How much is the self an illusion?

[sausagehead]

Is life basically just a movie but you're not the actor? Does everyone have 0 control over everything that has happened to them and that will happen? I've suffered a ton in my life and would be relieved to realize that it was all supposed to happen or inevitable. From a certain perspective it seems like I have control over my health and that's why I go to the gym, but from a higher perspective is it true that I'm not actually the one deciding to improve my health therefore I still have no control over anything? Is everything I say, think, and do always inevitable and serving the greater good? Maybe there can't be anyone in control due to the fact that there would be an infinite regress when you break down who or what would be doing anything if that makes any sense.. Also if there's absolutely no self and everything is perfect as they say wouldn't that give you more of a reason to take risks and do the things you fear? Afterall if I'm hesitant to approach an attractive girl and talk to her, I could just remind myself that my approach is actually serving the highest good even if I do get rejected or make an ass of myself. I'm very interested in the implications of no self and the idea/truth that everything is actually perfect at all times because no self implies that there's nothing to regret or worry about in the future and if everything is perfect then all risks you take will be beneficial in some way....

Edited April 20, 2019 by sausagehead

[Forestluv]

@sausagehead It sounds like there is still an assumption of a self in your post - based on the usage of “I”. Notice how you use the term “I” above as if it is a real thing, a real entity. Exactly what is that “I”?

To deconstruct the psychological self, I would spend more time and effort observing your own psychological dynamics as they appear in the mind. As well as self inquiry. What is your “self”? Is it your thoughts? Is it memories? Feelings? The brain? The body?

In this area, I’ve found it more helpful to observe and dig into what is actual, then vague abstractions and concepts. 

[sausagehead]

I feel like you made an important observation but I get lost in a house of mirrors when I do self inquiry. I guess that's the nature of the ego and why all of this work is so challenging... I'll be more observant of the I and see where that leads... 

Edited April 20, 2019 by sausagehead

[Leo Gura]

Quote

"How much is the self an illusion?"

Only the whole thing.

It's WAY WAY WAY more radical than you can imagine. When you finally realize that you never even existed, that you were never even born, it leaves you totally speechless and baffled. Like, "WTF?????!!!!!! There was never a me? How is that even possible?????"

[Forestluv]

4 minutes ago, sausagehead said:

I get lost in a house of mirrors when I do self inquiry. 

Haha, yes. That is a great metaphor. . . Isn’t a house of mirrors a form of illusion?

[sausagehead]

55 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Only the whole thing.

It's WAY WAY WAY more radical than you can imagine. When you finally realize that you never even existed, that you were never even born, it leaves you totally speechless and baffled. Like, "WTF?????!!!!!! There was never a me? How is that even possible?????"

No way lol. I don't know if that would be liberating or depressing, sounds like a weird combination of both.. This must mean that all forms of self consciousness are deluded and therefore causing massive amounts of unhappiness for no reason. People are trying to protect and enhance a self that doesn't even exist through the opinions of others who also don't exist. All the behavior that's dictated on the opinions of others must be bullshit, everything must be bullshit.

Edited April 20, 2019 by sausagehead

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, sausagehead said:

No way lol. I don't know if that would be liberating or depressing, sounds like a weird combination of both.. This must mean that all forms of self consciousness are deluded and therefore causing massive amounts of unhappiness for no reason. People are trying to protect and enhance a self that doesn't even exist through the opinions of others who also don't exist. All the behavior that's dictated on the opinions of others must be bullshit, everything must be bullshit.

Indeed

There is good reason for unhappiness and delusion though. It keeps you alive.

If all delusion was removed tomorrow, society would collapse into anarchy and cannibalism.

You can remove delusion within yourself, but doing it across all of society is unworkable at this point in human evolution. Society is like a house of cards held together with snot (delusion). If you insist too much on cleaning up all the snot, it will all fall apart. So the snot must be cleaned up very carefully and gradually to prevent catastrophic collapse.

[Nahm]

@sausagehead The best attitude will serve you the best. Sounds like you’ve got that figured out. Notice how circumstance, situations, and people frustrate you, trigger you, etc. Observe the steps that unfold there in slow motion. Notice the role your interpretation and contextualization play in terms of how you feel in relation (or not) to what is seen & heard. Trust your emotions, not your thoughts. There are no ‘bad’ emotions. There is internal emotional support letting you know when your thoughts are not true. It’s difficult to actually listen to your emotions, but you’ll save tons of time if you get in tune with them asap. And...there is no such thing as a past or future. Dwell on “the past” if you choose to, just be conscious it is now, where / when you are choosing to do so. Try bringing awareness to sight, sound, feeling, etc - where you are now, instead. Good luck! 

[tedens]

21 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Like, "WTF?????!!!!!! There was never a me? How is that even possible?????"

Try this in your meta work and add to it "how is something even possible"?

[Shin]

22 hours ago, sausagehead said:

No way lol. I don't know if that would be liberating or depressing,

You need to think you exist as a self to be depressed.

You need a story saying that something is bad for you to be sad.

 

All the questions in your original post are very good, stay with the intention to know.

Just don't ask with your mind and thoughts,
Ask with your intention/will and let the answer come.

You need to be totally clueless as what the answer can be.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Shin