If I were to die

[Joker_Theory]

1 hour ago, Shaun said:

Please understand that I am dealing with a complete collapse of what I thought my life was. My very own mother and everyone else for that matter possibly don't even know me and can't even see me because they aren't there.

@Shaun What do you mean by this if you don't mind me asking? Sorry to ask but i am not even there yet and would like to know what you mean please.

Edited April 29, 2019 by Joker_Theory

[Shaun]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

No. You are avoiding sensations, and that is the suffering. Suffering is not happening to you, you are creating it, in each moment you continue to avoid.

After the moaning, the screaming, the squirming passes.....then what would happen?

After it passes, nothing. 

[Shaun]

18 minutes ago, Joker_Theory said:

@Shaun What do you mean by this if you don't mind me asking. Sorry to ask but i am not even there yet and would like to know what you mean please.

It means that you are god and created this entire reality to pretend that you are not. Everyone you see are just fake cardboard cutouts not having any experience at all. You could go out and kill someone  or kiss that girl you like and it wouldn't matter because they wouldn't actually experience it. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Shaun

[Joker_Theory]

3 minutes ago, Shaun said:

It means that you are god and created this entire reality to pretend that you are not. Everyone you see are just fake cardboard cutouts not having any experience at all. 

Oh i thought you meant literally they can't see you. Did you have an experience of that? My mom that's siting here by me does not look and act that way to me why i ask. 

[Joker_Theory]

as i understand it is that me and everyone in the room are more like objects inside pure awareness so not cardboard cutouts but ""dreamlike objects" but i only understand this and not experienced it. Have you experienced it, is that what you mean?

[Shaun]

7 minutes ago, Joker_Theory said:

Oh i thought you meant literally they can't see you. Did you have an experience of that? My mom that's siting here by me does not look and act that way to me why i ask. 

She is an illusion according to Leo and many others on here. You are also an illusion. I have no direct experience to back this up but it seems to be the general consensus. You are god and you are totally alone. Now you may need a shit ton of anti depressants to cope with your new understanding. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Shaun

[Joker_Theory]

1 minute ago, Shaun said:

She is an illusion according to Leo and many others on here. You are also an illusion. I have no direct experience to back this up but it seems to be the general consensus. You are god and you are totally alone. Now you may need a shit ton of anti depressants to cope with your new understanding. 

i have heard this about 9 month's ago and yes that's how i felt but i came over this. It was like i was mourning my own death and everyone i loved death as well but after that you realized the dream just continues. If i experience it maybe i will become depressed again but at the moment i have accepted it for now.

[Nahm]

32 minutes ago, Shaun said:

After it passes, nothing. 

How do you think that would feel? That nothing?

[Shaun]

7 minutes ago, Joker_Theory said:

i have heard this about 9 month's ago and yes that's how i felt but i came over this. It was like i was mourning my own death and everyone i loved death as well but after that you realized the dream just continues. If i experience it maybe i will become depressed again but at the moment i have accepted it for now.

The whole thing is like a really bad trip with no beginning or end. Rupert Spira describes it differently in that all things appear within consciousness and I remember him saying in his book that we can say that the other people in this dream are having their own experience but are not separate from consciousness. That's pretty radical and unsettling but nowhere near as bad as being absolutely alone.

[David Hammond]

On 4/28/2019 at 2:32 PM, Shaun said:

If this form that calls itself Shaun were to die in a car accident tomorrow, would everyone else's subjective experience also cease until I come back as some other form?

No it wouldn't. Your body would die, but everything will carry on without you. Your death was meant to happen. But if you know who you are on the deepest level then you know that ultimately that never dies and was never born.

[David Hammond]

On 4/28/2019 at 4:34 PM, Shaun said:

Nonduality is the truth on which most religions are based. The issue we face here is that a discussion about nonduality isn't really possible as those practising it can't agree on the colour of shit. You can only do the practice yourself and discuss it in the meantime.

If you consult a crappy teacher like Leo then yeah you will find yourself in a mess on a forum with a group of cowboys.

Have you thought about dzogchen transmission from an actual qualified master? 

[Shaun]

3 minutes ago, David Hammond said:

No it wouldn't. Your body would die, but everything will carry on without you. Your death was meant to happen. But if you know who you are on the deepest level then you know that ultimately that never dies and was never born.

Leo would disagree with you there.

[Nahm]

@Shaun And how many times would you guess this would need be done, before the fear does not ‘return’?

[Forestluv]

3 hours ago, Shaun said:

I'd just sit, scream or squirm while feeling them, that's what would happen. Still, the experience is unpleasant. It all makes sense in this inquiry were are doing and thank you for that but when the actual experience comes, it is something else entirely to actually have to put in to practice. It takes skill and experience.

I just want to reach out here. . . I can relate. I’ve experienced spaces in which I can’t make it stop. With moderate intensity, it is very unpleasant, In extreme cases it has lead to panic, terror and agony. I agree that it takes a lot of skill and experience to work out of that direct experience when it’s actually happening. Talking and contemplating it is a walk in the park compared to being it. How to live with it is something I’ve put a lot of effort into and something I’m still working on. . . Sometimes there is a background fear knowing that another episode will overpower me sometime in the future and I don’t know when it will come or how I will handle it. I’ve got to be careful about engaging with that background anxiety, because I can spiral down if I engage too much. Even writing about it now has me on edge and I’m putting in conscious effort to stay grounded.

[Shaun]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

How do you think that would feel? That nothing?

Better than suffering, hugely better.

 

28 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Shaun And how many times would you guess this would need be done, before the fear does not ‘return’?

Until enlightenment happens

 

@Serotoninluv

I totally understand, trying to understand it sometimes makes it come right up and the shit hits the fan big time. I don't think it is about making it stop, but more about surrender.

[Forestluv]

3 minutes ago, Shaun said:

 

@Serotoninluv I don't think it is about making it stop, but more about surrender.

Yes. It’s just hard to surrender when it’s happening. 

[Nahm]

 

@Shaun Yes. How many times though, would you guess you’d need to sit through sensations until you know solidly enough they’re nothing to be afraid of in the first place? And the Truth sets you free? I’m curious, you could be thinking a few and you’ll feel a ton better. Or, you could be thinking hundreds because feeling better = enlightenment?

[Shaun]

6 hours ago, Nahm said:

 

@Shaun Yes. How many times though, would you guess you’d need to sit through sensations until you know solidly enough they’re nothing to be afraid of in the first place? And the Truth sets you free? I’m curious, you could be thinking a few and you’ll feel a ton better. Or, you could be thinking hundreds because feeling better = enlightenment?

I really don't know how many times it will take. I feel like I am up against something totally infinite and I am so helpless. 

[Robi Steel]

@Shaun

Stop projecting your ego onto this consciousness. There is no form called shawn and therefore it cant die, it wasnt there in the first place. When you die, nothing will change about your true identity as God. God will be always be flowing without anyone being there, without any breaks, to infinity. There is no subjective experience of others, there is just universal experience in the universe, playing certain patterns and cycles over and over again. Just because a cycle ends doesnt mean anything substantial gets eroded, its just a pattern, a order that dissolves into possibility

[Nahm]

@Shaun Right that’s why I’m asking. It’s not like that though. Once, twice, maybe three times, and you’ll see, there was never anything to fear. It’s not the “infinite” big deal it’s made out to be. It actually turns out, you’re really awesome. I see it plain as day. I see your awesomeness.