healing joints & running

[Soulbass]

hello, i hope you're well.

i would like to ask you 1 advice, regarding knee injuries.

it's been 2 months since i've stopped running, and it seems my knee can't recover.

i just do a little bit of bicycle, this hurts anyway.

the questions is : do you know medicine/food supplements for knee repair?

i don't eat animal products, do you think gelatin would be beneficial?

flax seed is my go-to omega-3, and i don't think there is anything wrong with that (i mean, whole foods plant based diet / michael greger).

in case you know something about supplements, i'd be happy to know your view on this.

i did something wrong : 15 kilometers + 600 meters sprint + 15 kilometers, in a row

peace 2 u

@kieranperez

[kieranperez]

Where in the knee?

25 minutes ago, Soulbass said:

i did something wrong : 15 kilometers + 600 meters sprint + 15 kilometers, in a row

The 600m were all out?...

I don't understand what you're trying to get with such a random workout but yeah... don't do that again LOL.

[Soulbass]

@kieranperez  i feel pain in the center of the knee, and a little bit under the patella (thumb side).

yes the 600 meters were all out, i think i shouldn't have done that because maybe "parts" of the knee got squeezed, and as i was into it, i didn't noticed the pain until i've stopped the session. i won't do that anymore, it was exceptional.

i've read on the internet, that after a sports trauma on the knee (working too hard on it) an infection can occur, while/before it's repairing.

edit: i'm looking at essential oils...

Edited April 28, 2019 by Soulbass

[Nahm]

@Soulbass Try reiki, and google foods that inflame the joints. I started noticing knee and ankle issues from repeated minimal impacts in my 30’s, and switched to an elliptical. No issues ever since, been maybe 6 years. 

[Forestluv]

@Soulbass Was this an acute injury or a chronic injury?

[kieranperez]

@Soulbass it sounds like basic runners knee. 

You need to be strength training dude. You can’t just be running. You sound like you have a weak frame.

Fortunately runners knee is very easy to fix with solid PROPER squats (feet squared STRAIGHT, as you go down up with the hips with your knees pointing out laterally) and lunges. 

Start utilizng a lunge warm-up before your runs. 

Dont get fancy with diet and stuff yet. 

Dont go into these distractions of energy work and all that stuff right now. 

You need to do your homework on training dude. Study, listen, read, go to blogs, etc. 

I can’t see at all what on earth you’re getting out of running 10 miles, running  all out for 600m, then doing another 10 miles. I can’t think of a single race or distance such a workout would contribute towards that actually benefits anything other than just working for works sake doing a workout that isn’t concentrated on anything. 

You need to be deliberate with your workouts man. You need to learn what you’re actually doing. 

 

Edited April 28, 2019 by kieranperez

[Michael569]

Look up glycine-rich foods. It is an amino acid making up around 2/3 of all joint tissue. There are plenty of plant based alternatives such as vegetable broth, cabbage juice, spinach, oats etc. You may also consider collagen supplements but they are mostly not vegan.

Other supplements that have been proven efficient for osteoarthritis and general wear & tear damage are glucosamine, chondroitin and MSM. There are some mixed products you could look into. 

An interesting thing you may try is something called "primal movement" basically this replicates movement of various animals, works on joints and connective tissue with your own weight within natural range of motion, perhaps some of that could help the recovery. 

Generally it might be helpful to get the knee scanned for the assessment for damage. A knee pain may actually be a damaged hip so getting an X-Ray or localised MRI might be good. Just to get a proper diagnosis so you have something to work on. 

 

[RendHeaven]

lol that is indeed such a random workout, to quote kieran

[Soulbass]

thanks for replies.

i've found a pack of 15 daily doses (collagen from fishes & chicken, sulfates of glucosamin & chondroitin, methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) and some other things...)

an experienced runner confirmed that the reason why i get issues, is because of running with trail shoes on concrete (+ using heel a lot).

i've also learned to do faster (smaller) paces, hoka seems to help in that sense.

i know there is a symbolic reason to this, tho.

[kieranperez]

1 minute ago, Soulbass said:

i've found a pack of 15 daily doses (collagen from fishes & chicken, sulfates of glucosamin & chondroitin, methylsulfonylmethane (MSM) and some other things...)

Dude you don’t need to get fancy. Don’t try and solve these issues through some materialistic external approach. 

2 minutes ago, Soulbass said:

an experienced runner confirmed that the reason why i get issues, is because of running with trail shoes on concrete (+ using heel a lot).

i've also learned to do faster (smaller) paces, hoka seems to help in that sense.

Dude you gotta learn how to run before learn to run fast and long.

Theres no mystery or anything symbolic here. You gotta learn to run efficiently and correct your form and mechanics and get strong. 

Yes you want to stop heel striking but there’s a lot more to it that . 

Theres nothing wrong with using a trail for the road. I’ve worked in one of the best specialty run stores in the USA. You’re not more susceptible to injury if you use a trail for the road. 

As far as shoes you gotta look at fit, drop, weight. The rest is all extra stuff. 

[Soulbass]

@kieranperez thanks for the videos on muscles training, i'll look into that when knee will be healed.

for now i can't do the exercises without feeling pain, and it would make the inflammatory worst.

i agree with you that i need to solve this practically, i think supplements is worth trying.

i'll set a training when it will be 90-100% healed

edit: the guy i've been talking to today gives me hope, he got paletta split in 2 on a jet-ski accident, and 3 surgical operations, he wasn't meant to run again. today he does marathon on 2h15.

Edited May 2, 2019 by Soulbass

[Lister]

@Soulbass

 

 

[Hellspeed]

Go egg yolk every day during 3 minths. Cured cheese left outside of the fridge.

This will beat any plant in terms of healing. Tested by me.

[Soulbass]

i wanted to give you guys @kieranperez @Nahm @Serotoninluv @Michael569 an update, since my state (knee injury) improved a lot, over the past 2 months period.

i took / did this, daily :

- Collagen (Isura).
- MSM, Glucosamine, Chondroitin (Natural Factors "Joint Formula").
- AOE "Bone Basics".
- Natural C vitamin, Acerola.
- Smoothie with flax seeds (omega-3).
- Anti inflammatory, essential oil "lemon eucalyptus" + blend oil, local application.
- Running 7-8k, once a week no more, with HOKA shoes.

i don't know which one of these points helped the most, i did all together hopping for the best.

i did my first official race lately, so i guess i'm back.

[Nahm]

@Soulbass Congrats! 

[Knock]

@Soulbass nice work, and congrats on the speedy recovery!

[kieranperez]

@Soulbass good shit man. Yeah, strength, mobility, and mechanics/form is the foundation. Don’t overthink all this ancillary stuff. Tbh its a distraction but glad you’re running again. 

Dont make this more complicated than it has to be.

• a hard workout once or twice a week. Touch all the bases: lactate threshold (tempo rubs, cruise intervals, etc.), neuromuscular/cns sprint work with plenty of recovery between reps (5 reps of 8-10 second Hill sprints w/4 min standing rest), high end vo2max workouts (10x400m @ mile effort w/90 sec rest)
• A long run every week
• Strength 3 times per week focusing on the posterior chain, stability and foundational strength
• mobility work before and after runs
• Easy runs

80% of your runs are done easy. Make your easy days EASY and your hard days hard but doable. 

Keep it up.

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

@kieranperez Kelly Starret is the man. If you haven't already read his book "Becoming a Supple Leopard" I highly recommend you do so. 

[kieranperez]

3 minutes ago, TrynaBeTurquoise said:

@kieranperez Kelly Starret is the man. If you haven't already read his book "Becoming a Supple Leopard" I highly recommend you do so. 

Yes & Kelly was my neighbor who was also my little brother's swim team's strength coach since his daughter was on the team. Been into his gym in the Presidio in SF and his other guy Nate Helming whose YouTube channel "The Run Experience" (highly recommend) is a buddy of mine back in the Bay.

I find Kelly, based on my extensive experience applying and learning his stuff down to the very guts of it, to not be holistic enough and really just aggressive in how he does mobility. I find Nate, whose one of Kelly's top coaches at his gym but now has his own gig going, applies a better balance towards mobility work that isn't as aggressive as Kelly. I found I moved way too fast in terms of forcing deep stretches and releasing stuck sliding tissues to such a degree where it actually caused more problems. However, I've learned a lot from him. The man knows his shit better than 99.999999% of strength coaches out there. At this point, if I meet strength training guys or coaches whom aren't familiar with guys like Kelly or Vern Gambetta (absolute GENIUS), I tend to be able to predict where the limitations are in their strength training and what they're missing and can see it in the way they move. Kelly is a "mainstream" example of a Yellow strength/mobility coach. 

Edited September 25, 2019 by kieranperez

[TrynaBeTurquoise]

1 hour ago, kieranperez said:

Yes & Kelly was my neighbor who was also my little brother's swim team's strength coach since his daughter was on the team. Been into his gym in the Presidio in SF and his other guy Nate Helming whose YouTube channel "The Run Experience" (highly recommend) is a buddy of mine back in the Bay.

I find Kelly, based on my extensive experience applying and learning his stuff down to the very guts of it, to not be holistic enough and really just aggressive in how he does mobility. I find Nate, whose one of Kelly's top coaches at his gym but now has his own gig going, applies a better balance towards mobility work that isn't as aggressive as Kelly. I found I moved way too fast in terms of forcing deep stretches and releasing stuck sliding tissues to such a degree where it actually caused more problems. However, I've learned a lot from him. The man knows his shit better than 99.999999% of strength coaches out there. At this point, if I meet strength training guys or coaches whom aren't familiar with guys like Kelly or Vern Gambetta (absolute GENIUS), I tend to be able to predict where the limitations are in their strength training and what they're missing and can see it in the way they move. Kelly is a "mainstream" example of a Yellow strength/mobility coach. 

I live in the Bay too. Another guy to check out that isn't mainstream and also lives in the bay is Marcus Filly, ex crossfit athlete who has his own program Functional Bodybuilding. I've probably grown the most from his approach when it comes to strength/mobility/structural balance/conditioning and apply it to my own clients.

His approach to mobility (safer than forcing deep stretches aggressively)

1. promote global bloodflow ie. run/bike ect

2. banded mobility drills/dynamic stretching

3. perform movement at end range under light load emphasizing eccentric

4. increase load