What's the difference between complete mockery and spiritual teachings?

[mandyjw]

I hit a brick wall of ego backlash or depression or something like that. I had just started a mediation practice, I'm getting over the flu and I have young kids. It become very obvious to me quickly that too much focus on my "spiritual journey" means neglecting my kids. I was reading about the five hindrances and it made sense to me intellectually, but I didn't care. 

Buddha ABANDONED his wife and child to go off on a spiritual journey. Who am I to think that I can go about a traditional path of meditation and dedication? I can't. I can't abandon my kids. I can sit in meditation and stay still for 30 minutes but it's much easier to meditate than it is to listen to a 3 year old scream and be patient with her for God knows how long. Self care is knowing that some days I just cannot expect myself to do both.  

I decided to do a 180 and totally waste my time today and I watched clips of Borat on youtube when I take breaks from cleaning. A Jewish man trolling and pretending to hate Jews and be from a country he's misrepresenting and making a total racist mockery of in all possible ways, making sexist and horrific comments to everyone at the least appropriate times. He's provoking reactions that show how closed-minded people are in their idealism. Once in a while there will be this amazing person he encounters who takes it all in stride, lovingly corrects him and treats him with respect and love. Those are my favorite ones. 

It dawned on me that maybe this wasn't actually a waste of my time. What's the difference between complete mockery and spiritual teachings? Aren't we trying to tear down beloved and cherished beliefs in this work? Is there a danger is taking yourself too seriously? Is there a danger in not taking yourself seriously enough? I don't know anymore. 

[outlandish]

Luckily everyone has a different path in life, there's not one correct way to do life. Gautama Buddha, Sacha Baron Cohen, you, me, we all have completely different paths in life, different potentials, passions and so on and that's a good thing. In my opinion there's not a distinction between spiritual and non-spiritual, although that is a fine shorthand to use. When Sacha Baron Cohen follows his highest comedic calling, that's exactly his dharma.

Yes I think there's danger in taking yourself too seriously, but I think the inverse danger is in underestimating yourself.

[mandyjw]

@outlandish Thank you. 

[Forestluv]

29 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

Aren't we trying to tear down beloved and cherished beliefs in this work?

Construction and deconstruction.

Deconstruction and construction.

I try not to get too attached to either. 

[mandyjw]

@Serotoninluv I say this with respect because I really do appreciate all the work that Leo and all the mods here do here, including you. I value this place and I'm really thankful for the privilege to be here, and I understand that some discussions just have to be cut off for the greater good of the forum.   So please forgive me because I have to say it. 

You locked a thread yesterday for this reason. 

"A bizarre distortion and immature mockery of Sadhguru's teaching on Hinduism."

Are you sure you're not ok with people having fun deconstructing? There truly was more there than what meets the eye. 

Edited April 25, 2019 by mandyjw

[Vinnie]

@mandyjw If you're stressing over fucking Borat... Are you in a supportive household? Is everyone aware of your aspirations? You just came off a flu, so try to be easy on yourself. Cut out all the unnecessary bull in your life. You don't need to be stressing about stupid shit like Borat. 

We're here for you.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Vinnie

[Forestluv]

@mandyjw It involves intention and impact at the collective level. In my view you are looking at one relative perspective. I see and understand that relative perspective. Yet consider the collective perspectives. What about the relative perspectives of Hindu members on the board PMing me about that thread?

Now I am getting criticism from a couple members that I went too far toward another perspective. In hindsight, could I have re-phrased my statement to be more sensitive to the perspective that you offer? Yes. It is a difficult balance at times and I am still learning how to thread these needles. It's hard to do it gracefully sometimes.

[mandyjw]

4 minutes ago, Vinnie said:

@mandyjw If you're stressing over fucking Borat... Are you in a supportive household? Is everyone aware of your aspirations? You just came off a flu, so try to be easy on yourself.

My kids are too little to know. The three year old is an enlightened she devil/angel though. My husband thinks he's being supportive when really yesterday every time I tried to rest and rest my voice because my throat was sore, he used the opportunity to ruin it by ranting at me the whole time about how dangerous psychedelics are and even though I told him I have no plans to try them for now he thinks I shouldn't be around people who do them. He also ranted about how I'm too obscure about my wording of things and misleading people. He's trying to get it but he's not there yet. 

@Serotoninluv You know better than me as I have no faced the challenges of moderating a forum. I wouldn't have been caught dead here at all when I still highly identified myself as a Christian and nothing else in addition to that. So it surprises me that that is a concern here, but again I realize that moderators have to anticipate problems before they actually occur and that makes sense. 

[Vinnie]

@mandyjw You need to sit down with your husband. Clarity is vital. He needs to support you or things won't get better. You don't have to abandon your spiritual journey but you both need to be working together. If he's a Fundamentalist, you might need to drop psychedelics. Or him lols. Dogma's a b!tch.

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by Vinnie

[Forestluv]

@mandyjw It's not just about religion. It is all things humans hold dearly. What if there was a thread mocking those who are suicidal, children that have been abused or a forum member with cerebral palsy? There are some contexts that are unhealthy at the community level. Yet as you indicate, one can go too far to the opposite side of the spectrum and get too controlling and serious. It isn't always cut and dry. Sometimes there are grey areas.

What happened, was that I saw the relative truth within a counter-perspective and I went a bit too far toward that perceptive. That upset a couple users with the other relative perspective (that also has relative value). 

I'm learning, growing and evolving too. If this dynamic appears again, I would handle it slightly differently and hopefully things would flow a bit smoother. For this reason, I appreciate and thank you for this feedback. I have updated my rationale within the thread. It may be a too late, yet it's the best I can do at this point.

[mandyjw]

@Serotoninluv Thank you.  I have limited experience as an admin for a Facebook group but I know how tricky it can be sometimes. 

[mandyjw]

@Vinnie Thank you. He's really trying to support me but I realize that it's impossible for him to do unless he also understands or really WANTS to understand nonduality. 

Luckily I'm insane enough to have weird experiences on my own without psychedelics, ironically he's the one who could probably use them at some point though. I'm less identified with thinking and logic by nature, he is very much so. 

[Leo Gura]

@mandyjw This is why most people will not get enlightened. It's too radical and it requires serious focus.

You will not wake up without scheduling some week-long retreats every year. Waking up requires intense and prolonged focus. 60 minutes of focus will not do it.

Or try psychedelics. That's the most realistic way for ordinary people to get a taste of awakening. It's fast amd effective, unlike meditation.

With all that said, you can still maintain a daily meditation habit.

[DrewNows]

@mandyjwYou will always be the difference. You have and will always be on a “spiritual” journey and it’s always going to be bigger than you can think or imagine. 

The biggest mistake is thinking you aren’t where youre supposed to be now. 

I suggest using some sort of hobby or even chores as a form of meditation, something to get lost in the enjoyment of simply doing/being instead of looking at these activities as a means to accomplish something in particular 

BUT use every waking/sleeping moment to meditate, use observation to be aware of everything that makes the self, fear being one of the biggest ones. 

It’s crazy how much my personality/belief system started shifting through spirituality.

I’ve had to become more aware of all the new “shoulds” in my life. And I’ve been making peace with my old self by welcoming it back into my life with open arms and integrating it into a fully abundant unattached self 

(I’m sure this was written just as much for me as you ?)

 

Edited April 25, 2019 by DrewNows

[Surfingthewave]

@mandyjw I hear you, andI hear the frustration in your words. I've been where you are and keep returning to that place but the more you do the work the more aware you become of this process and can start to see it for what it really is. 

It sounds more like your ego kicking back. Allow it to kick back, relish in it and bathe in it. In terms of your kids, they are the best example of moment by moment living and experiencing life as it is. 

Keep doing what you're doing as as Leo and others say, intensify, intensify intensify. The hardest thing about this path is staying on it.

[mandyjw]

@Leo Gura I'm hopeful that won't be long until I'll be able to finally dedicate large chunks of time to it. My oldest has autism and is just now getting more independent. I came here a little over a month ago and had incredibly fast growth, someone here helped me to have an awakening, I was able to open my third eye and started seeing signs. There was lots of erratic behavior following it, sorry for that.  During the entire thing I had to get my kids ready for school and pick them up and go to appointments. I felt like someone would suspect me of drug use even though I hadn't taken anything and the whole thing was crazy and terrifying. I wouldn't suggest doing it that way for anyone. 

@DrewNows That's exactly why I was SO obsessed with Eckhart Tolle. He made me truly believe I could do it no matter where I was or what I had to do. 

@Surfingthewave Great advice, thank you.  I've always been bad at giving up at things, I have to pretend that i have every now and then though. 

Edited April 25, 2019 by mandyjw

[Key Elements]

Here's a thought/suggestion.

Go to the stage turquoise thread. Have a look at those spiritual teachers that Leo and others listed. Pick at least two or three different ones and do research on them. What are they teaching? What's the main idea? For me, I can't stick with just one. I don't want the wrong message.

[Leo Gura]

@mandyjw If you have young kids who demand a lot of your time you may just have to focus on them for a few years until they are more independent and then return to serious spiritual pursuits.

In the meantime you can study theory and maintain a mild daily practice of 30-60 minutes. You can also do a few yearly meditation retreats or psychedelic retreats.

Sometimes in this work you must inch your way up. Be creative. Find ways which fit your existing obligations.

But also, don't fool yourself into thinking that watching Borat is spiritual work. You must be brutally honest about whether the techniques you're using are actually raising your consciousness.

[Forestluv]

@mandyjw Just an idea. . . It might be helpful to find a couple deeply conscious mothers that have had a similar life situation as you. Perhaps they might have some insight on how to tread that path. 

[mandyjw]

@Serotoninluv I live in a very rural, quite disconnected area so getting together with people in person is a huge challenge but the good news is that my entire life has been like a retreat.  The energy of this place has had quite an effect on me and I didn't realize the full impact until recently. I'm also really luck that my sister is highly conscious and also a mom, she does yoga teacher training and teaches tai chi. I told her what happened to me and she said that awakening was unique, and was still possible for busy moms and to prioritize self care. 

@Leo Gura Thanks. I only started this journey consciously after I became a mom, something about the challenges of it made me realize how broken I really was.  I won't watch Borat for the purpose of spiritual development, I was just trying to cheer myself up. I guess it was on my mind because of the discussion here about Stefan Molyneux's race and IQ video and it just got me thinking about how people can go about discussing such incredibly volatile subjects without getting offended. 

@Key Elements Will do, thank you.