One last shot

[Paul92]

So I said I was going away. I didn't think I could feel any worse, but I do. 

I've spent a lot of time investigating DMT experiences etc over the last couple of days. It's clear that many thousands of people think that the world isn't what it seems. 

Does Paul exist? In spirit form? I don't think so. I don't know for sure, but it's unlikely. 

This whole nonduality thing has totally destroyed my life. I've not had an experience of it, but i don't know if I want it either. 

The thing is, when I read about DMT trips, people come back and still refer to themselves and others. Doesn't this go against everything said here? Leo is quite clear: you do not exist. So why do anything? 

Why shouldn't I kill myself? Believe me, I want to end it so bad. I'm not scared of dying anymore, and I'm not scared of hurting others. In truth, they probably don't exist anyway. 

Each day I wake up it gets harder and harder. I don't see any point in carrying on. I've googled all the possible ways of suicide. I don't want to jump off a bridge. I've set up a makeshift noose hanging from a beam in my loft, but that doesn't feel right. I tried to cut my wrists, then I fell asleep, but I woke up and the bleeding.had stopped.  I can't get my hands on pills to take. Truth is, killing yourself ain't easy, even when you've no desire to be here anymore. It's the strangest thing. 

I tried meditating today using Leo's do nothing method. I just let go and ended up falling to sleep. I had an horrific dream and woke up drenched in sweat. 

No appetite. No energy. Fuzzy head. Lost all hope. Reality isn't reality. 

And for whatever people will say here, "get help, see a professional" - it's not going to fix anything. In truth, if you're all adhering to nonduality, it makes no difference if I jack it in or not. 

So what are we doing here? I just read a post about sympathy on the other section. Why would we give sympathy to others if they don't exist? 

Everything you say here is probably right. But it makes everything pointless. Utterly pointless. 

If anyone has any ingenious tips on suicide or anything, please PM me. Anything that can help. Either dying or getting out of this. Shit I'd try dmt or something, but in the UK I've no idea how to source it. 

[Forestluv]

@Paul92

It sounds like your mind still wants to control the narrative.

There seems to be a storytelling dynamic occurring in which your mind is very immersed into. It is a highly repetitive and cyclical story.

Psychedelics would temporarily dissolve the storyteller in you. It doesn't need to be DMT, there are other substances.

[ajasatya]

1 hour ago, Paul92 said:

Leo is quite clear: you do not exist. So why do anything?

you're being dogmatic and that's why you're stuck. forget about what leo says and do your own investigation.

as an analogy, it's like trying to solve complex ordinary differential systems without knowing how to solve simple deterministic linear systems.

kill your buddhas. be your own authority. learn how to solve linear systems first.

[Paul92]

@ajasatya  I on't know what any of that really means I'm not being obtuse. Far from it. I want to understand, but I don't. I wish I could be my own authority. That is all I have ever been... but I don't know who I am or who anyone else is anymore... it's terrifying... have I gone mad?

 

@Mikael89  Are you in the UK? I'll be in a straight jacket within an hour. I'll never see outside again. That's no way to 'live', whatever living is.

Something needs to happen tonight. I can't carry on like this. It's not possible.

[ajasatya]

@Paul92 i REALLY think you're trying to bypass some fundamental problems. like, can you go out and have a simple conversation with a girl? how is your relationship with your parents? are they divorced? does their relationship hurt you?

don't overlook basic emotional problems. deal with them first. ground yourself. you can't go anywhere if you're just drifting around.

Edited April 21, 2019 by ajasatya

[Paul92]

@ajasatya Sure I can. Until about 3/4 weeks ago, I was with the girl of my dreams. Nobody else will ever compare to her. And now we don't speak and she has gone. My relationship with my parents is fine. They're loving. Gorwing up wasn't easy. They argued a lot and my dad was restrictive about what I was allowed to do. I guess I missed out on a lot of things compared to others. But it is what it is. Can't say it has affected me too greatly.

[ajasatya]

@Paul92 what do you enjoy doing? do you have a plan to survive after your parents die?

[Shaun]

Leo is a preacher of solipsism and that just breeds separation, psychosis and suicidal tendencies. I've seen it over and over again on here. I would advise not watching any more of his videos. He doesn't give a fuck about any of us, he has even admitted that. There are people who care though and I hope you can undo the damage which has been done.

[Paul92]

@ajasatya  There are many things I enjoy. Whoever 'I' am. I love playing guitar. I love driving. I love spending time with my friends. I love comedy. I love literature. But what's the point in all those things? Of course. I'm 26... I have everything I could want and more. I have my own house, secure steady job... no complaints in that regard.  My plan would be to just carry on as I am... I don't need a plan for when they pass. I think I will be going before them though.

@Shaun Can't prove him wrong though. And it tallies up with a lot of what others are saying. Sure I don't have any experience of it myself. But do I need to? It's pretty clear that we, as individuals, don't exist... we aren't the body, we aren't the mind... so what are we? Makes no difference whether we live or die. It doesnt make it any easier though. And then nondualists come on here talking to each other like they are individuals... makes no sense to me. And I don't have the resolve to try and work it out anymore. I hate meditating. It freaks me out, I always end up having nightmares or really crazy visions.

[Good-boy]

Suicide is hard man, call suicide prevention hotline for temporary relief. I am in the same shoe as you, don't know who the fuck am I and others around me, meditation and self inquiry scares the shit out of me now. 

[ajasatya]

1 hour ago, Paul92 said:

But what's the point in all those things?

because you enjoy. there is no other reason. enjoy your life and that's all you need to do. everything else is nonsense. leo does what he does because he enjoys it in the long run.

[Paul92]

@Good-boy  Mate, if I could just go to sleep knowing I wasnt going to wake up, I'd be fine with that. If I could press a button and then that's it, nothing, I'd do it right now. But every way of killing yourself is such a shitty process with risks it will go tits up. I'm sick of all of this. I'm sick of it all.

[Nahm]

@Paul92 Are you able to make the distinction between hearing about something and experiencing it? Like if someone told you sex was pointless and terrible, and then you experienced it directly and knew for yourself what is really was, for example. That’s what you have going on here. You’re projecting & experiencing denial. That is a tough combo because someone in denial truly does not know it. Psychoanalysis is made for this. Everything people are suggesting would help you with the specific things you are struggling with. But you’d have to stop projecting your existing belief that counseling won’t help, there’s no point in doing the work because you already know there’s no point, etc. We made a whole thread of personal experiences showing how many of us were where you are, and how utilizing resources, and doing the work - worked. (Happiness, Wholeness)

Do you have it in you to be humble, to admit you don’t really know what these things you’re talking about actually are? 

Is there any willingness to question your existing beliefs, as to how you really know they’re true?  

Can you be vulnerable enough to question your beliefs, to discover they are the source of your suffering?

Is there the open-mindedness & honesty to take that first step, and admit there is suffering?

 

Imo, you should be talking to a therapeutic professional, and your parents (honestly and openly), but in light of your resistance to do that...know that I’m available to talk, or simply listen. Hit me up anytime. 

Unfortunately I feel you will find a reason to box me out too...but for what it’s worth...Can you just consider that a guy with plenty of responsibilities, who is asking nothing of you, no money, no commitment, nothing in return, simple wants to help....can you just consider that perhaps you have been wrong about nonduality...perhaps there is a Love to be discovered which is so wonderful and moving, that people actually just want to help? You have the same access to this Love. It’s just a matter of trying.

[Paul92]

@ajasatya  Hmm. I did enjoy my life. But when you take a step back and realise it's probably not all what it seems, I find it difficult to go back there and enjoy it again. I've said many, many times that the thing that kept me going in life was other people. People as individual entities, real humans, maybe even with a soul. Without being able to enjoy real people, then I've got nothing to live for. 

@Nahm Appreciate that. But you still can't explain to me how my interpretation of nonduality is wrong. Trust me when I tell you, if I show up at a mental health practitioner's here in the UK and start telling them about my fears, like whether I am real etc, I will be locked up. Seriously. The Mental Health Act. I'll be sectioned, end of. I'd rather be dead. I want to be dead, I do, I swear on my eyes, I want to be dead. It's just doing it!!!

[Nahm]

@Paul92 Your interpretation is conceptual - thinking - an interpretation.  You are believing your idea of nonduality is the same as the direct experience. Like if you texted someone your thoughts about being on stage, playing guitar, etc - in comparison to that person actually being on a stage playing guitar with a band. Do you see how ENORMOUS the difference is?  If that person confused the two, they’d be thinking your words about playing with a band are the exact same thing as if they actually played with a band. So they would say things like, “Why would I bother playing with a band, I already know what it really is”.....and you’d be like “nope. No. No sir, that is not the same thing.”  This is what you are doing with nonduality, but you don’t seem to see it. Or you do but won’t honestly admit it. 

[Jkris]

@Paul92 Excellent brilliant the non existing Mr.Paul is taking the non existing Leo's words as absolute truth and trying hard to commit suicide ???

Paul dear since you don't exist I who think I exist request you to transfer all your money,house,assets etc to me who exist before you really do something cowardly and stupid to harm or die yourself which doesn't exist ???

.I who exist will be greatly thankful for that ???

Dear Mr. "Non existing" Paul pls share your existing parents phone nos so that the "existing" moderators can contact them and tell about the mental condition of "non existing paul" ???

Hopefully the non existing Mr.Paul will be admitted in a physchiatric hospital and given some electric shocks by the dr's to bring him back to senses if he is adamantly holding on to some very wrong understanding of Advaitha,life and keep believing his stupid mind's imagination of self harm,harming others and suicide.

Mr.Paul You exist and you need serious medical attention and counseling.Dont trust your mind.leave it to the professional s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Shaun]

Paul, I am going through pretty much the exact same thing but why kill yourself? The next life may be even worse than this one. I am in the process of getting the help I need and I would strongly urge you to do the same. In the meantime, I am in the process of de cluttering my life in an effort to suffer less. All the stuff I have accumulated has never brought the lasting happiness I thought it would. Take all the action you can to suffer less, and with the emotion that's left over, be fully present with it. Phone 999 and collapse in a heap on the floor and fully surrender to it if you have to, that's what I would do in a full on breakdown. You can be helped.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Shaun

[Rilles]

Youre stuck in an emotional loop. I suggest you step back and detach yourself. Do some serious meditation. Youre stuck in your identification with your thoughts and your body and you dont even realize it. Its hard but you have to go through this crisis. Youll come out better and stronger after. Trust me. 

 

Edit: Write a gratitude list, it helped me out of escapist thought-loops before. Just small things you are grateful for, try to keep it real basic.

Edited April 22, 2019 by Rilles

[Paul92]

@Nahm  I see what you're saying but I don't think the analogy you used is in anyway comparable to what is going off here. Sure, i've played in bands since I was 14. I could explain what it is like to play live to someone who never has. And it wouldn't be the same as them experiencing it. But the fundamentals are still there. You stand on a stage and you play in front of people. And nonduality, existence and everything, is on a different scale, surely? Oh by the way, you don't exist! There is no Paul! Nor do your friends or family! We are all the same thing just playing itself out. But until you've experienced it, you wont understand that we are all the same thing and you don't exist! Everyone here, and others who have had experiences, all say that we don't exist and reality is an illusion. But you don't need to go with that evidence... even though logically, you can see how it might be true. But hey, you are still you! But you aren't! Wtf... Come on man, you must appreciate how bonkers this sounds.

@Jkris Yeh, I guess I am taking him at his word. Because many other experiences seem to correlate with what he is saying. And you can't escape that life might not be all it seems. And well, frankly, if it isn't, then I have no desire to be here, whatever I am. I don't know what comes next, but I suspect not a lot, weirdly.

Anyone can have my money, all tht I have. I don't care about material possessions. I care about being Paul, and others being them. But who are they?!? Who are my loved ones? They don't exist! I don't want to play this game anymore I really don't. I'll die before I ever get put in a crazy house. I'm not sharing their number with anyone. I spoke to my dad and told him him where I was at. He told me basically what some people say here. He told me to read Tolle. Which put me in the position I am in now. This whole thing is nihilism. It really is. It makes everything utterly pointless.

@Mikael89 My friend, appreciate the input, but I'd rather be dead than be put in one of those places. Sorry, just how it is. My life is never going to be how it was before, and I can't stand that. I'm just surviving at the moment, and I don't know how. I was cutting myself again last night, just hoping that I'll get it right and there's no turning back. I'm so sick of this joke of an existence.

I still don't understand how those of you who say you have had experiences of nonduality can all just carry on referring to others as others. Why pursue a girl? If she is you? Why pursue sex? If you are making love to yourself... or a bunch of random particles. Makes zero sesne. Life, in this form, is a joke.

I don't know what comes next, which makes killing yourself harder. Maybe it is worse than here. I don't know. Maybe there is nothing. Just black.

@Shaun Shaun, I can't be bothered with it. You shouldn't have to battle to exist. It's a nonsense. The whole infinite intelligence thing stinks. Which might be as to say that I stink. I don't know. But why would infinite intelligence need the ego. Or give each thing a sense of self. It's a joke. Why give a thinking mind if we aren't supposed to have one. Ohhh it's to survive. Why does the whole, one, infinite intelligence have to work to survive. It's bullshit, bullshit, bullshit. But I'll enver get it out of my head now, ever. Life can't return to how it was, I've come too far. And I can't sit around meditating. It freaks me out, I hate it. I fall asleep and have nightmares. Like the messed up dreams I have every single night. I'm so tired, just completely and utterly fed up. I wish you all the best, whatever you are man, I just can't do this much longer. It's just finding the right way out at the right moment, which will present itself I am sure.

@Rilles As 'Paul', whoever or whatever that is, I have so much gratitude for many things. For merely existing. I always thought that way. I have gratitude for my health. For my family, for my friends, for being reasonably intelligent, for my job, for my house... for many many things. But who the F is Paul?! He doesn't exist. So, thus, life has no meaning. If we don't exist and everything is fine how it is, then what is the point. People can't really argue with that. I hate meditating, I'll be honest. It freaks me out.

[Nahm]

@Paul92 Maybe you made your happiness contingent on having that girl. I feel for you. You can be happy without her though. It was just a belief. Also, you didn’t really understand the analogy, you’re reasserting the same beliefs. Nihilism is a thought, not realization. The realization is wonderful. Best of luck to you in any case.