Quick question about doing nothing to overcome addiction

[rorghee]

Watch Leos vid on addiction if you dont know what im talking about

I just started doing this whole sitting to do nothing thing, i dont completely understand it 

Is paying attention to thought a form of engaging in distraction? When i sit to do nothing my mind will automatically find a way to entertain itself by overthinking i cant help but pay attention to it. Is sitting down for say 2 hours without external distraction and letting my mind overthink for ages part of the process or would i get more out of this by trying to stay present - basically meditating or is it best to literally just do nothing

 

[Jkris]

@rorghee do nothing witnessing just be are all the same just different words.

Let mind do what ever it wants just remain as an observer.when you get lost in thoughts immediately come back to observer mode.

To overcome addiction there must be a strong conviction to non indulgence.

But I think best way to overcome addiction is to be mindful of addiction.pay attention.Feel it mindfully and the craving will go.Dont resist don't fight don't try to escape from craving.Face it feel it be mindful and you will notice the craving to vanish.

Offcourse try this repeatedly when ever craving comes till the craving vanishes completely.

[purerogue]

There is other way too , forget that it even exists, that you ever had this habit, if mind wanders on it for some reason forget it again. 

Dealing with addiction by being mindful can be difficult as they will come back constantly like wave, even though it helps and can be cure if you have patience enough to repeat it long enough, it still is having minds attention on it constantly. 

Edited April 30, 2019 by purerogue

[David Hammond]

@rorghee Not really. 

[rorghee]

@Jkris Ok, Thank you for clearing that up, As a person who is addicted to thinking, the whole bringing attention back to observer state seems like im not actually doing nothing and seems like regular meditation, its confusing

[Jkris]

@rorghee one more practice is to watch the breath.Focus your attention on breathing.Inhaling exhaling.Feel the breath entering the nostril,coming out,the belly movement.When thoughts come refuse it again bring back attention to the breath.

Like wise focussing attention on I feeling.Thoughts come ignore it and focus concentrate on the I feeling.

Or The self enquiry.

To whom this thought is coming ? If the answer is me ? Who is that me which is knowing the thoughts? If thoughts come refuse it ask to whom this thought is coming.

[rorghee]

@Jkris Ok i think i figured my problem out

Doing nothing to me is misleading because i pictured it as just sitting down not doing any activity and thats it. naturally i let go my mind starts doing something as im addicted to it, the thinking activity in my mind was so automatic and effortless that it is like a task of will to just be, only through hard concentration i can do this, which to me felt like i was going against the whole 'do nothing' and caused confusion. I think im on the right track ? 

So with that said, my sittings of 'doing nothing' for a few hours should consist of the intention to not indulge in my external addictions, as well as staying present with the moment including feelings and cravings that arise and applying the techniques like the ones you mentioned to help with my thinking addiction as well as external ones.

I just want to be clear so i dont waste a bunch of time and do it properly.

[Jkris]

@rorghee @rorghee There are two types of thoughts voluntary and involuntary.Voluntary thoughts are when you want to do something you think and plan.

Involuntary thoughts are random thoughts un connected thoughts it keeps coming and going with out any effort of yours.

We can restrict consciously our voluntary thoughts or the thinking.But to restrict the involuntary thoughts it requires practice.

Do nothing :Just Be:Witnessing - Is just to be aware knowing what ever comes thoughts emotions feelings sounds.That is in short the practice is not identifying with the mind.

One has be alert else will get entangled in the thought story and its contents.So the effort required is stay alert and be just an watcher on looker of what ever arising and going.Thoughts come thoughts go emotions come emotions go.one has to watchful aware alert.No concentration.There is no particular object of concentration.

Watching mindful of breath requires effort - the effort to continuously mindful of the breath.Mindful of inhaling,exhaling,belly.So any thought is a distraction.If thought comes you loose the mindfulness of your breathing.It is a good practice to reduce the thoughts improve concentration mindfulness being in the present moment.

Same is with concentration on sense of me or I feeling.Any thought is a distraction.Negate the thought and focus on the I feeling.

Self Enquiry again is a beautiful method of questioning the mind with mind to go beyond the mind.

So try out the methods.IMO you can start with breath watching aka mindfulness concentration on the breath.

Or Concentrate on I feeling continuously giving no rooms to thoughts.Meaning if thoughts come refuse and re focus.

Plus Self Enquiry.

IMO Do nothing is not advisable.

Do nothing or Just BE or Witnessing is only for advanced people who have sufficient meditative experience and already have very lesser thoughts.or in other words prior to entering the no-thingness any effort is an hindrance and so they simply sit do nothing just be aware to go beyond.My dad used to say it is wrong to talk about the Do nothing witnessing to the beginners.

[Jkris]

@rorghee can you explain more about your thinking addiction ? What do you keep thinking about ?

[purerogue]

3 hours ago, Marinador said:

you have to realize how the mind works, comprehend it for YOURSELF, ignore all the advices also this, learn for yourself, if you start learning and reading from things that other people says, you are going to get lost and lose all the clarity, draw your conclusions from reality.

in my opinion, when the ego is at war is contradictory to do nothing, if you are calm is ok to do nothing. when you are at war writing can help a lot. hatred also is very powerful to concentrate to put the energy in concentration, in your bubble of consciousnes (MY OPINION)

My advice, first figure out what you want to do with the energy that causes your addiction,

what do you want to do with the energy that you are putting into your addiction? or the same question, where do you want to put all this energy?

 unbound ego (enlightenment)?, work?, study?, something intermediary? what?... you can do whatever you want

Remember ignore this advice, comprehend things for yourself, draw your conclusions, ignore the last advice hahahahah

He does not have to ignore advice, but it is also good advice to draw your own conclusions, to explore how it works for yourself. 

[Inliytened1]

@rorghee it takes work but its technique that led to my awakening and it was that very video that i first found that started me on this journey.

The idea is for you to look inside and find peace within yourself.  Addiction is the fear of emptiness.  And as ego's we want to fill this void with external materials.  But counterintuitively it is Being that will ultimately fend off addiction but it takes hard work.

So when you face the emptiness head on the addictive feelings pass.  

You have to keep doing it and it will get better.  It could actually lead to enlightenment too if you are also doing self inquiry techniques.  

Edited April 30, 2019 by Inliytened1

[Esoteric]

@rorghee

From Shinzen's system:

 

5. Do Nothing
Do Nothing is an approach to rest that involves little or no effort. You don’t even have to intentionally 
note restful states. It is totally passive and easy going.
This approach has been discovered and re-discovered many times and in many places, so it is known by 
many different historical names. Here are a few:
• Choiceless Awareness (term used by Krishnamurti and others);
• Open Presence (term used by neuroscientists);
• Just Sitting (according to some definitions of that phrase);
• Dzogchen/Mahamudra (in Tibet);
• Passive Contemplation (in Christianity); and
• Non-dual Awareness (according to some definitions of that phrase).
Do Nothing could also be called “The Technique of No Technique.” Because this sounds a bit self-
contradictory, you might suspect that there are a few subtle points involved in the instructions. Indeed, 
that is so.
Let’s start with the basic instructions (which are quite short). Then we can clarify the subtleties. 
Basic Instructions 
1. Let whatever happens, happen.
2. Whenever you’re aware of an intention to control your attention, drop that intention.
Now for the subtle points. There are two sides to understanding those subtleties. First, you need to
understand what the instruction requires. (Yes, there is a very small amount of doing in Do Nothing. )
Second, you need to understand what the instruction does not require (but what you might think it 
requires and thus make something that’s easy into something that’s hard).
Let’s start with the phrase “intention to control your attention.”

Sometimes your attention may be drawn to an experience spontaneously without control. The 
experience just happens. At other times, you may find yourself intentionally controlling the direction or 
content of your experience, trying to keep it on a certain thing or pull it away from some other thing. 
This is true of all sensory experience including thoughts (recall: in Basic Mindfulness, thought is defined 
as mental image, mental talk, or both simultaneously). Sometimes a thought just arises on its own. At 
other times, you may find yourself intentionally thinking about a topic, intentionally pulling away from 
a topic, or actively directing a thought after it has arisen spontaneously.
During a period of Do Nothing practice, if you notice that you’re intentionally directing your awareness, 
you drop the intention to do so. You do this whether that intentional direction involves an objective 
arising (such as sights, sounds, physical body sensations), a subjective arising (such as mental images, 
mental talk, or emotional body sensations), a restful state, or a flow state.
Notice that what you’ve been asked to drop is the intention to direct awareness. You’re not being 
asked to drop the thing that you happen to be aware of. So if a thought comes up spontaneously, you 
don’t have to drop that thought. But when you find yourself controlling that thought, drop that 
intention to control. Do Nothing never asks you to drop experiences. It only asks you to drop 
intentionally directing how your attention moves within experiences. And you only have to drop an 
intention when you happen to notice the presence of an intention, which may or may not be very 
often. So, when you Do Nothing, you may have a lot of sensory activity and you may go unconscious 
and get caught up in things quite a bit. That’s okay! Whenever you notice an intention to do anything 
about all of that, drop that intention.
But what exactly does it mean to “drop” an intention? It means to let go of that intention in that 
moment. So, dropping is not the same as getting rid of. The intention might immediately reappear over 
and over. That’s perfectly fine.
But what if you cannot drop it for even a moment? Then you don’t have to! Here’s why. We’re going to 
define intention within this context to mean something that is totally voluntary. If you cannot drop it 
for even a moment, then, by our definition, it is not really part of your free will. It’s happening to you 
and you don’t need to drop it. 
Notice also that the instructions do not ask you to continuously check for whether you’re 
intentionally controlling your awareness or not. To continuously check for the presence or absence of 
such intention would itself create a continuous intention! When you Do Nothing you may notice 
intention to control your awareness frequently, occasionally, or hardly ever. Any of these possibilities is 
fine. 
As you can see, anyone can do the Do Nothing technique “perfectly” because its goals are extremely 
modest. Of course, doing the technique perfectly does not mean that your experience of it will be 
pleasant, restful, or productive. That’s quite a different issue. A “perfect” period of Do Nothing practice 
may be essentially indistinguishable from a perfect storm of Monkey Mind.

So, what to do when Do Nothing does nothing for you? Do something else! Basic Mindfulness gives you 
almost two dozen other focus options. 
A general principle is: 
• If Do Nothing makes you too spacey, try Noting for a while.
• If Noting makes you too racy, try Do Nothing for a while.
Now you can appreciate the initial phrase in the instructions: “Let whatever happens happen.” With 
this technique, there is no attempt to achieve any particular effect. If the Do Nothing approach 
happens to work for you at a given time, pursue it; if it doesn’t, don’t.

Here are some guidelines and encouragements I give when I lead people in Do Nothing practice.
• If you have an intention to get focused or settled, drop that intention.
• If you have an intention to get centered or meditate, drop that intention.
• If you have an intention to stay with a good state or fix a bad one, drop that intention.
• If you have the intention to be clear or concentrated or in equanimity, drop that intention.
• If you drop into equanimity, good. If you notice you’re trying to find or maintain equanimity, 
drop that intention.
• If you drop into clarity, good. If you notice you’re trying to find or maintain clarity, drop that 
intention.
• If you drop into concentrated space, good. If you notice you’re trying to find or maintain 
concentration, drop that intention.
• If for a while you have no intentions to control attention, good, just hang out for as long or 
short as that may last.
• If you get dissociated or confused, let go of any intention to do something about that.
• If an intention to make sense of things arises, drop that intention.
• Remember, if you cannot drop an intention, it’s not really voluntary by our definition so you 
don’t need to drop it. 
• Remember, by definition, dropping does not require any struggle. If you have to struggle to 
drop it, you don't need to drop it.
• If you find this centering, good, that’s a sign you’re doing it right.
• If you find this decentering, good, that’s a sign you’re doing it right.

At first the Do Nothing approach might be a bit confusing and uncomfortable, but after a while, you 
may begin to get a sense that although you are not directing yourself towards something, you are 
being directed towards something. Or, more accurately, you’re being directed towards Nothing—
Nothing par excellence, The Source. The Groundless Ground. This has some similarities to Just Note 
Gone (See Chapter 8). Just Note Gone directs you to the Source. Do Nothing directs the Source to you. 
In Do Nothing, you stop trying to get to IT and give IT a chance to get to you. That’s why some people 
refer to the Do Nothing approach as “Call Off the Search.” On the one hand, the Buddha put a lot of 
emphasis on pursuing “The Noble Quest.” Which is the right point of view: Pursuing The Noble Quest 
or Calling Off the Search? Both, not neither! In an attempt to be balanced, the Basic Mindfulness 
System provides you with ways to explore both.

Edited April 30, 2019 by Esoteric

[Robi Steel]

@rorghee Look, the problem really is that you think "doing nothing" is an activity. As soon as youre trying to get "do nothing" right, you already failed. Sit and dont move, thats the only thing you need to worry about. Quitting addiction is about *not* doing a thing, just stop your active participation in the addiction. Ground yourself in yourself

[purerogue]

Actually do nothing is about cutting all sensory stuff off, everything , having your attention on nothing, having no awareness of anything, does not mean that you should not see , or hear , or even have thoughts, but ofc it can be that you will not have any of it, or have some of it, your attention will not be on them, it is not about just sitting and doing nothing. 

[Jkris]

@purerogue so how to do that ? How to keep attention on nothing ?

[purerogue]

10 hours ago, Jkris said:

@purerogue so how to do that ? How to keep attention on nothing ?

It is very difficult to do it, that is the end goal , you will probably struggle to take your attention away from any of  these things, let alone all of them. 

Look at forum if you need tips, or try to come up with something yourself. 

[rorghee]

this thread is making me more confused probably bc i worded things wrong or lacked context so ill keep it simple .

I want to lower my addiction to internet or anything that distracts me from being present that is an addiction. I just want to apply awareness to any craving that comes up by sitting and being aware not engaging in any activity for my set time - this time is much longer than my usual 20 - 30 min meditation sessions and my body will be laid back and wont be so strict on being still as i would no way be able to do this exercise otherwise. 

Also Is getting over addiction basically what your standard meditation is in different words? how is this longer sit different to what i would normally do in my daily 20 minute session? that would clear a lot of confusion

@Jkris About my thinking addiction, Due to the mindset i had for most of my early life, its like my mind habitually goes into thinking mode to problem solve my way out of a negative feeling whether it be boredom or anxiety etc. Its like second nature to think and find a way out as soon as unwanted feelings come up instead of just being present. like a coping mechanism. I know consciously that thinking wont solve everthing if anything in this part of life, in fact it makes it worse, and only recently actually became properly aware of that and am taking steps to trust myself in the present moment but its still definitely a part of how i am. and i wondered why it was so hard to be present even after 3 years of meditation

If you think i dont understand something trust me, i probably do its likely because i dont know how to word a lot of this

Edited May 2, 2019 by rorghee

[Jkris]

@rorghee Write down your list of addictions what ever it may be.First you have a firm conviction in the mind to get rid of that.

Say addiction to smoking

Addiction to internet

Addiction to junk food.

When an urge comes be mindful of it.Dont resist don't fight embrace the craving meaning pay full attention on the craving the inner resistance the urge to indulge and it will vanish after a minute or two.you have repeat the same when ever the craving comes.

To reduce Thinking and be present in the movement or carrying the meditation in life means you have to be mindful 24/7.Do every activity conciously mindfully paying full attention.It is very difficult but with strong conviction and practice that is possible.

Any emotion you have only two choice either be a witness no matter how hard it is till it vanishes

or 

embrace it feel it conciously focus your attention on it till it don't try to escape from it don't fight it don't try to escape from it no matter how hard the emotion is be it anger sadness anxiety pain boredom what ever it is.Important point is not to act out of the emotion if anger sadness pain anxiety.Till it vanishes.

Both will lead you mastery over your emotion.

The past habit of mind will try to continue what ever way it used to act before that has to be over come only by concious witnessing or mindfulness.

I hope I am understanding your confusion or question properly and given the answers.

[Ashleyy]

For me it's important to figure out why I was addicted in the first place. 

[rorghee]

@Marinador i dont fully understand some of the things you wrote about, i dont know how to direct energy from rage to concentration. i dont think ive directly experienced releasing emotion through these exercises. the only time ive noticed me release an emotion in the past was when i honestly talked about an issue with someone that i kept a secret i notice feelings of being choked up and i assume this is somewhat the same as what your talking about. and trust me i know to not rely on advice, i even try not to watch most of leos advanced videos but i do know that sometimes trusting in advice to help set up for me to see something for myself is useful, otherwise i wouldnt be meditating in the first place. All i can do for now is continue to practice being mindful of feelings as i know for myself that awareness has helped me overcome some things.