Amazing BatGap Interview - Harri Aalto (Enlightened Since 4)

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, How to be wise said:

Plus, from (1), your points are true, but it’s just so rare to find relatives enlightened at the same time. 90% of those gifted teachers do not have enlightened relatives. Doesn’t that say something about the correlation between enlightened teachers having gifted genes.

From a genetics POV: this is not a simple single gene trait like cystic fibrosis in which 25% of siblings will inherit the condition. It is a complex trait in which many genes and environment plays a role. In these situations, we expect a low association between siblings sharing the trait, since there are many variables. It is more like schizophrenia. There are about 40 genes associated with schizophrenia and many environmental inputs - yet no one gene or environment event causes schizophrenia. Multiple inputs need to synergize for the manifestation of schizophrenia - for this reason, a person with a schizophrenic sibling is only mildly more at risk - even if they lived in the exact same environment.

Looking at whether two siblings both become enlightened is not very helpful in complex traits. Regarding family studies, what you would want to look at is whether identical twins tend to both become enlightened. If there was no association between identical twins and enlightenment - that would argue against a genetic component - yet the same argument cannot be made with regular siblings - that data is much weaker due to the extensive genetic differences between regular siblings

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, Nahm said:

In the sense that anyone (99%) could be enlightened, and if they are not, it’s because they don’t want to be.

That only pushes the question back one step.

The question is, why do most people not want to be?

Want, after all, is not a free thing. Your wants are determined by your genetics, environment, and other factors outside your control.

Why do some people want to eat people? Why do some people want to murder people?

[Nahm]

@Leo Gura I don’t know.  

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Why do some people want to eat people? Why do some people want to murder people?

One thing about psychedelics is they can take a mind-body into insanity zones. I’ve never wanted to eat or kill people while tripping, yet I’ve been to other insanity zones and that experience has given me a better understanding why people may want to do things that appear to be insane.

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

One thing about psychedelics is they can take a mind-body into insanity zones. I’ve never wanted to eat or kill people while tripping, yet I’ve been to other insanity zones and that experience has given me a better understanding why people may want to do things that appear to be insane.

Right, which shows you the connection between brain chemistry, mind state, and behavior.

What psychedelics reveal is just how many different kinds of states of consciousness there are. Not just a dozen, but millions of radically different states. Various people can be in those various states depending on their brain chemistry, genetics, etc. Some people are stuck in an insane state and that is their reality.

The fact is that some states are far more conducive to awakening and spiritual practice than other states. If your brain is in the right state, waking up is effortlessly easy. Other the other hand, if your brain in the wrong state, nothing you do will wake you up. State is absolutely critical for this work.

[Shadowraix]

On 4/19/2019 at 6:19 PM, NoSelfSelf said:

I get what you guys are saying but i still think its weakminded way to look at things

I think the important part is to look at the time and effort costs of things. Life is ever changing and 100 years of personal development results in more miniscule changes compared to thousands to millions of years of evolution. 

 

Yeah you can brute force but it is inevitable you will have to work harder if you aren't talented in that area. So you must strategically plan your life. Recognizing where you naturally excel in places is more about strategy than it is some can/can't statement. 

 

You'll be much better off if you can find a way to use your talents in what you want to do than start from scratch. It's like making a character applying points in a Stat only to not use it. Or getting a % increase in experience gained for a Stat to not use it to put it in video game terms. 

[Leo Gura]

Moral of the story, don't play the game of life as an orc mage or an elf tank

[electroBeam]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

The question is, why do most people not want to be?

Isn't that God's way of making sure form manifests the way his Will wants? His way of making sure the world is as perfect as possible? Like how a programmer programs a computer, god programs his creation through controlling our higher self Will?

[Angelite]

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

 

@Angelite “With God, all things are possible”  

Yes, but according to God's will. Not ours.

3 hours ago, Angelite said:

 

Needless of anything except God. Being crazily open minded.

 

^This is a paradox if you understand what I mean^

[Angelite]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That only pushes the question back one step.

The question is, why do most people not want to be?

Want, after all, is not a free thing. Your wants are determined by your genetics, environment, and other factors outside your control.

Why do some people want to eat people? Why do some people want to murder people?

That's why purification of the heart. 

Follow your heart. As it would be different for everyone. But equally just.

 

Follow your heart,

but, only when you have purified your heart from the lower self, then you'll be able to make correct judgement and see reality as what is.

Or else you're partial~

Partially enlightened~

Haha

 

 

 

#Reminder-to-self. 

 

 

[Nahm]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That only pushes the question back one step.

The question is, why do most people not want to be?

Want, after all, is not a free thing. Your wants are determined by your genetics, environment, and other factors outside your control.

Why do some people want to eat people? Why do some people want to murder people?

@Angelite At the same time though, is there really anything “wrong” with identifying as a “wanter”, and identifying other “wanters”? If One wants to believe in separate people, that these wanters are made of genes, etc, who cares? Let One “path”. It’s not like there is a choice between two. 

[Psychonaut]

Okay I'm in on one path. The only one.

[Mulky]

When he talked about not understanding what everyone was talking about, and then falling into this painful contraction that felt like hell.  I had this exact thing happen a few years ago, but it has stuck, I seriously need help with reversing this.  I had let go of the world but then I connected back with it in an attached kind of way.  Now feeling like if I let go that much again I will be a seriously irresponsible person and it will lead to problems.

[cetus]

On 4/19/2019 at 3:25 PM, kieranperez said:

This is extremely interesting because he talks about his realization being when he was at meditation retreat pursuing enlightenment in his early 20s (granted he was already in nondual consciousness) and that it wasn’t until that nondual consciousness subsided for 10-15 minutes in his sit and came back that he realized that he “had” what he was seeking his whole life

It's like the classic Wizard of Oz story.  Dorthy, Kansas and Oz merge into one reality.

[Angelite]

12 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Angelite At the same time though, is there really anything “wrong” with identifying as a “wanter”, and identifying other “wanters”? If One wants to believe in separate people, that these wanters are made of genes, etc, who cares? Let One “path”. It’s not like there is a choice between two. 

But there is a wisdom in every forms created

It's there for a reason.

[noselfnofun]

Is there anyway to test or thing to look out for to see if you are gifted spiritually? 

I think another reason why so few awaken is because so few are willing to really put in the work, I only know a very selected handful of people who do enough work to give them a chance at waking up. It would be interesting to see what would happen if everyone on the planet was made to spend all day meditating and doing different practices to see what the different results would be. 

[Nahm]

@Angelite What would you think is the reason? 

[Leo Gura]

9 hours ago, noselfnofun said:

Is there anyway to test or thing to look out for to see if you are gifted spiritually?

If you're asking that question, then you probably aren't, unless maybe you had a really dysfunctional childhood.

Generally speaking, spiritually gifted people will have one or more of the following:

• Find it very easy to meditate or concentrate
• Are extremely interested in metaphysical and spiritual topics (more so than other topics)
• Are naturally very loving
• Really interested in Truth for its own sake
• Have paranormal abilities: they see auras, angels, and others weird stuff, they have telepathic abilities, etc.
• Exceptionally intuitive
• They have spontaneous kundalini activation/awakenings
• Are wise beyond their years, wiser than all their peers

Not all of those need to be present. Just one or two of those is already great.

[Forestluv]

21 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

If you're asking that question, then you probably aren't, unless maybe you had a really dysfunctional childhood.

Do you think that some spiritually-gifted people are discouraged from developing their abilities and never reach their potential? Like a child that is artistically gifted, yet his parents condition him to pursue a career in medicine. Or a spiritually-gifted person conditioned to pursue a career in business or science.

I imagine a spiritually-gifted person that got pigeonholed into science. . . and his whole life he felt a deeper spiritual calling that he repressed. He goes on an Ayahuasca retreat and has an awakening "Oh my gosh, this is me. I may have spiritual/paranormal abilities".

Or do you think that the person would just know during their life that they had abilities and knew they weren't developing them?

In my own case, there were things people have noticed about me since I was a young adult and they would occasionally point it out to me. Yet I would dismiss it as being unscientific and woo woo. Yet now that I'm more open-minded, I think I'm realizing there may be a there there.

[Leo Gura]

33 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Do you think that some spiritually-gifted people are discouraged from developing their abilities and never reach their potential? Like a child that is artistically gifted, yet his parents condition him to pursue a career in medicine. Or a spiritually-gifted person conditioned to pursue a career in business or science.

Yes, this can happen, especially with a bad upbringing.

But even so, if a person is truly spiritually gifted they should have some sense of it, however faint and obscured it may be by bad social conditioning. These people should feel like "I am just different from other people." They may not know why yet or how, but they can intuit that they don't quite fit in with dumb society."