One last shot

[Shaun]

12 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

@Nahm  I see what you're saying but I don't think the analogy you used is in anyway comparable to what is going off here. Sure, i've played in bands since I was 14. I could explain what it is like to play live to someone who never has. And it wouldn't be the same as them experiencing it. But the fundamentals are still there. You stand on a stage and you play in front of people. And nonduality, existence and everything, is on a different scale, surely? Oh by the way, you don't exist! There is no Paul! Nor do your friends or family! We are all the same thing just playing itself out. But until you've experienced it, you wont understand that we are all the same thing and you don't exist! Everyone here, and others who have had experiences, all say that we don't exist and reality is an illusion. But you don't need to go with that evidence... even though logically, you can see how it might be true. But hey, you are still you! But you aren't! Wtf... Come on man, you must appreciate how bonkers this sounds.

@Jkris Yeh, I guess I am taking him at his word. Because many other experiences seem to correlate with what he is saying. And you can't escape that life might not be all it seems. And well, frankly, if it isn't, then I have no desire to be here, whatever I am. I don't know what comes next, but I suspect not a lot, weirdly.

Anyone can have my money, all tht I have. I don't care about material possessions. I care about being Paul, and others being them. But who are they?!? Who are my loved ones? They don't exist! I don't want to play this game anymore I really don't. I'll die before I ever get put in a crazy house. I'm not sharing their number with anyone. I spoke to my dad and told him him where I was at. He told me basically what some people say here. He told me to read Tolle. Which put me in the position I am in now. This whole thing is nihilism. It really is. It makes everything utterly pointless.

@Mikael89 My friend, appreciate the input, but I'd rather be dead than be put in one of those places. Sorry, just how it is. My life is never going to be how it was before, and I can't stand that. I'm just surviving at the moment, and I don't know how. I was cutting myself again last night, just hoping that I'll get it right and there's no turning back. I'm so sick of this joke of an existence.

I still don't understand how those of you who say you have had experiences of nonduality can all just carry on referring to others as others. Why pursue a girl? If she is you? Why pursue sex? If you are making love to yourself... or a bunch of random particles. Makes zero sesne. Life, in this form, is a joke.

I don't know what comes next, which makes killing yourself harder. Maybe it is worse than here. I don't know. Maybe there is nothing. Just black.

@Shaun Shaun, I can't be bothered with it. You shouldn't have to battle to exist. It's a nonsense. The whole infinite intelligence thing stinks. Which might be as to say that I stink. I don't know. But why would infinite intelligence need the ego. Or give each thing a sense of self. It's a joke. Why give a thinking mind if we aren't supposed to have one. Ohhh it's to survive. Why does the whole, one, infinite intelligence have to work to survive. It's bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. But I'll enver get it out of my head now, ever. Life can't return to how it was, I've come too far. And I can't sit around meditating. It freaks me out, I hate it. I fall asleep and have nightmares. Like the messed up dreams I have every single night. I'm so tired, just completely and utterly fed up. I wish you all the best, whatever you are man, I just can't do this much longer. It's just finding the right way out at the right moment, which will present itself I am sure.

@Rilles As 'Paul', whoever or whatever that is, I have so much gratitude for many things. For merely existing. I always thought that way. I have gratitude for my health. For my family, for my friends, for being reasonably intelligent, for my job, for my house... for many many things. But who the F is Paul?! He doesn't exist. So, thus, life has no meaning. If we don't exist and everything is fine how it is, then what is the point. People can't really argue with that. I hate meditating, I'll be honest. It freaks me out.

Please understand that they will not lock you up unless you are a danger to yourself and others. Talking at length face to face with someone who understands deeply can be extremely helpful. Look at it this way, does it really matter whether reality is made out of matter or consciousness? Existence means to stand out from or to be separate and nothing is separate from consciousness and that's why we say that no THING exists. Illusion does not mean that something is totally unreal and nonexistent, it just means that what's there is not what it seems.

[Shaun]

10 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@Paul92 Maybe you made your happiness contingent on having that girl. I feel for you. You can be happy without her though. It was just a belief. Also, you didn’t really understand the analogy, you’re reasserting the same beliefs. Nihilism is a thought, not realization. The realization is wonderful. Best of luck to you in any case. 

I am sure the realisation is wonderful but what scares me is that when the body dies, I re manifest and get tortured by isis or something else horrific. Is there a way to escape that possibility? I don't want the guy killing himself and coming back somewhere a lot worse.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Shaun

[Paul92]

@Nahm  No, I wouldn't say that I did. I was happy before I met her. I met her and I have never felt more alive. I adore her. I COULD text her any minute, telling her how much I miss her etc. But I don't. I love her enough to to realise she is probably better off without me and to just leave her alone and let her go her own way. But it doesn't make it any easier, it still hurts and I miss her. But that is NOT the route of all this, it just doesn't help.

@Shaun Haha you really think a mental health 'professional' here in the UK will understand any of what I am saying? One way ticket to the nuthouse my friend. It's all too confusing. I promise you, hand on heart, I have made my decision. I do not want to be here. It is just doing it. I swear to you. I pray that something out there will give 'me' strength to do it somehow.

I spent all the other night just say in the dark praying to all sorts of different things. God. The Universe. Machine Elves if they exist. Guardian Angels. Anything. I cried out, anything, please help me. Give me a sign, anything. Nothing comes. And I swear, there can't be that many alive right now that feel this bad. I prayed and begged for hours. I begged for them to look after that girl, too. Or at least just let it be that I can see her one last time before I go. I don't know how I am still here. I was in my loft tying rope to the beams, as it is the only place in my house that I can hang from. But hanging sucks. If there was a button I could press where Id get really sleepy and just go to sleep and not wake up, Id press it this instant.

[Jkris]

@Paul92 Pls help yourself and try to read carefully and contemplate.

Hey

 Paul you are repeating like a parrot again and again Paul don't exist Paul don't exist ? Who is this Paul ? Your memories about your body mind's life.Are you just thoughts,memories a mere physical body that exists ? 

Do Paul exist in deep sleep ? Who are you with out your memories ?

Nope you are part of the Infinite the entire universe like a drop in an ocean.can the drop is considered as a separate drop or it is the whole ocean.

Words can be misleading In Nondual sense there is only one existence.when they You don't exist means the physical sense of seperatedness or I feeling doesn't exist.And relatively that which is ever present is the only one that exists rest all created have begining and an end meaning the body mind will die not the real YOU.That which dont have permanant existance is a mithya - Not real.The body mind will relatively exist till the physical death.

So nothing will change after enlightenment except the I feeling will vanish.

Your life will be the same but peaceful and you cannot escape the duality till the physical death of your body.

Enlightenment is not nihilism.Nobody is asking to believe your mental imagination of purposeless Ness and meaninglessly worry about mental imagination of purposeless Ness.

Life will be more conscious more acceptance peaceful blissful and content after enlightenment.

I said previously if you don't find purpose in life create one.Life is duality knowing reality is Infinite non dual.

You will play the life as usual knowing you are not the body mind and the character Paul.

Enlightenment will not solve your money,physical health or other problems which you will face in the life.

No enlightened master commited suicide after realising truth.All wanted to spread the message and make people realize truth and reduce the suffering of humanity as much as possible.

Even if you commit suicide you will take re birth and suffer miserably.So why not give a try to realize truth this birth itself ?

Nothing more to say.

 

 

 

 

[Nahm]

42 minutes ago, Shaun said:

I am sure the realisation is wonderful but what scares me is that when the body dies, I re manifest and get tortured by isis or something else horrific. Is there a way to escape that possibility? I don't want the guy killing himself and coming back somewhere a lot worse.

You can’t escape that possibility because it’s not actually grounded in truth. You would have to do the consciousness / self realization work to realize that you are not the body. 

@Paul92 The True happiness of self realization is much deeper and richer than relationship love. Imagine discovering reality itself is made of Love. It’s pretty awesome, something I never could have thought or believed, but it did require the work of inspecting beliefs and getting honest & vulnerable. I hear you and respect your perspective though in that doing the work is not your path. I hope you realize you can find happiness. ??

[Nahm]

24 minutes ago, Jkris said:

No enlightened master commited suicide after realising truth.All wanted to spread the message and make people realize truth and reduce the suffering of humanity as much as possible.

 

Great point man. 

[Shaun]

12 minutes ago, Nahm said:

You can’t escape that possibility because it’s not actually grounded in truth. You would have to do the consciousness / self realization work to realize that you are not the body. 

@Paul92 The True happiness of self realization is much deeper and richer than relationship love. Imagine discovering reality itself is made of Love. It’s pretty awesome, something I never could have thought or believed, but it did require the work of inspecting beliefs and getting honest & vulnerable. I hear you and respect your perspective though in that doing the work is not your path. I hope you realize you can find happiness. ??

I know I am not the body, I am that which is aware of it but even still, the terror of being tortured or whatever is so incredibly intense that it seems to obscure that knowing and no peace is possible in such a situation unless you are some zen master.

 

 

@Paul92

Paul, the very fact that you are still posting here means that there's still some hope inside you. This is a great sign, please use that and seek support. You are still with us and that shows you have strength.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Shaun

[Paul92]

@Nahm  Not convinced it is made of love. What I'm experiencing now is not love.

@Mikael89 And what can they even do? I've seriously lost all hope. I know I'm repeating myself, but I don't want this anymore. Look at it this way, we all die eventually. No avoiding that. So really it makes no difference, does it?

@Jkris Can't you see how depressing what you are saying is? We don't exist. That is supposed to make existence meaningful, is it? This is not MY life is it? 

No enlightened master may not be suicidal. That is up to them. If they think that nothingness and not existing is liberating, then fine.

[Nahm]

2 minutes ago, Shaun said:

I know I am not the body, I am that which is aware of it but even still, the terror of being tortured or whatever is so incredibly intense that it seems to obscure that knowing and no peace is possible in such a situation unless you are some zen master.

I understand. It is not a small thing we’re talking about here, psychologically speaking. The flipping of reality in the revelation of the True Self is as lofty as it gets. When I said ‘inspecting beliefs and getting honest & vulnerable’, I mean in total, all the way, through all fears, ‘done to’ Nothing. The humility required is that of seeing you are not actually dealing with torture, but thinking and fear. Notice even the sneaky subtle usage of projection, in that there is a “Zen Master”. That is not a separate self, or individual being - that is your mind projecting as a protective mechanism, to maintain that you, relatively speaking, are not a “Zen Master”. Hopefully you see what I’m pointing at there. 

This is often a triggering comment, but that can be good if properly interpreted...you’d have to be honest with yourself to the degree you recognize a thought is a thought, and that’s all it is. The terror of being ‘tortured or whatever’ is not an actual problem you’re experiencing. Overthinking, and identifying with thought is the problem at hand. This is micro level of distinction & nuance that needs to be realized. On one hand it sounds void of compassion, as if I am blowing off the suffering of people tortured. On the other hand, liberation does require such acuity and awareness that a thought is just a thought, paradoxically going full circle to knowing the true self, and then compassion is inherent. 

If you have realized you’re not the body, also see that the thoughts are of the body. Look at you hand for example, knowing you are not your hand, and also realize you don’t believe the thought “hand”. It’s a learned word / definition / symbol. Notice the thought “hand” has been repeated so many time effortlessly that is is now taken for granted.  You’re not what a thought says you are, no matter what the thought is. Thinking and identification is the sneakiest most cunning little game imaginable. Deception will put you through levels of identification with superpowers, identities like “teacher”, “Master”, etc. These are titles for the seekers benefit, not the enlightened one. Do you see what I’m saying there?  The separate self will identify with higher and higher thoughts in fighting for it’s continuance.  It does get brutal, but it’s worthwhile. 

[Jkris]

@Paul92 If you don't want enlightenment don't pursue it.As simple as that.why making a big fuss about it ?

The greatest delusion is identifying the body mind as I mine myself "My" life ??? 

You will realize you exist not as body mind or the Maya the " I" feeling but the existence itself - what else purpose joy one will have in this life.

I assure you it will not be depressing as you imagine to be.But you will be very great full happy about pursuing truth - God realisation the ultimate purpose of life.

In deep sleep you are with out the I feeling .only in the waking state mind is clinging to that as I me my body my job my money my lover my life etc

Think about a life free from this disease called mind and utter selfishness I me mine.With out the I me mine you will not suffer.

Life will be authentic blissful.

Wish you good luck.Dont give to negative illusions of mind.

Give a try bro if after realising truth you find it the other way then do what ever you please to do.

There is a difference between imagining what Truth is and realising what Truth is.You are just scared of your own imagination of what truth is.

Once again wish you good luck.

[Nahm]

@Paul92 Definitely not trying to convince. Definitely telling you to do the work.

[Shaun]

@Mikael89

That reminds me of my insight that existence and nonexistence are exactly the same.

 

 

I agree, the ego is very good at making one experience bad and another good and it is all just conditioning as you say. So end ego, end suffering.

@Nahm

[Nahm]

@Mikael89 That is one solid argument dude. Nice. 

[Paul92]

@Mikael89  I've been to my doctor already. I have an appointment on the 29th to be assessed by a mental health team. I've been before. I've tried 2 medications. They were both horrendous, in terms of side effects and also messed with my mind. I'm not wasting my time with that any more. I'm not going into a hospital. I swear if they try and take me into somewhere like that then I'll be gone before you know it.

I REALLY don't understand how you can't find non-existence depressing. It's truly absurd.

I was baptised a Christian just after I was born. But I've never really believed. But how much more wonderful would Christianity be if were true? That we are all INDIVIDUAL souls. All INDIVIDUAL beings. Here together. Individual souls. You interact with different souls. All of creating ourselves, who we want to be. With free will. Then we live on, for eternity with one another, maybe just in different surroundings. PEOPLE, as INDIVIDUALS, not nothing as nothing playing with itself. Not just ONE thing fucking with itself. And well, if I am that thing, then my thoughts and everything must be ME. Thus, I don't like 'ME', and I'm ashamed that I invented a thing called an ego. It's sick. I'm selfish, clearly. It's all about me me me. One thing. Why can't I manifest something less complicated? It's absurd. Absolutely absurd.

@Jkris There you go again. I mean, don't get me wrong, I bloody appreciate you taking the time to write on here to me. But you've jsut said it yourself. I don't exist. Neither do you. So why are you addressing me on here? Why does anyone care if someone commits suicide? When ultimately, it makes ZERO difference to anything as I don't exist.

Whatever I am, or whatever this is, I have this weird urge, coming from somewhere to just end this. See what happens afterwards. I don't think anyone really knows.

What I don't understand is, pretty much every single NDE, people have talked about meeting other entities, even God or Jesus etc. Who knows.

Fed up. Tired. Head is a shed. Don't fear death anymore. I want out. Whatever I am, I can't be bothered anymore. Nothing matters.

[Paul92]

@Mikael89 Why would they?

And, well, you could change those things, if they are indeed how it is for you. No reason why nobody can't have a partner. No reason why nobody can't have friends.

I like being Paul. Whoever or whatever it is. It's when it comes to be that Paul doesn't exist. That is what sucks to me.

If I can't be Paul, I've no real interest in being anything else or whatever. If my friends are not my friends, they're just illusions, as in egos, then fuck this. I'd rather be dead. Might as well reincarnate as a fence post or something.

[Jkris]

@Paul92 I never said I don't exist you don't exist."I" feeling doesn't exist.I don't use the word non existence how can there be non existence ????

Relatively I and you exist as seperate individual manifestation (body mind )of the one.Vyaharika Sathyam - relative truth.

I don't believe in stories imaginations visions of people met Jesus Shiva Buddha they all are appearances in the self and not real.I don't understand the word near death experience ??? daily we are having death experience in deep sleep ???

I dont know how to imagine and delude with poor understanding of Advaitha I don't exist you don't exist ??? 

if you don't exist and I don't exist whom you are talking to ?First of all how can you talk if you don't exist ????

I said clearly Mr Paul you exist relatively as body mind (form)and absolutely as existence.(Formless )

And what's your point purpose posting your delusions if you are adamantly clinging to I don't exist story ?

yesterday Islamic terrorists bombed at 8 places killing nearly 200 injuring 400 plus in two churches and hotels in srilanka.like wise daily there are births and deaths on a relative level.Do you keep worrying about the deaths and births.

You and I as body mind will die one day too.Do we have any control over what's happening in this world ?

???

What ever happening is happening.Accept life as it comes and move on.???

[Paul92]

@Mikael89  I'm sure you said you go to church. Why is that?

Clearly, you don't believe in souls. Neither do I, actually. I was just saying I'd love it to be true. That if our thoughts, our mind, was our soul, just inhabiting a body for a while. I'd love that. To be honest, I'm not exactly the most handsome guy in the world, but I don't even care what my body is like. It is what it is. I don't have a problem with that. I'd take this form in another 'life', why not.

I wouldn't say I hate myself. No I don't. I don't hate 'Paul', whoever the F that is. He tries to be a good guy and do the right thing. But hey, if he doesn't exist, and I have no control over whatever this experience is, then isn't that just wonderful... or not.

How do you cope knowing your family, or who you think they, are not real?

@Jkris Oh so we do exist now, do we?

Separate manifestations of the one? Hmmm. Separate implies a duality? Have you seen the Truth?

Look, I just always always had a romantic vision of life. We were individuals. We don't know why we are here. But we were individuals. 100% independent entities. Souls MAYBE. We all had free will and we was just doing our best to live and survive and spread what is good.

Now, i don't exist as an entity, only as a mental fabrication of who I think Paul is. Paul is not typing this here, something else is, awareness or conscousness or God or whatever, I don't know. This body is possessed, but not by Paull. My family, my loved ones are not what I thought they were.

I bloody hope when I hang myself there is no more of this shit. Just black, nothing. Eternally nothing. It's a sick joke.

Actually, yeh I do worry about people dying. Well, I did. Now I guess I just have to accept it. A small child gets cancer. Oh it's all love, accept it. The child has done nothing wrong. Doesn't know what an ego is. Doesn't know about reality. Just has a sense of self he or she didn't ask for. Get a cruel cruel disease, that is painful. The child wants to go outside and play, but they can't because they have this disease. Oh just accept it, it's fine. Infinite intelligence is a joke. Fuck you universe.

[Shaun]

19 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

@Mikael89  I'm sure you said you go to church. Why is that?

Clearly, you don't believe in souls. Neither do I, actually. I was just saying I'd love it to be true. That if our thoughts, our mind, was our soul, just inhabiting a body for a while. I'd love that. To be honest, I'm not exactly the most handsome guy in the world, but I don't even care what my body is like. It is what it is. I don't have a problem with that. I'd take this form in another 'life', why not.

I wouldn't say I hate myself. No I don't. I don't hate 'Paul', whoever the F that is. He tries to be a good guy and do the right thing. But hey, if he doesn't exist, and I have no control over whatever this experience is, then isn't that just wonderful... or not.

How do you cope knowing your family, or who you think they, are not real?

@Jkris Oh so we do exist now, do we?

Separate manifestations of the one? Hmmm. Separate implies a duality? Have you seen the Truth?

Look, I just always always had a romantic vision of life. We were individuals. We don't know why we are here. But we were individuals. 100% independent entities. Souls MAYBE. We all had free will and we was just doing our best to live and survive and spread what is good.

Now, i don't exist as an entity, only as a mental fabrication of who I think Paul is. Paul is not typing this here, something else is, awareness or conscousness or God or whatever, I don't know. This body is possessed, but not by Paull. My family, my loved ones are not what I thought they were.

I bloody hope when I hang myself there is no more of this shit. Just black, nothing. Eternally nothing. It's a sick joke.

Actually, yeh I do worry about people dying. Well, I did. Now I guess I just have to accept it. A small child gets cancer. Oh it's all love, accept it. The child has done nothing wrong. Doesn't know what an ego is. Doesn't know about reality. Just has a sense of self he or she didn't ask for. Get a cruel cruel disease, that is painful. The child wants to go outside and play, but they can't because they have this disease. Oh just accept it, it's fine. Infinite intelligence is a joke. Fuck you universe.

You are right. It is very fucked up and that's because consciousness is totally impartial like the screen on your computer. Killing yourself will do nothing to solve that, I think enlightenment work is the only way.

[Nahm]

2 hours ago, Paul92 said:

I REALLY don't understand how you can't find non-existence depressing. It's truly absurd.

The word nonexistence literally says that there is no such thing as that-which-does-not-exist. It is a word, and idea, a belief. It is not an actuality.  It is your belief / thinking about nonexistence which is causing your depression (at least, in part)

39 minutes ago, Paul92 said:

How do you cope knowing your family, or who you think they, are not real?

 

There is no need to cope when one is in Love. That’s a silly notion. Real is infinitely better than you could ever believe or imagine, that is why you must do the work, to realize your beliefs are just beliefs, and the Truth is indeed wonderful. 

So glad to hear you made an appt. 

You seem to really be stuck on your current beliefs of what is real or not real. You are real. Your beliefs, that ego, the sense of ‘I already know everything’...that’s what’s giving you all the trouble. 

You are believing your assumptions. Lighten up. The Truth indeed ‘sets one free’. 

An easy conceptual path to the relief and humility of “I don’t know” is to consider that you are making claims that you know things which take some people entire lifetimes to know. “Not knowing” feels amazingly good. Asserting that you know when you don’t really, does not feel good. Dishonesty and arrogance does not feel good.  That is literally why it does not feel good, because the thought is not true. Perhaps there is an opportunity for you to listen to your own emotional guidance, granted you’ve got some beliefs to sort out too.   

[Jkris]

@Paul92 Keep imagining what ever you want and suffer.

Being a christian Do you blame Christ for all the sufferings of child getting cancer murder rape terrorism disease and all other cruelty ? Fuck Christ fuck the creation fuck the universe keep cursing you are cursing yourself in your mind and suffer.And universe doesn't care ????

All the best wether you choose to kill your body or realize truth and live blissfully.????