Amazing BatGap Interview - Harri Aalto (Enlightened Since 4)

[AlwaysBeNice]

53 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

This topic goes way beyond realization.

And what I'm saying is that there is no such thing as one "realization". That's an abstraction. In fact, each realization is unique, with a unique depth, breadth, level of embodiment, and corresponding state of consciousness.

And none of this contradicts Oneness or the Absolute.

You have to appreciate that realization does not happen in isolation. It is always intermixed with mind and brain. With one's state of development, with one's body, with one's energetic system, etc. The realization is happening through a unique human body and mind. So no two realizations are identical even though the Absolute is one.

The Absolute is always the case, but one's awareness and understanding of the Absolute varies a great deal. Case in point, a mule does not understand the Absolute even though the Absolute is there in the mule. A mule is not aware of God, even though it is God.

'Each realization'? What do you think I mean with realization?

It's about seeing you are not in anything, it's absence of self-obsessed crap.

You have no idea if a mule is not aware of God.

50 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Not so fast grasshopper. . . 

Once the mind goes trans-egoic, lots of space opens up for new stuff to flourish. Yes, it’s still all a dream, yet the dream takes a new turn and becomes very interesting. 

When a mind is no longer spending 99% of it’s time obsessing over trivial crap - there is A LOT more space. Imagine going a full day without a single thought. Do you really think that will be a “normal” day?

Why wouldn't it be a normal day?

[NoSelfSelf]

@Serotoninluv Hes a good example of whats not a weakminded person he continue with his purpose even though everything was againts it he could of say well i cant do shit now...he found a way...so its not just his talent that made him great...

[kieranperez]

11 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

Thats what im saying thats so weakminded...personal development showed me that anything is possible and faith and belief is always a backbone

You're not backing up anything your saying with any concrete examples lol. How about this. Do your little exercises and then you and I can meet at the track and you can race my friend who was a Bronze medalist in the 2012 Olympics in the 800m and let's how far your visualization will serve you then. 

There's a reason no top female athlete tends to not even come close to their male counter parts in their field. The fastest female sprinter ain't going to touch Usain Bolt in the 200m. Paula Radcliffe's untouchable world record in the marathon is 2:15:25. Eliud Kipchoge's most recent marathon record is 2:01:39. Reason? Genetics. There's a reason East Africans dominate middle/long distance running by a HUGE margin. There's a reason West Africans dominate the world of sprinting by a HUGE margin. There's a reason Australians and Americans dominate swimming. Genetics. Genetics. GENETICS.

Deny what you see on the screen all you want. Deny your direct experience all you want. Your problem. 

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I have taken a break from yoga and even meditation lately.

My spirituality is becoming more organic and natural to the point where I am surrendering my rigid practices.

Remember that the ultimate goal is for your entire life to become one seamless act of meditation, creativity, and love. You become God-like.

Man, that's so out of convention. That's awesome you've found that for yourself.

Now that's a counter-intuitive move right there.

Have you not replaced them with anything else? 

Just now, NoSelfSelf said:

@Serotoninluv Hes a good example of whats not a weakminded person he continue with his purpose even though everything was againts it he could of say well i cant do shit now...he found a way...so its not just his talent that made him great...

Where the hell are you getting your examples? LOL

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

'Each realization'? What do you think I mean with realization?

I mean becoming conscious of Truth/God.

Quote

It's about seeing you are not in anything, it's absence of self-obsessed crap.

Yes, and this is a complex and multi-dimensional thing. There is a LOT of subtle self-obsessed crap even after your first awakening.

But also, realization is not just about becoming aware that you are nothing. It's also becoming aware that you are everything, and then realizing how God works through everything. So there are a lot of gems to be mined here.

Actualized.org is a full-spectrum teaching. We are not merely interested in realizing nothingness here. We are interested in all dimensions of life and how they intersect with that Nothingness. That Nothingness turns out to be identical to every domain of life.

How do you structure your life and society as a whole to align with your realization of Nothingness? How do you help elevate and awaken the whole world in an effective and non-pathological manner? These are the types of issues we're interested in here. We are interested in understanding what everything is and how everything interconnects. Which is a much broader scope than most spiritual teachings.

[cetus]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My spirituality is becoming more organic and natural

@Leo Gura Nice. Time to chop wood- carry water?

[NoSelfSelf]

@kieranperez yeah we can do it but one condition so we can make it even he runs on his knees ill run normally

 

[AlwaysBeNice]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

I mean becoming conscious of Truth/God.

'Becoming' 'of' 

Quote

 

Yes, and this is complex and multi-dimensional thing. There is a LOT of subtle self-obsessed crap even after your first awakening.

But also, realization is not just about becoming aware that you are nothing. It's also becoming aware that you are everything, and then realizing how God works through everything. So there are a lot of gems to be mined here.

 

But self-obsessed crap is just some functioning,, so you mean,, you can live in such away that's very free of 'mind problems',, okay, but that's not complex..

..

'Becoming aware' .. 'of' .. 'nothing' and 'everything'

..

'Realizing how' 'God'''''  'WORKS'' THROUGH

- 

Sorry I am being a bit facetious, but you see how silly this all sounds, this, working for 'insert dualistic concept'.. is the mind problem of becoming and gaining, sorry, you can't reinvent life, it's already done. 

[Forestluv]

45 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Serotoninluv Hes a good example of whats not a weakminded person he continue with his purpose even though everything was againts it he could of say well i cant do shit now...he found a way...so its not just his talent that made him great...

Of course, it was a combination of talent and training.

What if he worked equally as hard to become a world-class soccer player? How would that have turned out?

What we are saying is people have natural talents and natural non-talents. Hard work is part of reaching the pinnacle of one’s natural talents. LeBron James could have been an average nba basketball player just on amazing natural talent. To actualize that talent to its highest potential he had to work hard. Yet he was not going to become a world-class jockey regardless of how hard he worked. 

I don’t understand this part of the thread. . . It seems really straightforward that humans are naturally aligned to have certain abilities and not others. 

[electroBeam]

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

How do you structure your life and society as a whole to align with your realization of Nothingness? 

Hmm this sounds a lot like the life purpose statement that was generated by me after your LP course: "create smart cities that are centered around giving people divine experiences".

I read a book by Osho where he said that all revolutions have failed because society is an illusion. All there is, is man. I have no idea what he means, but it sounds legit. Is this true?

[Leo Gura]

33 minutes ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

'Becoming' 'of' 

But self-obsessed crap is just some functioning,, so you mean,, you can live in such away that's very free of 'mind problems',, okay, but that's not complex..

..

'Becoming aware' .. 'of' .. 'nothing' and 'everything'

..

'Realizing how' 'God'''''  'WORKS'' THROUGH

- 

Sorry I am being a bit facetious, but you see how silly this all sounds, this, working for 'insert dualistic concept'.. is the mind problem of becoming and gaining, sorry, you can't reinvent life, it's already done. 

You are being far too flippant and one-dimensional. What you're exhibiting here is an absolutist pathology of awakening. A form of Zen devilry.

Life is multiple-dimensional, infinite, and complex. There's way more to this work than you hold.

What is silly is that you think you've reached some kind of end.

Nothing is never done. Life is reinventing itself all the time, without end. Join the party.

[kieranperez]

24 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

LeBron James could have been an average nba basketball player just on amazing natural talent

Let’s go with this because LeBron is such a clear example. 

Let me make this clear. LeBron James was 235 pounds and 6’4” with around a 45 inch vertical leap at 14 years old. 

Bo Jackson was All-Star caliber NFL Football player AND MLB Baseball player and was an athletic freak of nature. 

Wilt Chamberlain was 7’1” and ran a 1:56 800m, high jumped 6’6”, and ran 49 seconds in the 400m... In converse all stars on a dirt track with no training in high school LOL. He was a man amongst children in the NBA and also could hold his own lifting with guys like Arnold Schwarzenegger. 

I use sports because sports it’s clear. It’s obvious. You can’t deny what you’re looking at and the reality of the results (although that still seems to be an issue apparently lol). Yeah those guys had to work hard but guess what, little Jimmy whose 5’5” ain’t going nowhere in basketball and ain’t going to the NBA no Tony Robbins or Ralston techniques are going to make that happen. Not will power. Not affirmations. Not law of attraction. You can get better. But that doesn’t mean little Jimmy is dunking on Shaq. Sorry lol that’s not happening. 

[Nahm]

1 hour ago, kieranperez said:

In the domain of talent, both are applicable.

 

From your direct experience, yes?

 

[Nahm]

@Serotoninluv What if he had just been honest? 

 

 

[kieranperez]

6 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Unfortunately, what often happens is that an inferiority complex may be projected onto little Jimmy. Little Jimmy’s father was 6-6 and an nba player, so it was very surprising and disappointing to have a son that was only 5-5. His parents had hoped for for a son that would be athletic. So Jimmy plays sports to get the approval of his parents and peers. Everyone tells little Jimmy he won’t be a nba basketball player because he’s too short. Little Jimmy wants to prove others wrong and show everyone he’s good enough and can conquer adversity. He uses Spud Webb as his inspiration. He works tirelessly to get a starting role on his High school team and then a backup role on a Div. III college. He struggles whether to continue playing basketball. If he gives up, he will be a failure and disappoint his parents. Yet on the other hand, he doesn’t even like playing basketball. He will later find out that playing basketball became an obsession to overcome an insecurity complex about his height and a programmed belief that the purpose of life was supposed to be about overcoming adversity. That’s too bad, because little Jimmy had unique natural abilities of integrating sounds with abstract creativity. He missed out on his true passion and could have become one of the world’s greatest jazz composers. Instead he lived a nonsense life of trying to prove his worth in something he had no natural talent and didn’t even like.

You literally described my path in athletics to what I’m discovering now lol.

I couldn’t have put it any better.

 

[ajasatya]

@kieranperez thank you. i'm gonna watch it later.

[kieranperez]

I do want to be clear on this though:

I do think advanced siddhis like levitation and other psychokinetic have been done in the past. I don’t think it’s an accident that that talent has floated around for thousands of years. I do think advanced level shit like that is doable... by (advanced) talented practitioners (who also probably put in thousands and thousands thousands and thousands of hours for probably decades). So I’m not dismissing radical abilities. I dismissig the fantasy of everybody can do it. Even with that, you’re not going to see any yogis levitating to Mars lol. Talent has limits and so does work capacity. 

A great question though to ask is - as mankind becomes more evolved (particularly with advancements with science, medicine, psychedelics, AI and other technology), will there be new evolved states of consciousness and new abilities that have yet to even occur say beyond samadhi and other types of altered states? 

Now that’s a deep question. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by kieranperez

[Leo Gura]

26 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

will there be new evolved states of consciousness and new abilities that have yet to even occur say beyond samadhi and other types of altered states?

Seems very likely.

For example, it should be possible to take two brains/minds and merge them into one superbrain/supermind, resulting is some freaky stuff.

Imagine a species in which every member's nervous system is interconnected with each other into a literal hive mind. That should produce some interesting new emergent stuff that cannot even be imagined.

The Absolute itself will never change. But the extent to which it understands itself, the extent to which is sees the interconnectedness of all form, should vary dramatically.

The formless does not get more complex, but the form does. And since form and formless are one, to be totally omniscient will require a full integration of all form across all time. Which no human being can do no matter how enlightened they get.

To put it another way, you do not fully understand what God is until you have experienced and integrated all form.

The paradox of awakening is that it is Absolute, but it is not total. There are infinite degrees of totality because form extends forever. So you can keep realizing more and more of yourself forever without end. And that's exactly what evolution is doing.

[ivory]

 

5 hours ago, kieranperez said:

To wrap this all up though as far as what makes this interesting is that this guy is very clear proof that this stuff DOES come easily to people.

My first spiritual teacher told me that he sat down and did some of the headless way exercises with his 10 year old son and the kid woke up to his true nature just like that. My teacher said he didn't expect anything to happen but it was just like, BAM!, and he got it.

 

One day I was sitting at a coffee shop talking to some random guy about spirituality and philosophy. He said that when he was in second grade, all of a sudden, he became aware of being aware. He realized his true nature. We talked about consciousness and no-self and other interesting things. I wasn't sure if this guy was the real deal or not but based on the things we talked about I have no reason to doubt him.

 

Maybe when you're ready you're just ready.

[kieranperez]

4 minutes ago, ivory said:

 

My first spiritual teacher told me that he sat down and did some of the headless way exercises with his 10 year old son and the kid woke up to his true nature just like that. My teacher said he didn't expect anything to happen but it was just like, BAM!, and he got it.

 

One day I was sitting at a coffee shop talking to some random guy about spirituality and philosophy. He said that when he was in second grade, all of a sudden, he became aware of being aware. He realized his true nature. We talked about consciousness and no-self and other interesting things. I wasn't sure if this guy was the real deal or not but based on the things we talked about I have no reason to doubt him.

 

Maybe when you're ready you're just ready.

Those experiences go to show that you can’t confine spiritual awakening into some rigid system. Realization comes when it comes. Nothing wrong with practice of course. Do the practice that works for you but yeah, that’s not uncommon. Imagine if they didn’t have a context for that experience... that’s why concepts can actually help as a background. 

[kieranperez]

35 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

The paradox of awakening is that it is Absolute, but it is not total. There are infinite degrees of totality because form extends forever. So you can keep realizing more and more of yourself forever without end. And that's exactly what evolution is doing.

”The any in the relative domain is infinite possibilities, and there always will be, and it’ll never stop. You can learn forever. You can create more distinctions. Why? That’s the nature of consciousness.”