"My Descent into the Alt-Right Pipeline" Good video on internet radicalisation.

[Andreas]

1 hour ago, Etherial Cat said:

Leo is not being an ideologue. Ideas are neutral, the problem is that they are getting appropriated by groups.

In an Orange society, progressiste are going to advocate for more Green. If those are currently defended by the left, well, you'll get labelled and judged as a leftist.

That's about it. 

Im sorry but that’s total bullshit. By your definition nobody is an ideologue because ideas are neutral. This is just pointing the finger outwards as always.

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Etherial Cat said:

In an Orange society, progressiste are going to advocate for more Green. If those are currently defended by the left, well, you'll get labelled and judged as a leftist.

That's about it. 

Ime, the direct experience is key. Orange would much rather stay in a debate intellectualizing within a left vs. right frame. That is much more comfortable to them than gaining direct experience of Green.

17 minutes ago, Andreas said:

Im sorry but that’s total bullshit. By your definition nobody is an ideologue because ideas are neutral. This is just pointing the finger outwards as always.

Consider attachment and identification to ideas.

 

[Andreas]

4 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

An idea becomes an ideology when an ego, single or collective, become identified with it.

Yes. And his point was that that is what Leo is doing. Defending it through stigmatization. 

[Andreas]

25 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Lol. Ok.

And in your opinion, why would Leo's ego benefit from being a lefty ideologue?  I'm curious.

Because it would benefit him in the end. That’s the hole point in defending an ideology. I don’t see anything funny in that. 

[d0ornokey]

17 hours ago, whoareyou said:

Can you list some of the system inequalities that you are talking about here?

My point is - It is much easier to play the victim and use it as an excuse to sit on the couch and not do anything. There are plenty of people doing that. This is what I mean by playing the victim. If you always told by everyone around you that you are a victim - that will only reinforce the victim mindset. It is very profitable for the Democratic Party to repeat this mantra and keep African Americans in the victim mindset, all in order to get their votes.

Those Black Americans who were born in the last 20 years in US, still have more opportunities than the people who are living in 3rd world countries. It is not even close. If you observed closely enough, you will see that the Africans that come from Africa and immigrate to US, and the African Americans who were born in US are very different. The biggest difference is the mindset, and thus why you see the ones from Africa having such higher quality of lives.

There are things that you can't change, and there are things that you can. Why not do the best with what you have, instead of playing the victim and give yourself excuses to not take action?

As a kind remark, do consider what make you have the resources that allowed for your achievements/success as well as privilege and consider that others did not have those same resources as you 

All else equal:

It is much much easier to make the NBA when your father was in the NBA 

Or if you grew up in a basketball culture 

Or if you had access to resources that others didn't, such as a good basketball school, a basketball court in your neighborhood, mentors in basketball, parents that allowed you to flourish in your basketball passions, etc. 

Obstacles are a TRUE reality and barrier to success. 

On one hand yes, you can overcome most obstacles with grit and effort

But consider that there is more than victim mentality here. Consider that some obstacles and lack of resources can make it thousands of times harder. 

Consider the topic of escaping wage slavery.

For me, it's much easier considering I had $$ from my parents (don't have to work for investment, debt or capital for my biz)

Don't have rent or cost of living expenses (don't need to get a job, saves me soooo much time) 

I have very easy access to successful entrereneurs (can take some people ages to get these resources)

Etc. Etc. 

Each privilege has its advantage. Tally them up and you'll see. 

Everyone has their own breaking points. Not everyone has unstoppable grit that lasts years. That takes a lot of privelege to have. A strong support system, a good childhood, good friends, mentors, money, good education, free time, lack of responsibilities, knowledge, and most importantly wisdom. Someone without any of these makes it much, much harder. I'd even say near impossible. 

People not succeeding at something is NOT purely victim mentality. It's only one aspect of many. 

For me, had I not been shown Leo I would never have broken my victim mentality. How many people don't know Leo? How many people are close minded to Leo and will never listen to him because someone told them that personal development is BS and therefore they will never look into Leo and nobody ever taught them the importance of being open-minded so they're stuck deep in their beliefs. 

 

I have a friend starting a business. She's a single mom with 2 kids. She has none of my privilege. My resources and privilege gives me a 100x easier time than her 

There IS an easy mode and hard mode. Not everyone has the mental fortitude to bust thru hard mode. 

 

[Joel3102]

If all mystics are radical lefties why is even Ken Wilber, somebody who’s woke af and aware of the spiral critical of the modern left for going too far?

[Key Elements]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Key Elements Some people are beyond help. Most people actually.

In other words, when you point a direction, they don't stop to contemplate for a while what you actually mean. They misinterpret and go the wrong direction. This sets them off on a long tangent. Change that will benefit the person as well as others will only come when the average Joe realizes that he's going off on the wrong tangent. It is possible to continue to look for ways to resolve this. Don't give up. To do this, you know that you cannot be walking down the same road and getting the same results.

[Andreas]

2 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

In other words, when you point a direction, they don't stop to contemplate for a while what you actually mean. They misinterpret and go the wrong direction. This sets them off on a long tangent. Change that will benefit the person as well as others will only come when the average Joe realizes that he's going off on the wrong tangent. It is possible to continue to look for ways to resolve this. Don't give up. To do this, you know that you cannot be walking down the same road and getting the same results.

And you and him are immune to this, correct? Anyone who disagrees is closeminded/unconscious and anyone who agrees understands and is stage whatever and super conscious. 

[Key Elements]

9 minutes ago, Andreas said:

And you and him are immune to this, correct? Anyone who disagrees is closeminded/unconscious and anyone who agrees understands and is stage whatever and super conscious. 

Is this what I said to Leo? No.

[Andreas]

4 minutes ago, Key Elements said:

Is this what I said to Leo? No.

This is you justifying this behaviour. Very cultish.

[Forestluv]

@Andreas Based on this thread and the thread about genetics - it seems like your mind has a binary orientation. I.e. it sees things as two different sides, opposed to each other. For example, this idea vs that idea. This person is "x" against that person who is "y". It is much more nuanced than this. There are spectrum, partial truths, relativism, nonlinear understandings, integration of various perspectives, paradoxes etc.

[lmfao]

On 20/04/2019 at 8:40 AM, Leo Gura said:

The Alt-right rabbit hole goes something like this: Joe Rogan >> Sam Harris >> Dave Rubin >> Jordan Peterson >> Ben Shapiro >> Stefan Molyneux >> Alt-right

I have liked Joe rogan, Sam harris, Jordan peterson from this list. 

Rubin, shapiro, molyneux? Nahhhh. 

 

[Andreas]

3 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Andreas Based on this thread and the thread about genetics - it seems like your mind has a binary orientation. I.e. it sees things as two different sides, opposed to each other. For example, this idea vs that idea. This person is "x" against that person who is "y". It is much more nuanced than this. There are spectrum, partial truths, relativism, nonlinear understandings, integration of various perspectives, paradoxes etc.

Im not sure what you mean by that in the context of this thread. Could you elaborate on that? 

[Key Elements]

11 minutes ago, Andreas said:

This is you justifying this behaviour. Very cultish.

If you go around misinterpreting, misunderstanding, and projecting what others are saying, no one will be interested discussing anything with you. I'm not interested. Enough of this spamming. Final warning.

[Forestluv]

@Andreas Observe what arises in your mind without attachment. It seems like your mind is putting people into categories "He is cultish", "That is bullshit", "She is close-minded".

These are all very "either / or" perspectives. A person is cultish or non-cultish. They are full of bullshit or non-bullshit. They are either close-minded or open-minded. This is binary thinking.

For me, a good way to expand thinking skills to the next level is to become aware of mixtures and spectrums. Go back to those views that are "total bullshit". Are they really total bullshit? Can you find something of value within the bullshit? To those that your mind categorizes as "close-minded" are they completely "close-minded"? Are could they be close-minded in certain respects and fairly open-minded in other respects. For those ideas that you see as being bullshit, can you see that that is a perspective and from the other person's perspective it's not bullshit. Just because an idea may seem true to you, does that mean it is true for everyone else?

[kieranperez]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

There are many Jesus-level mystics alive on the planet right now. You can meet them face to face.

How do YOU find out about these people?

Just balls deep in research? 

Where do you even tend to find these people geographically at least? 

My intent for near the end of this year and 2020 is to meet these people but I don’t get how you find out about these people. 

[Andreas]

1 hour ago, Key Elements said:

If you go around misinterpreting, misunderstanding, and projecting what others are saying, no one will be interested discussing anything with you. I'm not interested. Enough of this spamming. Final warning.

Misinterpreting and misunderstanding, also know as holding a different opinion. Projecting what others are saying, also known as expressing a different opinion.

My view is that a lot of people on here attack the messenger because they cannot deal with a message. Gaslighting anyone who holds a different perspective. One might call another the devil, unconscious, less developed, stage X, rigid or closeminded. People are not giving criticism to each other ideas, but rather who they are because they themselves disagree with their ideas. Abusing your position as a moderator just strengthens my position. If you disagree with me then please articulate your disagreement regarding what I say, not who I am. 

 

1 hour ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Andreas Observe what arises in your mind without attachment. It seems like your mind is putting people into categories "He is cultish", "That is bullshit", "She is close-minded".

These are all very "either / or" perspectives. A person is cultish or non-cultish. They are full of bullshit or non-bullshit. They are either close-minded or open-minded. This is binary thinking.

For me, a good way to expand thinking skills to the next level is to become aware of mixtures and spectrums. Go back to those views that are "total bullshit". Are they really total bullshit? Can you find something of value within the bullshit? To those that your mind categorizes as "close-minded" are they completely "close-minded"? Are could they be close-minded in certain respects and fairly open-minded in other respects. For those ideas that you see as being bullshit, can you see that that is a perspective and from the other person's perspective it's not bullshit. Just because an idea may seem true to you, does that mean it is true for everyone else?

I give criticism on what a person says or does, not who they are. Their behaviour is cultish, their views are bullshit. There might be people who think that the earth is flat, but it doesn't mean the earth is flat. It does not make them stupid, wrong or anything negative it just means that their views are flawed. Then you can and should help them using objective arguments regarding what they say. 

I think what you might be trying to say is focus more on why the person thinks what they think. 

Edited April 22, 2019 by Andreas

[Forestluv]

@Andreas I’m not pointing at personalities. Although personalities is fuel for the fire. I am pointing more toward ideas, attachments and identifications. 

A mind can be oriented toward binary objectivist thinking. Nothing wrong with that, yet it is a contracted mind state and more expansive mind states are possible. It is part of the awakening and development process.

[Andreas]

1 minute ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Andreas I’m not pointing at personalities. Although personalities is fuel for the fire. I am pointing more toward ideas, attachments and identifications. 

A mind can be oriented toward binary objectivist thinking. Nothing wrong with that, yet it is a contracted mind state and more expansive mind states are possible. It is part of the awakening and development process.

Il have a look into it. Thank you for pointing it out to me. 

[Forestluv]

5 minutes ago, Andreas said:

Il have a look into it. Thank you for pointing it out to me. 

One question I often ask myself is if I have a stronger desire to be right and protect my beliefs or if I have a stronger desire to observe the underlying nature of my thoughts / beliefs and expand my awareness. When I am honest with myself, sometimes the answer is the former.

It’s one of the hardest things to do in consciousness work and something I am still working on. Leo explains in very well in his 65 keys to a good life video