Why didn't the 1960s counterculture movement evolve the US into Green

[Leo Gura]

@kieranperez 500+ years

[Forestluv]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

@kieranperez 500+ years

It seems an individual can evolve in consciousness much higher than the evolution of the average societal consciousness. For example, an individual can evolve into solid Turquoise, yet it may be 100+ years for society to evolve that high.

Sometimes it’s like I can almost touch something “paranormal” and I get the sense that in 100+ years it will be mainstream. There is both a sense of excitement and sadness about that. 

[mandyjw]

@Serotoninluv Eckhart Tolle calls in the "flowering of human consciousness" and compares it with the first flowers that evolved on earth. Their spread is exponential. I have the feeling that we are really close to a huge burst in exponential growth. 

No need to be sad, ultimately the universe is one being and will awaken as one. 

[kieranperez]

@Serotoninluv that’s pretty much always the case no matter what the domain. 

I’ll use a running analogy. 

When Arthur Lydiard created a totally new paradigm in middle distance running where he was training his 800m and 1500m runners at 100 miles a week, doing great deal of work training one’s aerobic capacity, and thus got results with training gold medalists like Peter Snell... everybody thought he was fucking nuts. It defied everything that was conceived as what was good training and what not. Eventually though it caught on and then got more studies and scientific analysis to understand why it was working and why it broke conventional dogma. 

As time went on though, people took what the actual process was for Lydiard to come up with that totally for granted and just adopted his programs and methods because his paradigm became the new norm in understanding. It became the new dogma. Then we got to a point innovation really started to decline because people took the works of coaching genius for granted and just followed the models and only seeing things through that lens and not what was right in front of them. Not realizing that what made those coaches breakthrough coaches is that they were so creative and worked with what they had. 

Some things catch up faster than others but in general I think fields like science tend to work a lot slower because, depending on what you think of when you say “science”, they’re role is often to explain, formalize, methodize, systematize true breakthroughs, insights, truths, etc. 

For me I both love that and hate that. I hate it (and I say that loosely) because when I come up with stuff and I get breakthrough ideas and what not, I have this mindset of like “I don’t want anything I come up with to eventually lead to some way of deluding people. I’d rather give someone a loose process with less of a rigid paradigm to look at this and work towards something.” I love it because I do love the creative process of being able to put things together.

I think this explains why you have enlightened masters like Ralston who have such a loose way of teaching. If you study his material he actually doesn’t teach too much from a set of paradigms, strict rigid processes and formal systems because his work is about largely about the Truth and being totally stripped of dogma. There’s pros and cons with that. He really stresses certain principles.

[Forestluv]

@kieranperez Wow, someone here with an appreciation for the genius of Lydiard. Beautiful.

On science. . . it seems like a pro and con. Excessive skepticism, peer-review, dogma and the staus-quo can slow science down - yet those features also keep it grounded and solid. . . If I got funded for every “great idea” I’ve had, I would have wasted a lot of time and tax-payer money ?

[kieranperez]

@Serotoninluv I don’t what you really said that triggered this but I think it leads off your prior point with innovation and then creating new paradigms but the other thing that had really bothers me that actually hurts a lot of people is this issue of fragmentation and hyper specializing on one thing.

In science you have anthropologists, biologists (and all the sub sects of that), meteorologists, chemists, physicists, etc. 

In spirituality you have yoga, shamanism, tantric Buddhism, christian mysticism, Daoism, Zen, psychedelics, thereveda buddhism, Advaita Vedanta, Jainism, etc. 

Psychology  you have CBT, DBT, Psychoanalysis, Jungian psychotherapy, Transpersonal psychology, talk-therapy, dream work, Gestalt therapy, alternative medicine, positive psychology, hypnosis, etc. 

You get the point and the problem I have that drives me up the fucking wall is these people in each of these sub groups only tend to talk in their fucking language and can’t be of any goddamn use in anything but their narrow little sect. I’ve talked about this with spiritual teachers and why i find Integral spirituality from Wilber so refreshing because Integral spiritual teachers have enough competence to actually help you if it’s more of a psychological barrier one is having in their own progress and won’t just shirk you away to have you go to a psychologist and have you waste more time, money, and energy doing “practices” with a psychotherapist that doesn’t even grasp the mind that deeply. 

Although I love seeing new creative breakthroughs, they’re still often too mayopic. Which is why I think “2nd tier breakthroughs” are so much more necessary this day in age because more Integral people can come up with and create more holistic solutions and creative breakthroughs. 

You see this in coaching in running too all the time. With athletes who are struggling psychologically and the coach of course has no idea what’s going on or what to do so now they need to send him to a sport psychologist or something or bring on sport psychologist (whose still probably deluded and seeing the issue from only his sport psychology lens). Or when youre a distance coach but you only know and study distance running and you know nothing about how applicable it is to studying throwers and sprinters and include that. Instead of learning that they just work in their bubble and useless when it comes to anything other than that. 

Virtually none of these people are integrally informed about anything other than their niche because, hey, it’s out of their job description and their little bubble. That’s why I find this to be such a shame.

Tying this together... this really highlights the effects of creative breakthroughs down the road. They form collective sub sects and niches that aren’t integral enough to cooperate with other domains and people follow that unwittingly and only think in that little world. Which is why for example I find Ralston’s Zen Body Being Book to be the best book a coach can read. I’ve read and studied pretty much everything in the world of running of coaches in history going back to the 20s to know, studying athletes, messaging world class coaches, reading through the history, learning and seeing for myself, etc. and man that book is beyond and free all that.

It’s also why I find Wilber’s work and impact very refreshing. For so many years I thought I was the only one feeling like I was tearing my hair out from how mayopic all of these perspectives are. At the same time though, as much as he ties it all together, it’s hard to really get practical, simple, grounded solutions from his work and Integral Life. 

[Forestluv]

@kieranperez I agree. I’d love to increase integration. Yet people like to stay within their paradigm and comfort zones. If I talk mysticism to my science colleagues I get marginalized.  And when I was in Sedona and talked science to mystics, I was marginalized.

What’s a guy who wants to start Reiki Neuroscience to do?

[kieranperez]

@Serotoninluv it’s honestly one of the things that discourages me the most when it comes to Life Purpose and impact and also the business of it all. 

[Forestluv]

@kieranperez There is also plenty of opportunity to be a pioneer. I think there is decent interest, yet it is scattered around. Stuff like psychedelics, therapy, psychology, mysticism and neuroscience is practically begging to get integrated.

I think the career scientists will be the hardest to get to cross over. They will resist giving up control of the narrative and power within medicine, health care and health insurance coverage. 

[herghly]

On 28/04/2019 at 4:12 PM, Leo Gura said:

Well obviously. That's not even the future, that's already today.

Life in the real future will be so different it will be impossible to understand it for today's humans. There will be things far beyond humans or even living creatures. Stuff in totally new dimensions as yet unimaginable.

I forsee a future where beings can materialize physical objects using their will and imagination through no physical mechanism. Imagine building a jumbo jet using your mind and it appears before you. With enough intelligence that should be possible. That is how God does it.

This is beyond even what the yoga sutras say about siddhis.

 

Do you think people get to this point through meditation?

While on this topic you said in your concentration video that you need serious concentration to develop PSI. Since you've now been meditating seriously for awhile have you had any strange psychic events?

[Esoteric]

On 4/28/2019 at 10:12 AM, Leo Gura said:

Well obviously. That's not even the future, that's already today.

Life in the real future will be so different it will be impossible to understand it for today's humans. There will be things far beyond humans or even living creatures. Stuff in totally new dimensions as yet unimaginable.

I forsee a future where beings can materialize physical objects using their will and imagination through no physical mechanism. Imagine building a jumbo jet using your mind and it appears before you. With enough intelligence that should be possible. That is how God does it.

@Leo Gura So this is gonna be a lot of theorizing and speculating.. I remember reading Bhakti Yoga by Swami Vivekekananda. He makes an argument that when you self-realize you do become aware that you are God but it does not grant you the power of creation, that is still kept from you. Which makes sense to me.

So it seems to me that Jesus, the Buddha and Babaji are not your typical non-dual types. And allegedly they could/can materialize things into existence. In Yogananda's biography he tells about Yukteswar coming back to see him from the causal plane. He (Yukteswar) then tells a story that Jesus was done completely with his debt to nature and perhaps he was and therefore even could materialize stuff. Same goes for Babaji. Of course there is no validity in this. Other than trust in their words. And his biography seems fantastical, but the more I venture into this work, the more plausible it seems.

So it could be that RARE beings can do this already. 

[kieranperez]

@Esoteric you have to separate “full” enlightenment/god-consciousness (if there is such a thing) from having crazy paranormal psychic abilities. As far as I’m concerned, I don’t see why there couldn’t have yogis who’ve levitated and so forth in the past. However I wouldn’t equate that with full enlightenment by any stretch. Remember, even in the Yoga Sutras Patanjali even talks about how siddhis have nothing to do with liberation itself. They are accomplishment yes but not liberation. 

But I do of course certainly agree that not all enlightened people are equally “accomplished” as far as depth of understanding and constant consciousness of the truth and totally free nor equally energetically/psychic developed and mastered. As far as I’m concerned though, that requires decades of hardcore as fuck penance and training if you’re talking about psychic and development because then you gotta throw in the development of concentration so powerful you gotta move a fucking mountain and all the purification that would take to get their on your body and of course your brain and being able to train that every day at the exclusion of other things like life purpose and so forth. 

You also gotta see that everything YOU create in everyday life is you creating. I remember I realized on my last acid trip how deep creation/creativity is. It’s fucking bone shaking because you look at the world and everything you do in ever second of every moment and you realize that you’re literally a vehicle of God creating and simulataneously witnessing the creation as it happen. I intuit I only got a taste of it and I was blown away and realized “man... I gotta be a vehicle for God’s creativity”.