Sadhguru, Building Spiritual Infrastructure in the World

[mandyjw]

 

So I found this video fascinating, it mentions and puts together a lot of things that I've been thinking about for a few years.

I really enjoy a lot of Yuval Harari's ideas about how jobs are going to become obsolete for the most part and the dangers of having an "elite" in such a world. Sadhguru seems to have the answers here. But Yuval Harari is actually really into Vipassana meditation. A quote from him, 

"My main ambition as a historian is to be able to tell the difference between what's really happening in the world and what are the fictions that humans have been creating for thousands of years in order to explain or in order to control what's happening in the world."

Yet he tells stories. or he makes us aware of the stories. He doesn't prescribe meditation or consciousness work as a solution to all these terrifying world problems that he talks about. Why not? I would think that having discovered Vipassana meditation and having a vision for the world that the connection between the two, the connection Sadhguru makes in this short video, would be the main focus of Yuval Harari's work. Instead he's interested in starting a discussion. Bill Gates and many important people read and love his work. The power and opportunity he has for change is huge. Does he not truly understand the connection? Or is he just not saying what it is? Yet?

Is it more powerful to raise a question, than to provide the answer or a solution? 

It seems like misleading people to not offer a solution when you already know what it is, but at the same time every time you offer an opinion or position, people turn into devil's advocates and come out to oppose you. So is the more loving thing just to present someone with a problem and let them go solve it on their own? 

[Salvijus]

3.59min. "your ego will shrivel up quicker then a coconat tree on a mountain" Damn it I need to get there

Yeah.. future will be nice. The only meaningful job will be left is raising consciousness: like therapists, vippassana instructors, Yoga instructors, etc. That's what I'm aiming for definitely, building spiritual physical and human infrastructure

1 hour ago, mandyjw said:

 

 Is it more powerful to raise a question, than to provide the answer or a solution? 

Hard to comment on this. I don't know much about Yuval Harari and his work.

Edited April 23, 2019 by Salvijus

[mandyjw]

@Salvijus Yeah, it's a lot to dig into. I know his basic ideas from lectures and interviews, I haven't read his books. He tries to bridge a gap between science, history, intellect, technology and...  that's where it gets frustrating. He gets so close but doesn't bridge the gap. 

He talks about human beings acquiring powers than transform them into Gods. "Human beings are in the process of acquiring divine abilities, through scientific research and technological development..." 

 

Edited April 23, 2019 by mandyjw

[noselfnofun]

3 hours ago, mandyjw said:

 

Yet he tells stories. or he makes us aware of the stories. He doesn't prescribe meditation or consciousness work as a solution to all these terrifying world problems that he talks about. Why not? I would think that having discovered Vipassana meditation and having a vision for the world that the connection between the two, the connection Sadhguru makes in this short video, would be the main focus of Yuval Harari's work. Instead he's interested in starting a discussion. Bill Gates and many important people read and love his work. The power and opportunity he has for change is huge. Does he not truly understand the connection? Or is he just not saying what it is? Yet?

Is it more powerful to raise a question, than to provide the answer or a solution? 

It seems like misleading people to not offer a solution when you already know what it is, but at the same time every time you offer an opinion or position, people turn into devil's advocates and come out to oppose you. So is the more loving thing just to present someone with a problem and let them go solve it on their own? 

Yes it is interesting I just read an interview where he said "I worried that people would think I’m saying that meditation will solve all the problems I raise. It can help people cope with stress but it’s definitely not the silver bullet that will save humankind from all its problems" found here https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2018/aug/05/yuval-noah-harari-free-information-extremely-dangerous-interview-21-lessons he goes on quite long retreats yearly like 30 days plus. Maybe he just dose not think meditation and spirituality is the answer or he dose but is keeping quite because he dose not feel qualified. people like him are really good at seeing what the problem is and maybe people like Sadguru are really good at solving them. 

You would think that having spent such long periods in silent retreat he would of experienced profound levels of peace and well being which of course would be one slice of the pizza in solving the mess humans have found themselves in. Or maybe he just hasn't. His ideas are definitely interesting and are getting people thinking so good on him there 

[Leo Gura]

12 hours ago, mandyjw said:

"My main ambition as a historian is to be able to tell the difference between what's really happening in the world and what are the fictions that humans have been creating for thousands of years in order to explain or in order to control what's happening in the world."

Hehehe...

That's a very tall order. That will require massive personal awakening.

The problem is, all of history is a fiction. So he's gonna have a real hard time doing that within the context of history.

The only way to achieve his goal is to become a mystic.

[mandyjw]

@Leo Gura I'm just shocked that he doesn't know or say more about it when he does such intense Vipassana meditations. I guess that if you meditate with the goal of becoming a smarter person, you'll become a smarter person. If you meditate with the goal of forgetting everything you know, you'll forget everything you know. 

I'm very suspicious of people. People sometimes play roles to act like they know less than they do in order to serve a greater purpose. I can't tell if he's just stuck in his head or if he is playing an important part. Maybe both.  

[Leo Gura]

47 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

 I'm just shocked that he doesn't know or say more about it when he does such intense Vipassana meditations.

I'm not really familiar with what he does.

But it's very easy to do years of Vipassana but not be awakened or really understand the depth of consciousness work. In fact I would say that most Westerners who practice Vipassana have no idea what awakening or nonduality really are. Because they are following a very narrow practice on blind faith.

I have met people who have done Vipassana for 5-15 years but have no idea what the world enlightenment means. Not to mention many other aspects of spiritual work.

This work goes so deep and has so many layers to it that you should NEVER assume that a person who does any kind of practice is awake or understands spirituality. It's all too easy to turn spiritual practices into narrow robotic habits and dogmas.

Sam Harris supposedly also does meditation and has even had some degree of realization of no-self. But his worldview is still thoroughly materialistic and dualistic, and he is still missing 98% of spirituality. This is extremely common in the West especially. Westerners tend to dabble in spirituality while thinking to themselves that they've figured it all out. This is to be expected.

As a general rule of thumb:

When someone talks about spirituality, does spirituality, or teaches spirituality -- NEVER, EVER assume that they are at the highest stages of it. Always be skeptical. Especially with Westerners. True masters are very rare. Fully comprehensive teachings are very rare.

Most people who do spirituality are doing it very poorly, pathologically, and half-assing it. This is to be expected given that almost no one understands the full scope of the mind's self-deceptiveness.

Even awakening will NOT make you immune to self-deception. So watch out!

[mandyjw]

@Leo Gura That's an important reminder, it's one of the reason I chose this avatar but it's still easy to forget. 

The trap I fall into  a lot is comparing my path with other people's path. There are some areas that I find people are incredibly advanced in and I get taken away with them. Then later I realize that they are missing some basic thing that I knew as a 5 year old or really early on. Or I do the reverse of it and dismiss someone who could really help me grow and I them. It's incredible to me how lopsided people can be and still be awakened to some degree. I guess that can be called the grace of God. Perfection in imperfection. 

Edited April 23, 2019 by mandyjw

[Empty]

@Leo Gura You are not humble at all, my friend! 

 

[Leo Gura]

48 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@Leo Gura It's incredible to me how lopsided people can be and still be awakened to some degree. I guess that can be called the grace of God. Perfection in imperfection. 

It's because very few people understand the breadth of this work. It's not only deep, it's broad. Psychological and sociological aspects of it cannot be ignored the way that many narrow nondual teachings assume.

An integral approach is not done by almost any teacher or school. Thus horrendous gaps result.

A lot of spiritual folks are in denial about the work's breadth. They want it to be as simple as someone like Eckhart Tolle or Rupert Spira makes it seem. But it just isn't.

43 minutes ago, Empty said:

@Leo Gura You are not humble at all, my friend!

I am what I am.

My function is to teach people here.

[mandyjw]

@Leo Gura Should we just whore ourselves out indiscriminately to all religions and spiritual teachers without settling down with any of them then? I'm definitely starting to develop a wandering eye. 

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@Leo Gura Should we just whore ourselves out indiscriminately to all religions and spiritual teachers without settling down with any of them then? I'm definitely starting to develop a wandering eye. 

There are some dangers to that approach as well. There are dangers everywhere.

But overall I am highly in favor of studying 100s of sources or you will become deluded. Then again, you will probably also become deluded if you study 100s of sources.

It's hard to avoid delusion.

Personally I study at least 100 sources and I know I would have been screwed by now if I hadn't.

[mandyjw]

@Leo Gura Dangers along the lines of getting into something "dark" or dangers with not being focused enough to go deep? Or both? 

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, mandyjw said:

@Leo Gura Dangers along the lines of getting into something "dark" or dangers with not being focused enough to go deep? Or both? 

Mostly dangers of being too unfocused or too conceptual.

Theory and practice must be delicately balanced. Few people know how to strike this balance. They mostly veer off too much in one direction or the other.

If you like my work, being too conceptual will be one of your biggest obstacles. If you don't like my work, studying too little theory will be one of your greatest obstacles.

[mandyjw]

@Leo Gura I've been following you for over four years now. I've gone back and forth between really loving your content and not being able to relate much. Eckhart Tolle was my favorite, the one I got stuck on. I wasn't open-minded enough for him but your videos changed that quickly. It wasn't that he said very much, but I loved how he made me feel. I felt like I was programming my brain by listening to him. 

Now I feel like I haven't gone deep enough with real meditation or studied enough theory at the same time. I've just been wavering around somewhere in the middle, lots of self inquiry causally throughout the day, and I always had a real connection with nature that I naturally deepened to become quite intense. Then things in my life just started randomly happening without me seeking them out and they grew me and broke me in ways I didn't expect. 

So buckling down and making a commitment to a real practice is something I've never really done up until this point. I've always basically just done what I feel like doing. 

[White Monk]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

If you like my work, being too conceptual will be one of your biggest obstacles. If you don't like my work, studying too little theory will be one of your greatest obstacles.

Truth be told. I needed to hear that because it's very, very true in my case. My understanding/foundation is much too fragile.