Meditation in the state of surrender

[Dodo]

We often hear some teachers say that you can't do anything to awaken/reach enlightenment, so the best thing to do is to give up searching for it. Another set of teacher says that we need to meditate for at least an hour each day until the rest of our lives in order to awaken. 

Can both these sets of teachers be telling the truth? It seems kind of contradictory, but when I looked deeper, is meditation really a doing? It's the opposite of doing, meditation is all about being, about surrendering to what is. It is the ultimate giving up. So perhaps these two teachings are not that contradictory after all. What do you think? 

[Shaun]

It seems to me that it's a pathless path as Krishnamurti said. There is talk of a boy who became enlightened at 4, one of my friends says she spontaneously became enlightened after doing no spiritual practice and Leo has been absolutely busting his balls for years and hasn't claimed to be enlightened yet.

[Dodo]

7 minutes ago, Shaun said:

It seems to me that it's a pathless path as Krishnamurti said. There is talk of a boy who became enlightened at 4, one of my friends says she spontaneously became enlightened after doing no spiritual practice and Leo has been absolutely busting his balls for years and hasn't claimed to be enlightened yet.

Well how unenlightened would it be to claim he is enlightened  If he is enlightened he wouldn't be egoically claiming to be what we all already are lol. It's pointless! It's good to stay humble

[FoxFoxFox]

@Dodo Good question. It all depends on the seeker and how mature his understanding has been in a past life. Some souls have already done the work and for them mere mention of the stuff is enough to induce an awakening. Some others need more work. 

The first idea, that you cannot do anything but to give up is truthful. All good spiritual practices ultimately lead to surrender, and only that will bring about liberation. So in some sense of the word, self-realization is an act of God's grace, and not of the person's effort.

But there is truth to the second approach as well. If you do a good spiritual exercise (for example Self-inquiry or Fox Yoga) properly that will overwhelm the mind and the body so the mind can't help BUT to become silent, and that makes it more likely for God's grace to fall upon you. So energetic intensity to the degree that it overwhelms you and allows grace to flow through you is the key. Kinda like how a conductive, charged object is more likely to be hit with lightning  

[Shaun]

23 minutes ago, FoxFoxFox said:

@Dodo Good question. It all depends on the seeker and how mature his understanding has been in a past life. Some souls have already done the work and for them mere mention of the stuff is enough to induce an awakening. Some others need more work. 

The first idea, that you cannot do anything but to give up is truthful. All good spiritual practices ultimately lead to surrender, and only that will bring about liberation. So in some sense of the word, self-realization is an act of God's grace, and not of the person's effort.

But there is truth to the second approach as well. If you do a good spiritual exercise (for example Self-inquiry or Fox Yoga) properly that will overwhelm the mind and the body so the mind can't help BUT to become silent, and that makes it more likely for God's grace to fall upon you. So energetic intensity to the degree that it overwhelms you and allows grace to flow through you is the key. Kinda like how a conductive, charged object is more likely to be hit with lightning  

That's kind of re assuring because if I don't make it in this life, then the work I've done is hopefully not wasted. It would certainly be a waste if I came back as someone who dies a slow and painful death or a worm, but at least the worm doesn't have a mind full of shit.

[FoxFoxFox]

@Shaun It is not wasted at all. There is no waste in this universe, even the scientists say energy is not create anew. Regardless, be still and know that you are God in this lifetime  

[Robi Steel]

@Dodo Yes! You got it right

To describe meditation as a discipline is actually false. It is a way of being, it is a way of digging the present or just being the present with no person, which is always the case anyway, so nothing really you can do to get there. 

The process of spiritual work is to realise that there is no process which is actually an important process. And that is why there is still a way and a process in spirituality when there really isnt at the same time. 

When teachers say, you dont have to do anything in order to be enlightened, they are right. The problem is that you are absolutely incapable of doing nothing, you cannot fathom what true nothing looks like or is. All you can do right now is be active (think, feel, behave).