Quick question about doing nothing to overcome addiction

[rorghee]

@Marinador Wait Nah let me explain much better,  i wasn't feeling guilt from keeping a secret and then owning up because of morals, it was me having a long alone internal struggle that i didnt share with anyone else due to shame and then finally having the balls to be fully honest and communicate those feelings with someone else with no remorse. Like the transition from denying something for ages to finally owning it and being open about it. It didnt even have anything to do with the person i was talking to just the fact that i honoured a part of myself that i never did in the past which made me feel in the moment choked up. More like a release of shame from honouring something i unconsciously had ingrained was not worthy, not feeling guilty about keeping a secret. The opposite of being moral and socially conditioned. Bare in mind i literally just got out of high school hahaha

Kind of like confessing your sins y'know?

Make sense or am i yet again somehow misunderstanding 

[rorghee]

@Marinador Yeah sorry i didnt explain what i meant properly earlier you get what i meant now, i appreciate your advice and ill take it with a grain of salt even though I don't think i know if i understand how to apply it but I will definetly try this out

Edited May 3, 2019 by rorghee

[rorghee]

@Marinador I dont know if Id be able to genuinely get raged up on purpose at will, is that the point of this exercise?am i meant to bring up memories or bring to mind all the bullshit in my life and work with that?

 

And, Is this rage concentration kind of like what happens in sports or is it different? Like for example I play soccer and say the other team is pissing me off, that ego anger that i feel is often useful to me as channel it into passion and concentration which is vital in a sport like that and I will probably play better. But in so many other areas of life, raging and being angry is often counter productive so yes I've definitely suppressed rage in the past, didnt know that actually expressing rage would be useful to me.

[Marinador]

@rorghee The prupouse is to concentrate to beat the addiction. you didn't want that? Try different concentration exercises, I already told you some of them and you can invent your own as i say. if you start fighting against the addiction surely the discontent will come alone, as you know it is difficult to do against an addiction. when there is discontent you are able to get raged, if there is no discontent then no. it doesn't make sense to create discontent for creating it so if you are content you don't need to get raged, just concentrate with an exercise.

Or perhaps you want to study or work or read  or do sport or do something else with this addiction energy and forget about spirituality. It is your decision to make.

"am i meant to bring up memories or bring to mind all the bullshit in my life and work with that?"

no but you can start learning little by little what is going in your head and how has your life been and gradually understand things , in the end everything is connected in one way or another, for example your addiction has not come alone, it has its causes. if you keep doing spiritual practices everything will come out with time. but its your decision to make, you don't have to stir your life if you are content with it.

 

"And, Is this rage concentration kind of like what happens in sports or is it different? Like for example I play soccer and say the other team is pissing me off, that ego anger that i feel is often useful to me as channel it into passion and concentration which is vital in a sport like that and I will probably play better.

yes but is important to direct enregy to concentration not to thinking or not to feed the ego more

 

"But in so many other areas of life, raging and being angry is often counter productive so yes I've definitely suppressed rage in the past, didnt know that actually expressing rage would be useful to me"

most people have this problem, yeah sometimes is counter productive and it's frowned upon that's why I tell you that hate is not bad but you need to know how to use and when and how it works all this concentration/energy/emotion stuff. for example if someone is crushing you do not hesitate to get raged and take the necessary actions. But if you have got discontent in your life don't be angry with people it's not their fault and is worthless, it's not worth living bitter, release it when you are alone but always direct the energy to concentration.

 

 

 

[rorghee]

@Marinador Rightttt, I understand much better now will have to put this into practice to understand more, and i do like your example of using rage, i do feel i have a bit of discontent in parts of my life and not know how to deal with the negative energy so i just take it on the chin sometimes, i usually think getting angry about something wont solve anything as well as not wanting to spread negativity not knowing that it would play out in other parts of my life later. The whole directing/channeling thing seems to be hard for me to grasp rn though

[Marinador]

"The whole directing/channeling thing seems to be hard for me to grasp rn though"

is just what you do with the energy that you have, for example if you are fully concentrated you are directing energy to concentration, if you are thinking about your problems and worries you are directing energy to the ego... just see what are you doing with your energy thats it

[rorghee]

@Marinador This is somewhat related, I've done concentration exercises in the past to help with meditation, like focusing on an object or breathing or a image in my head but found it very hard and couldn't get past a consistant 2 min, rarely i could do it for over that time, as my mind would direct itself to ego, like "hey you should be thinking about this please stop ignoring it" and the act of trying to concentrate was so exhausting and making me feel worse so I gave up after months of trying. Your explanation of energy really makes sense now that I apply it to whats happened recently

What do you think about this; 

Like a week ago I for realised that directing energy to ego aka thinking, was not the way to solve some things and instead I should direct my energy to being present and this made a huge shift from how I've been running my life for since i was a child. It's like I got my ego to work with me now it's able to let go easier and just be present. This realisation came to me because I was so tired and sleepy at the time and for some reason I was more relaxed and In a good mood and I noticed Its like this a lot when I'm tired or sleepy. Through trying to be aware of what's going on, It occurred to me that I was feeling good because I didn't have the energy to direct into thought and ego as I normally unconsciously would do and then realised that my continuous not letting go and thinking was the cause of a lot of my discontent and I was stressing myself out. 

I always thought I knew consciously how useless thought was but didnt really understand it for real and I think that prevented me from realising this sooner as I thought I already knew It, another reason to think for myself. Now I'm trying to get off cell phone and the internet and video games because that has been fueling the fire of thought and instead directing energy into being/concentrating on the present moment no matter how boring or unpleasant. Even with just that realisation I've cut down a lot on my addictions and find satisfaction in being present. I Need to be more aware of what I'm doing with my energy if I want to get over my addictions. Now I'm at a point where more of my time is free and would like to put it into gym or something I can be present in or just sitting as i mentioned. Basically learnt my addictions were a product of the way I thought. So weird I didn't even know I was putting so much energy into thinking it felt so automatic and thought there was no way to stop it, and I think is the cause for some of the earlier confusion on this thread haha.

Not too sure on how truthful or right this seems to you or any readers but It seems to make sense to me for my situation and I'm partly just using this to journal

[rorghee]

@Marinador Yeah I here you loud and clear, don't to go from one extreme to another. I don't think I possibly could if I tried ahaha. Definitely have experienced the whole thinking I have it all figured out and then falling back into my old ways then being all frustrated. You're basically saying don't get cocky and instead slowly integrate what I've realised into my life as means to avoid potential suffering and leading to giving up? 

Will keep going with my longer sits and try to be present when I can especially since I have a lot of free time sitting at home right now. I'm Not trying to go from addict to straight buddha mode, just trying to lower addictions to a healthier amount. Replace addiction time for presence time but still allow myself to be involved with things I was addicted to but not using it as a crutch. Problem is trying to figure out how to do this slowly as you said without getting exhausted but also without slipping back into my old habits - I've done both before.

16 hours ago, Marinador said:

the realization is ok but be carefull with ego, with yourself, realizing this doesn't mean that suddendly you are going to stop directing  energy completely to ego, the ego is very powerfull so you have to unbound ego very little by little, very little by little!

Yes am aware but can forget so thanks for mentioning. days after realising what i said before, I still will find myself naturally directing energy to ego for most of my day but it has become easier for me to at least consciously understand to direct my energy to presence. Rather before I didn't know wtf is going on and let thoughts run my life and didn't properly see the value of presence even though I practiced it. I now feel like I see the value of awareness and presence > thinking, when before I didn't and was just doing it out of faith that it will help.

In regards to writing do you mean just writing down what I observe and how i feel?

Sorry for the endless questions lol

[rorghee]

@Marinador

17 hours ago, Marinador said:

I already told you, in my opinion when you are calm and content is okey to have long sits doing nothing, to be present and contemplate, but when the ego is at war, when you can't shut up yourself from your problems, when you are discontent it is contradictory to sit doing nothing or just trying being present.

I previously believed that I should try and set some time to meditate every day regardless of how bad I felt or didn't want to do it (I think Leo said this) and that would be the only way to progress seriously. I was like that for about 2 years before, now I don't meditate or sit if I really dont want to, but I feel a bit guilty.  Are you saying if I have to negatively reinforce/motivate myself to meditate I just shouldn't do it? It's through guilt and feeling like I'm losing progress that the negative motivation kicks in. 

Should I try release emotion on these bad days instead of trying to continue the habit of sitting where I would whip myself into it/ end up not sitting at all? 

[rorghee]

@Marinador hm, I can relate to the things your mentioning about using concentration to overcome fear. I'm usually ok at regular social interactions, But it is sometimes difficult to let people honestly get to know me or spend time with me due to me unconsciously pushing them away because of shame and then that creates more shame and anxiety. Before I have done things similar to what your suggesting, sometimes I'd go into a bathroom or something to be alone to do a concentration exercise like focus on an object of concentration, to get me out of my head and not let fear enter and sometimes it would work and I wouldn't be anxious anymore and become this funny social charismatic guy free from fear and shame (I am able to be myself) and other people respond way better to me. other times ego wins and I can't get out of my head and shame is reinforced. Although I don't think I was facing my feelings because after a while I would be back to normal, I was just able to not indulge them and ignore them better.

Your suggestion of using rage and self love to concentrate in these moments, what would this look like in my head like I can't understand what im focusing on? I'm using anger from discontent in order to shrug off shame to focus on the present? Like aggressively saying fuck you to any insecurity distraction?  Sorry I can't really grasp this and you probably already mentioned this. 

 

this is some information about how my mind works in social situations and how I am to overcoming it 

When faced with shame or anxiety I would automatically escape from the present when faced with any unpleasantness and start thinking, fueling my insecuritys and I felt like i couldn't do anything about it, with this way of avoiding anxiety by disascioating into thought it was stopping me from getting over it. With what I realised about not directing energy to thought, I now know better how to make the choice to not run away into my head and face fear. I know it will take time and awareness to completely change this. So i think if i try and use awareness to see whats going on at these times to not run away and face anxiety or shame properly in the present I will get over social anxiety eventually or any shame social conditioning has put on me.

In the past No matter how many times I engaged in social events over the last 4 or so years I couldn't really get over it and was so confused why when people including myself would just say to go out more to get over it and I did, but it didn't help even though I had good social skills (when I'm not trapped in my head with fear). lately I have been avoiding going out all together because I know what my mind is gonna do and I wont be able to enjoy myself.I think a trap I fell into was believing 'fake it till you make it' so I pretended I was confident when I was feeling afraid and it kind of worked but in the long run fucked with my ability to be myself because I never addressed the fear,Thoughts? 

 

[Inliytened1]

This may be unrelated to the stuff you guys have been talking about, but regarding the original Post - Using the Do Nothing Technique for Addictions - one thing that i found in my own life that makes addictions so difficult to overcome is that certain triggers will set them off in the mind.

Once the triggers are set off, and you may be at work and not able to meditate, it can send you spiraling towards that addiction.  

I.E. you had a stressful day at work, triggering the craving - and you may wanna race to get home to get some whiskey (i'm not talking about myself here hehehe) and you know in the back of your mind that you do NOT want to be doing this, in fact you want to put those thoughts aside and go meditate using Do Nothing until the cravings, and that's what they are - intense cravings  - subside.

So by Doing Nothing you are suffering through the cravings so to speak.

Once you can get into the Meditation state of  Doing NOthing you have a much better chance of getting through the cravings.

It's the window between the moment a craving is triggered and whether or not you are able to stay strong enough and disciplined enough to ACTUALLY do the meditation and give in to the cravings.

If you can identify when the triggers and cravings happen, maybe every 3 days or so, so you can mentally be prepared and go Meta on them when they do, and get yourself into a meditative state to meditate until the cravings pass.

But that's basically the idea.  Eventually the cravings will get less and less.  But you have to really want to beat it.

'

Edited May 7, 2019 by Inliytened1

[rorghee]

@Marinador damn youve been a big help, and you probably are transmitting your ideas as best as possible dont mind me, just give me time to practice this but for now it just seems like ideas. 

BUT after practicing this rage concentration I think I get the rage thing properly now. I used to have that mindset a few years ago when if I feel negativity (including shame) I would be in denial and be like fuck off to it but wasn't really acknowledging it. In recent years I've tried to learn to be as real with myself as possible and that meant acknowledging shame and stuff. The act of me trying to love the negative parts of myself has made me lose touch with how to get angry with shame and instead use it to concentrate I think that's where my confusion has come from with that. I was under the impression to not hate my insecurities. I always hear things like 'resistance makes stronger' and think hating insecurity would make it stronger. 

[rorghee]

@Inliytened1 yeah man important to stay aware of the triggers, usually stress or just boredom. and of course engaging in the addiction itself which leads to more engagement in it and other addictions. I can sit for an hour not doing anything but Once I start scrolling facebook I can get lost for 30 minutes and then when I finally put it down I want to go quickly to netflix or games and cant stand doing nothing for 10 seconds. depends on how much you want to beat the addiction but if your so deep into it and unconscious it will almost be impossible because it fucks with the desire. 

[Inliytened1]

@rorghee yeah man i hear ya it's a LOT easier said than done...conceptually we can know what to do but doing it is a WHOLE other ball of wax.

But i think once you get past the threshold where you stop craving that's when you can beat it.

[rorghee]

@Marinador I know I said I think I get the rage thing but heres Just another bit of info In regards to the rage exercise you suggested. I think i understand it intellectually as an idea but I've been trying to see it for myself but It just isn't happening. When a negative feeling comes up, I can't really get raged like at all. I don't seem to get too much feeling of discontent, or if I do I can't use it to get raged. I also don't think I get the whole directing the rage into concentration. Next time I get really genuinely angry I will try to see if I can. Is there a video online about this?

So I'm probably gonna stick to just regular awareness and staying present as my way of concentration at least for now unless I experience another way that suits me to help in situations where fear takes over or just to be present. 

[rorghee]

@Marinador Just popping in 2 months later to say something about the discussion about using concentration to overcome habits,

I started getting the hang of hating insecurity without judging it and it is way scarier than I thought. I finally am reaching a point where I can feel like I'm seperate from my negative thought patterns and insecurities, where as before I was way too identified with the patterns and didn't even know what it was like to be something else so I couldn't really get that awareness. What helped me to detach was, after doing a fair bit of emotional healing, I started being able to choose to not give more power to ego and acting from this place of less ego control/insecurity, and it threatens stuff i find hard to give up. Like I have to give up my external identity of the past 5 years to be able to be myself better and it feels like no one is supporting me, but it does feel real. Still trying to convince myself that I want what is real rather than external love.