speaks to me in ways that it always has but now I'm free to hear it.

Still, I feel a lot of guilt and "shoulds" over abandoning the practices. The nature of my job is a highly focused meditative/creative one. I don't know if I should just go straight into that, or really focus on spiritual "work". There's no difference anymore!  It's all a state of mind/no mind I guess. 

 

 

[Aaron p]

Be careful, your ability to judge can be helpful. Don't think going insane is a good thing. That'll turn into an excuse for your mental illness if you have any. Just acknowledge that your going through something. These practises bring change to one's life, and like giving birth, it can be quite painful but it's worth every drop of blood and sweat and every moment of suffering.

From my glimpses, this isn't something mearly human. Imagine *actually* walking into the real presence of the actual God that created everything. And it didn't matter what you believed or what you thought, the raw, exposed presence of God, so powerful that it isn't something you observe, it becomes you. I've had a few visions of it lately 

[mandyjw]

@Aaron p AARON. No duality between insane and sane. What does that mean to you? 

We are ultimately seeing different sides of the same coin I think. 

[Inliytened1]

@mandyjw Hi Mandy

Well i have had Pure OCD my whole life..obsessive thoughts and mental compulsions.  

Those of us wired like this tend to get lost in too much thinking and concept.

But in some crazy way (no pun intended lol) i noticed that at the time we are deeply spiritual and sensitive..and loving.  When our OCD isn't giving us monkey mind on steroids we actually can be quite spiritually gifted.

Its a very interesting paradox or duality if you will.

That said...when i had my enlightenment experience as I've talked about a lot on this forum it was pure certainty.  OCD melted away.  It was pure bliss.

So i would say that yeah it's in our nature to be pulled away from actuality (spirituality which includes meditation) to getting lost in concept whether for good or ill.

So i think there needs to be a balance and i would encourage you to try and not lose that balance between actuality - Being with a capital B - ie formlessness and form.  

There needs to be a sort of unification of the two which of course requires the spiritual work.

So keep on chugging

Nice to talk to you as well i will check out your actualize me post on the other section as well..it looked interesting.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Robi Steel]

If you are in the ripe stage to leave practices behind you will know and feel it 100%. There will be no question about, the gravity of the present moment will overpower any practice that you do, practice will not be necessary because you are practising non-stop naturally. If not, you are playing tricks on yourself. 

Concerning the longing of doing illogical or insane things is completely normal. On your spiritual journey you should realise that there is no such thing as "sane" behaviour, its all equally senseless. With that you should come to the realisation of your inner death, once you realise there is no right or bad thing to think, no rational or irrational thought, this should turn your head into a black hole for thoughts and naturally death of your being comes.

Many egos will try and throw scary things at you with their last breath, to bring you back in delusion. "Youve actually gone insane now, insane, insane". Be brave

Edited April 30, 2019 by Robi Steel

[mandyjw]

@Inliytened1 It's really nice to hear from another actualized OCD person! Mine didn't disappear, I still have to follow it. I give myself some grace when I don't want to or delay. It almost always leads me to a realization or sign. It's still a pain in the ass sometimes though.

@Robi Steel Wow, thank you. I love your signature quote as well.

The end of Leo's latest video which I just finished was really encouraging.

I have a really big issue with trailing off while speaking, I actually started making videos on youtube to try to fix it. I'll just dump thought spontaneously mid sentence and have since I was a kid. I'm starting to wonder if this isn't actually some sort of power too, my empty-headedness. I still need to learn how to speak through it though.

I'm going to try to do as Leo said and progress slowly. I went too far, too fast with meditation. I've got all these books on deep subjects and I'm just overwhelmed. I think our brains are all wired really uniquely and unfortunately that means we can't follow any map.

Edited April 30, 2019 by mandyjw

[Inliytened1]

@mandyjw mine didn't melt away for good either it was just during the mystical experience which lasted a few weeks.  

It came back with the Ego

 

[mandyjw]

@Inliytened1 What type of things does it tell you to do/think? Examples?

[Truth Addict]

@mandyjw

Amanda ❤️

I hope you're feeling better by now.

I love you, I always have, and I will always do. If you ever need someone to talk to, you know where to find me.

Now, unless you have a strong desire for understanding reality, stop all of your practices, and look for your own happiness.

Happiness is the most important thing, most people go into this spirituality business trying to find happiness, but they end up deluding themselves, chasing whatever their teachers might have told them.

There's no actual need for understanding reality, others have done it for you, Jesus had done it for you ❤️

You can drop the seeking and start believing again, but this time, by choosing your beliefs more carefully and more wisely, you can believe Leo, he is a good man.

I know a lot of people would disagree with me, that's because they think dualistically.

But there is no difference between belief and direct experience.

There is nothing but the present moment.

When having a direct experience of God, most people cannot be here telling others about it.

Most people when they talk about their mystical experiences, they are actually talking about their memories (past experiences, present fantasies).

But what is memory? People don't usually question their memories, and they take for granted that they're completely true, and they place a great value on them, believing that memories are true and prior to Belief, ironically.

What I'm telling you is that if they can trust their memories, then you can trust theirs too. After all, we're all one and connected.

But, you have to know who to trust, because trusting some people can be deluding.

Pick one teacher that resonates with you the most, and trust them.

I think it's Eckhart Tolle, or Abraham Hicks.

Many disciples have become enlightened through prayer and belief.

That's because what I'm saying is true. I think Leo would agree with me, but he won't because that's opposed to his way of doing things.

I wish you all the best Mandy ❤️

I'd love to help in case I can. Don't be shy, embarrassed or anything. I'm here for you, and if you don't want to talk in public, you know where to find me.

Much love and respect ❤️

Edited April 30, 2019 by Truth Addict

[mandyjw]

@Truth Addict I so appreciate your perspective. 

[Shadowraix]

5 hours ago, Aaron p said:

Be careful, your ability to judge can be helpful. Don't think going insane is a good thing. That'll turn into an excuse for your mental illness if you have any. Just acknowledge that your going through something. These practises bring change to one's life, and like giving birth, it can be quite painful but it's worth every drop of blood and sweat and every moment of suffering.

From my glimpses, this isn't something mearly human. Imagine *actually* walking into the real presence of the actual God that created everything. And it didn't matter what you believed or what you thought, the raw, exposed presence of God, so powerful that it isn't something you observe, it becomes you. I've had a few visions of it lately 

Mental illness doesn't need an excuse it just is what it is. A concept used to identify occurrences that are seen as negative or different. 

You dissolve these concepts and you can more easily learn to be who you are. What is sane today was insane a century ago. 

[Inliytened1]

@Truth Addict yes its totally a personal choice and you are right she should pursue happiness and if forgoing spirituality brings her happiness than thats what she should do.

Those are very wise words.

That's why i don't force my wife to get into spirituality.  She respects that i do it but she doesn't believe in it because heck..that's how most of the world is.  They are materialists.

Of course you can be an idealist and not meditate..that's also fine.

I was just intuiting that there is a spiritual side to her and that she is interested in continuing the work but something is pulling her away.

But I'm just going on what I've intuited from her post.  She should pursue happiness first and foremost and you don't need to be enlightened to be happy...but for me it was everything because i had such a big fear of emptiness and looked for happiness in the "external objective world" when i discovered it was me the whole time.

[Truth Addict]

@Inliytened1

❤️

We're all spiritual, one way or another, it's just different ways of showing it, because everyone has a unique path, and because we're all divine.

It is what it is, we're all motivated by happiness and we all don't want to suffer.

Still, the ones who've gone through the journey are more likely to have a better grip and understanding of happiness and how it works.

That's where you are most valuable to others, is that you can light the way for them, and lead them to happiness.

That's kind of everyone's life purpose.

❤️

Edited May 1, 2019 by Truth Addict

[mandyjw]

I think I value collective happiness over personal happiness because this work has taught me that I AM the collective. I don't think I really have to choose. 

I'm getting much better at being able to be present with my life and not get caught in other people's pain. yet at the same time I try to have the courage to know what to do to help, even if that causes pain for the greater happiness. I was talking with my husband about this last night and I said how you couldn't be a good doctor if you tap into people's pain. You can't be there to do the greater good and help if you are caught in the empathetic suffering. it seems like a good righteous quality, but it's evil. 

That's the skill I'm working most on right now. I think Abraham Hicks introduced me to this idea in the first place. 

[bejapuskas]

@mandyjw  My family sometimes thinks, that I am insane, because I meditate  I reply: What is sane about watching TV, playing video games and smoking? But you know, this could also be recontextualized into: I meditate and become a zen devil, because I have so much pride in me. And they overcome their heaviest addictions and start self-actualizing, while avoiding my mistakes. It really is not all that simple...  Even what you call selfless intention might sometimes be just naivety.

[mandyjw]

@bejapuskas

Yep. Smoking is a meditative, mindful breathing practice. I had that insight a while ago while I was running, I have a bit of a running addiction and it's because it's an easy way for me to breath mindfully without forgetting. A lot of bad habits are just unconscious ways of trying to be mindful. Getting lost in a TV show lets us have someone elses' experiences and escape our own repetitive thoughts.  

Nobody is sane, and no one can escape from spirituality. 

[bejapuskas]

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

@bejapuskas

Yep. Smoking is a meditative, mindful breathing practice. I had that insight a while ago while I was running, I have a bit of a running addiction and it's because it's an easy way for me to breath mindfully without forgetting. A lot of bad habits are just unconscious ways of trying to be mindful. Getting lost in a TV show lets us have someone elses' experiences and escape our own repetitive thoughts.  

Nobody is sane, and no one can escape from spirituality. 

Excuse me what the fuck?  

[mandyjw]

@bejapuskas

I don't smoke but I get it. The deep breathing, the repetitive motion. 

Meditation with a substance that will kill you. Putting your current state of peace above your own need to survive. 

Very enlightening. 

[Preetom]

you're crazy if your thoughts come outta your mouth.

sane if the thoughts are not vocalized.

-society, since time immemorial 

[jbram2002]

2 hours ago, bejapuskas said:

Excuse me what the fuck?  

I feel like this statement sums up a lot of thoughts I have when reading things here I don't understand. Then when you spend a while on the substance of what was said, sometimes it makes a little more sense.

I've always subscribed to the idea that all of the best people are a little insane. It's rare that you find someone without a little bit of crazy in them. Sitting at work on the computer for 40 hours a week is insane, but so is doing hard manual labor for that long. Abandoning your home to go on a spiritual journey for even an hour is a little crazy, but so is staying at home and listening to the kids scream about getting the wrong episode of Blippi. 

Life is insanity. Embrace the crazy.