Non-Duality and Veganism

[mandyjw]

OH. MY. GOD. 

MIKAEL, YOU'RE A GENIUS.

I love my dog, I don't want to eat him, I love cows, I eat cows. I love my Easter Lily, if I eat it it will poison me, I love green beans, I eat green beans. 

You can love everything, but still be selective. You still have to choose and know what's right for you. But no one elses choices are anything less than perfect, even if they are different from yours. But you can still CHOOSE THE THINGS YOU WANT in life! It's all ok! 

9 minutes ago, Pouya said:

@mandyjw I hope she's ok 

Btw easter lily flowers are Hermophrodite (male and female at the same time.)

 

OF COURSE! Just like our true selves. Neither male nor female. 

[mandyjw]

@Mikael89 You devil, you tricked me again. I come in here thinking I'm going to enlighten you and teach you the ways things are and instead you teach me. DAMN IT. I love you. 

This place is brilliant, it really is. 

[Lister]

Would anybody like to comment on the environmental impact of an omnivore diet? There is overwhelming evidence in support of the assertion that animal agriculture the way it is currently structured is completely unsustainable. Therefore I would consider going more plant based our only option as a species growing into structures developed enough to take full responsibility for our environment. Orange couldn't do it, "business as usual" is now endangering the planet.

[Farnaby]

4 hours ago, mandyjw said:

@now is forever Veganism is a diet, not a religion. Everything changes consciousness. 

No, it's not. It's a way of living without using anything of animal origin (food, clothes, etc.)

@purerogue You clearly misunderstood me. I was just answering based on my experience to @Nahm. And I haven't experienced any difference in terms of energy and clarity since I'm a vegetarian. 

A vegan diet is not unhealthier than a "normal" diet, unless you have an unbalanced diet. This doesn't mean some people don't develop problems, but that happens with every other diet too. 

I'm against any kind of dogmatism, because those of you who say we kill animals on an everyday basis without even noticing are completely right. However, the fact that having 0 impact on other beings lives is impossible, doesn't seem incompatible with our ability to make decisions that don't contribute to further damage and suffering. That's where I see the incoherence in defending spiritual values like "everything is connected", "our ego is an illusion", "we are the universe", unconditional love, etc., and not avoiding unnecessary actions that lead to suffering. 

Of course no one is perfect and we all do things that hurt others, but just plainly accepting that and continue doing it seems very egoic to me. It's like saying: "Oh well, let's just accept people who go around raping or torturing other people. It's just the way it is and we have to love them unconditionally and not do anything to avoid it". 

[Farnaby]

1 hour ago, Lister said:

Would anybody like to comment on the environmental impact of an omnivore diet? There is overwhelming evidence in support of the assertion that animal agriculture the way it is currently structured is completely unsustainable. Therefore I would consider going more plant based our only option as a species growing into structures developed enough to take full responsibility for our environment. Orange couldn't do it, "business as usual" is now endangering the planet.

This too. If we are the universe and we know that animal agriculture has one of the biggest environmental impacts, why not stop contributing to that?

[now is forever]

1 hour ago, Lister said:

Would anybody like to comment on the environmental impact of an omnivore diet? There is overwhelming evidence in support of the assertion that animal agriculture the way it is currently structured is completely unsustainable. Therefore I would consider going more plant based our only option as a species growing into structures developed enough to take full responsibility for our environment. Orange couldn't do it, "business as usual" is now endangering the planet.

in the end it’s our own decision what we put inside of us - and being completely aware of what we are eating is part of being aware in general. it’s possible to be mindful with food. it’s possible to cut down on meat, for non vegetarians it’s possible to eat meat less and less it’s also possible to then buy high quality organic meat what is not full with antibiotics and full of stress hormons at least that’s possible. if anyone likes to eat insects go for it - maybe leaving the car at home going by bike cuts the karma points  you just need to open your mouth for a snack.

the only way i see is helping farmers making the change. the problem maybe is that the most small farms are already vanishing and the bigger farms are super industrialized meat plants. also dumping prices for meat is so disrespectful, i think there should be a limit on how much the life of a cow is worth.

Edited April 22, 2019 by now is forever

[Truth Addict]

4 hours ago, mandyjw said:

I forgot to water my Easter lily. She's totally pissed at me. Be right back. 

[SgtPepper]

Okay and now all you do is kill plants... Plants are living beings too.

From a non-duality standpoint, there is no killing or living, and everything is you, so eating plants or meat is eating yourself.

From a compassionate standpoint, it's not compassionate to feed oneself an inadequate diet which is what a vegan diet essentially is. That's why it requires supplementation. Also you think corn and soybean harvesting are cruelty free? cause it's not, it kills insects, birds, mice, and other animals like raccoons, possums. 

 

 

[Truth Addict]

@Farnaby

You're expecting a nondual answer for an ideology?

Throw Veganism away, or forget about non-duality.

Of course, you can do both, but be careful not to blend them together.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Hellspeed]

Raw animal products have the highest vibrational value in my experience. In my experience veganism will keep you dormant. 80% of vegetables have to many anti nutrients to consider de benefits. Not killing is s belief system, as humans we are the apex predator. And by experience of vegetarianism almost a decade, nothing comes close to cure meat tha has bacteria or good cheese, etc. 

People are so dumb that they embraced no violence for the sake of some social conventions. I refer to killing animals for food, not violance against people.

In my experience i'm more empathic after raw animal products and a feel of gratitude for the sacrificed animals.

[Lister]

26 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

Okay and now all you do is kill plants... Plants are living beings too.

From a non-duality standpoint, there is no killing or living, and everything is you, so eating plants or meat is eating yourself.

From a compassionate standpoint, it's not compassionate to feed oneself an inadequate diet which is what a vegan diet essentially is. That's why it requires supplementation. Also you think corn and soybean harvesting are cruelty free? cause it's not, it kills insects, birds, mice, and other animals like raccoons, possums. 

 

 

Watch this video. It's a bit long, but I think it will change your mind as to what is considered healthy. There is a lot of false information around in the media, maybe a portion of that false information is propaganda or just bad science. Who really knows? But supplementation is not an issue, the only thing that needs to be supplemented is b12, and that because we more than likely had enough of it drinking from streams and living in amongst animals in less than hygienic conditions who would share their endogenously synthesized b12 with us. 

 

 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Lister

[Scholar]

Look at the world more closely and you will realize it is Divine Will for the slaughter of animals to be inevitably ended. I do not think most people here comprehend the radical compassion future generations will have for all life on this planet. We will all look like barbarians to them, and yet they will still have compassion for us, as they know that we knew no other way.

In the future there will be no veganism as it will be part of the consciousness of our civilization. It will require no identification to act in accordance with the greater harmony of reality.

[Lister]

37 minutes ago, SgtPepper said:

Also you think corn and soybean harvesting are cruelty free? cause it's not, it kills insects, birds, mice, and other animals like raccoons, possums. 

I also believe this argument is a fallacy. Most rodents and wildlife run out of the way of combine harvesters. They all have ears and all want to survive, and a combine harvester can be heard from a long way off. Plus, how many rodents do you see chopped up in your oats in the morning? It would be impossible to seperate grains from the remains of animals crushed by combine harvester blades during a harvest of a crop.

The monocrops you mention to do feed most of the livestock we feed anyway. So there is that to consider.

These arguments are used by carnist groups to attack plant based diets, but hardly any thought is needed to debunk them.

 

[Lister]

40 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

@Farnaby

You're expecting a nondual answer for an ideology?

Throw Veganism away, or forget about non-duality.

Of course, you can do both, but be careful not to blend them together.

Just because something is not wrong, doenst mean it should be acted upon. Do you think we could get away with murder after enlightenment?

Non duality as far as I can see is the end of demonizing certain aspects of creation. That doesn't mean we conflate that with acting it out. 

[ThomasT]

9 hours ago, Space said:

Unconditional love includes the necessary killing of animals. Otherwise it would not be unconditional. 

Also includes the un-necessary Killing of animals.

[Brenzo2]

11 hours ago, Mikael89 said:

What kind of life forms do I kill? Bacteria and stuff like that? Yes, but that doesn't matter since they don't feel anything.

How do you know bacteria don't feel anything? And to constrast, how do you know animals feel anything? Is it still wrong to kill if they feel nothing? What constitutes as 'feeling'? 

[Truth Addict]

40 minutes ago, Lister said:

Just because something is not wrong, doenst mean it should be acted upon. Do you think we could get away with murder after enlightenment?

Non duality as far as I can see is the end of demonizing certain aspects of creation. That doesn't mean we conflate that with acting it out. 

It does not matter.

What matters is the greater good. If everyone turned vegan, that would probably make a biological shift in nature, animals would increase, plants would decrease, oxygen and carbon dioxide changes, global warming, etc...

The greater good includes everything, but first and foremost, human beings (from our perspective).

So, everything is fine unless it's taken to its extremes.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Scholar]

2 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

It does not matter.

What matters is the greater good. If everyone turned vegan, that would probably make a biological shift in nature, animals would increase, plants would decrease, etc...

The greater good includes everything, but first and foremost, human beings.

So, everything is fine unless it's taken to its extremes.

For a truth addict you do not really seem to be very interested in the truth. 

[mandyjw]

@Scholar Anyone that is too interested in one particular truth misses the greater picture. 

[Truth Addict]

28 minutes ago, Scholar said:

For a truth addict you do not really seem to be very interested in the truth. 

Lol! It's not an interest, it's an addiction. 

Truth doesn't mind anything. Eat whatever you like.