Various Spiral Dynamics Questions

[MLKFan]

What is the difference between Islam and Evangelicals that one is near the bottom of blue and one is at the top?

What would a low yellow vs a high yellow look like? Right now, all yellow looks the same to me; I can't envision what a high vs low yellow would look like.

What would a turquoise who didn't properly integrate yellow look like?

Green spirituality seems underwhelming to me, from what I understand. It's just people taking yoga classes and tripping at festivals and meditating 15 minutes a day. Why is this taken seriously? Purple, Blue, and Turquoise spirituality seem tough and then green seems casual.

There seems to be many greens who are science rational atheist people who reject anything spiritual. This conflicts with the model, doesn't it? The model says that green spirituality is about the power being with you, best explored with others. Yes, I know there are lines of development, but it seems to me like lots of liberal people are rationalists and that green spirituality is actually only at the tip of green.

How can it be said that green worships turquoise people? Isn't that only a small portion of green who are spiritual? Surely liberals don't worship gurus, do they?

What exactly is beige? The only examples I get are unusual circumstances like babies and mentally disabled and starving masses. What is beige culture like? Is it cavemen and hunter-gatherers?

How does red see the other stages?

Yellow is such a small percentage of the population, isn't it? If this is the case, then how is it so easy to know how the other stages see it? (I.E. blue sees them as intellectuals, orange sees them as impractical philosophy, green sees them as dispassionate) Who exactly are the other stages looking at when making these judgements? This also begs the question of how was stage yellow even studied properly by the model makers.

It is said that a broad perspective of the world starts at stage yellow. Before yellow, people are myopic. But, don't green people care about world issues too? What is the precise difference?

 

[WaterfallMachine]

What is the difference between Islam and Evangelicals that one is near the bottom of blue and one is at the top? 

There is no specific stage for each religion, often there are people of different stages in each religion. If you'd like a type of Islam that often associates themselves with higher stages, look for Sufi Islam practices.

What would a low yellow vs a high yellow look like? Right now, all yellow looks the same to me; I can't envision what a high vs low yellow would look like.

Low yellow is self aware of the different stages, but has terrible social skills to make changes with it. High yellow really knows how.

What would a turquoise who didn't properly integrate yellow look like?

Probably similar to me, actually. A little too hard on ourselves on our ambitions, a habit of projecting our inner critics on others, and basically overthinking the social process of gaining allies here.

Green spirituality seems underwhelming to me, from what I understand. It's just people taking yoga classes and tripping at festivals and meditating 15 minutes a day. Why is this taken seriously? Purple, Blue, and Turquoise spirituality seem tough and then green seems casual.

You are mistaking Green examples for the idea of Green itself. It's not just doing all of these, because you can be Orange and just doing all this just to make your reputation look better. It's more than that. Green is more of an acceptance that success isn't going to make you happy, and giving a shit is really what true strength is. Not many people can do that if you ask me.

There seems to be many greens who are science rational atheist people who reject anything spiritual. This conflicts with the model, doesn't it? The model says that green spirituality is about the power being with you, best explored with others. Yes, I know there are lines of development, but it seems to me like lots of liberal people are rationalists and that green spirituality is actually only at the tip of green.

Religion is not the same as spirituality. In fact, the crazy fundamentalists religions are often Blue. Religion is just organized religion, while spirituality is gaining self awareness through reflection and being kind. Green actually has a lot of the rationality Blue often doesn't have, and while seemingly overemotional to some of the, especially lower levels, from outside, they sound overoptimistic. Except you know, they actually act on their kindness instead of just criticizing the idiots without making any progress.

How can it be said that green worships turquoise people? Isn't that only a small portion of green who are spiritual? Surely liberals don't worship gurus, do they?

There's nothing in the definition of liberals about that.

What exactly is beige? The only examples I get are unusual circumstances like babies and mentally disabled and starving masses. What is beige culture like? Is it cavemen and hunter-gatherers?

Yes, pretty much.

How does red see the other stages?

Basically wanting to force everything they have on others.

Yellow is such a small percentage of the population, isn't it? If this is the case, then how is it so easy to know how the other stages see it? (I.E. blue sees them as intellectuals, orange sees them as impractical philosophy, green sees them as dispassionate) Who exactly are the other stages looking at when making these judgements? This also begs the question of how was stage yellow even studied properly by the model makers.

Often by studying a large case of people, of course. Small percentages don't equal the exact amount of people. It can be still thousands of course, but when a percentage is compared to the human race, it's of course going to look small. Know your statistics.

It is said that a broad perspective of the world starts at stage yellow. Before yellow, people are myopic. But, don't green people care about world issues too? What is the precise difference?

They know the root cause of issues rather than just fixing the symptoms. Take time to read on it before asking these questions.

 

 

 

Edited April 23, 2019 by WaterfallMachine

[Joseph Maynor]

I hope more people will chime in on this question.  I'll take a crack at answering some of this question myself soon.  I need to gather my thoughts somewhat.  Great question!

Edited April 26, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[tenta]

What do you think of this?

 

[Nivsch]

@MLKFan Green people still use rational thinking they have learned from orange. Green doesnt cancel that but only add more styles of thinking. For example green scientists will be rational but also much more intuitive and creative.

Orange thinks that intuition is like a religion and misleading thinking we should avoid.

Orange uses rationality as an ideology and the 'only good way' to think.

Green uses rationality only when he thinks its nessesary.

Edited April 28, 2019 by Nivsch

[Joseph Maynor]

(1) What is the difference between Islam and Evangelicals that one is near the bottom of blue and one is at the top?

Christianity benefited from being right in the center of Modern European Philosophy and all the ideas that went along with that.  Islam missed out on this Modern European Philosophy influence that Christianity was right in the heart of.  Islamic Philosophy influenced Medieval European Philosophy a bunch though.  Christian Theology is very much influenced by Modern European Philosophy.  This might explain your intuition which I think is a good one, although I wouldn't use the word "Evangelicals"; I would use the word "Christians"; or more accurately, Christian Theology vs. Islamic Theology.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_philosophy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_philosophy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_philosophy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_theology

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schools_of_Islamic_theology

(2) What would a low yellow vs a high yellow look like? Right now, all yellow looks the same to me; I can't envision what a high vs low yellow would look like.

Low Yellow looks like a Green who has integrated the pros of Orange.  High Yellow looks like a master of conceptual thinking and systems thinking.

(3) What would a turquoise who didn't properly integrate yellow look like?

Lacking the conceptual understanding capacity that a fully Yellow person has: the ability to balance linear and paradoxical thinking.

(4) Green spirituality seems underwhelming to me, from what I understand. It's just people taking yoga classes and tripping at festivals and meditating 15 minutes a day. Why is this taken seriously? Purple, Blue, and Turquoise spirituality seem tough and then green seems casual.

Being an authentic person and social ethics are also part of Green's spirituality,  Green wants to help others and has a strong sense of justice and fairness that they project onto reality.

(5) There seems to be many greens who are science rational atheist people who reject anything spiritual. This conflicts with the model, doesn't it? The model says that green spirituality is about the power being with you, best explored with others. Yes, I know there are lines of development, but it seems to me like lots of liberal people are rationalists and that green spirituality is actually only at the tip of green.

Being an authentic person and social ethics are also part of Green's spirituality,  Green wants to help others and has a strong sense of justice and fairness that they project onto reality.

(6) How can it be said that green worships turquoise people? Isn't that only a small portion of green who are spiritual? Surely liberals don't worship gurus, do they?

People's egos tend to place them up two levels on the spiral.  So, Green likes to think of themselves as being Turquoise unless they are really in touch with who they are and what they are on the spiral.

(7) What exactly is beige? The only examples I get are unusual circumstances like babies and mentally disabled and starving masses. What is beige culture like? Is it cavemen and hunter-gatherers?

Some bums on the street are at beige.

(8) How does red see the other stages?

Red sees the other stages as scared fools.

(9) Yellow is such a small percentage of the population, isn't it? If this is the case, then how is it so easy to know how the other stages see it? (I.E. blue sees them as intellectuals, orange sees them as impractical philosophy, green sees them as dispassionate) Who exactly are the other stages looking at when making these judgements? This also begs the question of how was stage yellow even studied properly by the model makers.

There are plenty of Yellow people around.  We know what Yellow is even if we can't place it.  In other words, all of us have been impacted by Yellow people and have reacted to them in our lives.

(10) It is said that a broad perspective of the world starts at stage yellow. Before yellow, people are myopic. But, don't green people care about world issues too? What is the precise difference?

Green has a broad perspective but lacks the conceptual development and the integration of dualities that Yellow has achieved.

Edited May 9, 2019 by Joseph Maynor

[Lister]

I'm no expert (at anything really) but I am also finding spiral dynamics a little bit confusing, so in my understanding I don't take it seriously as a model of how things actually are, but a good way to capture different ways of thinking that have evolved over time and understand how they can conflict with each other but not to take one position completely, but to integrate all positions into one whole - which is yellow thinking I believe? Not sure, I'm as ignorant on the subject as the next person. But I definitely see a lot of these characters in my own personality. I get the feeling that if for example you are at orange and dislike blue thinking then you have a shadow to integrate. You shouldn't really try to develop green until orange is nicely embodied.

Edited May 8, 2019 by Lister

[Joseph Maynor]

I'm interested in someone else taking a crack at these question.  See my answers.