Amazing BatGap Interview - Harri Aalto (Enlightened Since 4)

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

Realization is akin to magic powers, witches and evolution now? 

It's said that after realization, you realize it was always already the case, so you we're enlightened at birth and after and now.

Illusion falls away, you don't gain anything.

This topic goes way beyond realization.

And what I'm saying is that there is no such thing as one "realization". That's an abstraction. In fact, each realization is unique, with a unique depth, breadth, level of embodiment, and corresponding state of consciousness.

And none of this contradicts Oneness or the Absolute.

You have to appreciate that realization does not happen in isolation. It is always intermixed with mind and brain. With one's state of development, with one's body, with one's energetic system, etc. The realization is happening through a unique human body and mind. So no two realizations are identical even though the Absolute is one.

The Absolute is always the case, but one's awareness and understanding of the Absolute varies a great deal. Case in point, a mule does not understand the Absolute even though the Absolute is there in the mule. A mule is not aware of God, even though it is God.

[kieranperez]

10 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@kieranperez you can change your muscle type if you didnt know...from fast twitch to slow twitch and vice versa

Human beings have all 3 types. Fast, slow, intermediate twitch fibers are not a quality but are different fibers altogether LOL. If you really want to debate this subject with someone whose studied athletic science and physiology since the age of 12 then by all means.

You don't say as your running "I'm going to work fast twitch fibers now". That's not how that works. 

I'm watering this down but if you're running slow for awhile (this is relative to one's fitness) eventually the slow twitch fibers eventually call upon other fibers for assistance. This is elementary but yeah, your understanding is downright false. 

The substance of what you are is Infinite Potential but I don't care how enlightened you are. If you have a missing foot you're not going to regrow that foot and beat me in a marathon. There are limits to what your character within this dream can do. Your denial of that is based on fantasy and imagination as it just dismisses what's the case right in front of you every single day. 

@Nahm prove me wrong. Go run under 2 hours in the marathon applying "faith". See how far that get's you. Don't worry... I'll wait. Genetics is a factor. You cannot deny for example that Kenyans, Ethiopians, and other East Africans have a flat out genetic disposition when it comes to middle/long distance running up to the marathon. Your denial of this is a fantasy and not based on your own direct experience. 

Edited April 19, 2019 by kieranperez

[Forestluv]

7 minutes ago, AlwaysBeNice said:

Realization is akin to magic powers, witches and evolution now? 

It's said that after realization, you realize it was always already the case, so you we're enlightened at birth and after and now.

Illusion falls away, you don't gain anything.

Not so fast grasshopper. . . 

Once the mind goes trans-egoic, lots of space opens up for new stuff to flourish. Yes, it’s still all a dream, yet the dream takes a new turn and becomes very interesting. 

When a mind is no longer spending 99% of it’s time obsessing over trivial crap - there is A LOT more space. Imagine going a full day without a single thought. Do you really think that will be a “normal” day?

[Nahm]

@kieranperez Are you talking about running, or enlightenment? 

[NoSelfSelf]

@Leo Gura thats what i meant you can change and why is there a limit to how much you can grow if they say you can even change your dna...

@Consilience why is there a threshold?

@kieranperez i dont want to argue with you give me source of what you are saying i read it wrong then

[Leo Gura]

4 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Leo Gura thats what i meant you can change and why is there a limit to how much you can grow if they say you can even change your dna...

When you change your DNA into that of a chimp, post us a selfie, and we will admit we were wrong.

Epigenetics is real and valid. But it does not mean you can change it without limits. The limits are very tight, as they must be, to ensure you don't kill yourself.

[Forestluv]

@NoSelfSelf Why pursue things that the mind-body is not suited for? I could probably be able to bench press 250!lbs, yet it would take years of dedicated work, I would likely undergo multiple injuries, need to take anabolic steroids and sacrifice most of my life. I know guys that can walk into a gym with zero training and bench press 250 lbs ten times without breaking a sweat. I’m not one of those guys, I’m much better suited for other things in life.

[kieranperez]

4 minutes ago, Nahm said:

@kieranperez Are you talking about running, or enlightenment? 

In the domain of talent, both are applicable.

A legitimitate autistic is not going to be a Ramana Maharishi level enlightened person because guess what? That capacity ain't there.

I'm not making the case that one cannot reach full liberation. I'm saying it's more honest to admit you don't know if they average person (not to make a blanket statement) can. Talent in the spiritual domain exists. We know this because guess what? Most people don't reach the end. People devote their whole lives to this and still get little nothing for it compared to the amount of depth that's there. Most people who practice hardcore don't get siddhis (deep) siddhis. That's not an accident. 

2 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Leo Gura thats what i meant you can change and why is there a limit to how much you can grow if they say you can even change your dna...

You can change them but that doesn't automatically mean there aren't limits to how much you can change them.

3 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@kieranperez i dont want to argue with you give me source of what you are saying i read it wrong then

Read and study anatomy. Don't ask me to prove anything to you. You're denying basic stuff and denying your own direct experience. I don't need to prove anything to you. You don't want to learn? Then that's your problem. Study stats of people who have enormously VO2 max capacities. Look at the numbers for those guys that have incredible lactate threshold capacities, testosterone levels, etc. 

You think you can match a 92 score VO2max through mere personal development, believing, and training? Go ahead. Be my guest lol

[Nahm]

2 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

That's not an accident

Agreed.

[Forestluv]

Epigenetics alters the expression levels of human genes. For example, epigenetic modifications may increase the expression level of a human cortisol gene. Epigenetics won’t change the underlying DNA gene sequence. Only the expression level of genes.

[kieranperez]

@Leo Gura have you found any reason to suggest that psychedelics can change brain chemistry and type over time? Whether it be through research or your own DE? 

Btw I've been checking out the YouTube channel "Breaking Convention" and man they got GREAT stuff. Particularly on this topic too! Thanks for that resource!

[Forestluv]

@kieranperez Recently, researchers have shown psychedelics stimulate neurite-genesis in cell culture. That would change the behavior of the nerves.  

Also, another group has looked at the decoupling of the DMN during a trip and it’s re-coupling after the trip is altered. Whether these alterations are “good” or “bad” likely has something to do with the person, contextualization of the trip and environment, integration etc. 

If someone is tripping in a jungle, gets lost and spends a week in terror trying to find their way home. . . that’s a lot different than someone tripping at home in a meditative environment and spending the next week integrating through meditation, contemplation and yoga. 

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

@Leo Gura have you found any reason to suggest that psychedelics can change brain chemistry and type over time? Whether it be through research or your own DE? 

I don't think they change brain type.

I think they can change how the brain is wired, which is very significant. Not sure about brain chemistry since there's no way I can measure that.

Subjectively it feels like the last 13 5-MeO trips have significantly changed how my brain works in a permanent way. It's subtle, but also significant. I am not the same person I was a few months ago. But also, I'm not totally different either. It seems pretty clear to me that if I do another 50 trips, I will be permanently changed after that. My consciousness will be much more expanded at the very least. Perhaps even a more radical change could result. I suspect that at some point the brain/mind will totally collapse and reconfigure itself to function at a much higher level. Permanent superhuman levels seem within reach but I have not verified it yet. It's going to take a lot of tripping and serious integration work. And won't be easy.

Quote

Btw I've been checking out the YouTube channel "Breaking Convention" and man they got GREAT stuff. Particularly on this topic too! Thanks for that resource!

Cool

[kieranperez]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I think they can change how the brain is wired, which is very significant. Not sure about brain chemistry since there's no way I can measure that.

Subjectively it feels like the last 13 5-MeO trips have significantly changed how my brain works in a permanent way. It's subtle, but also significant. I am not the same person I was a few months ago. But also, I'm not totally different either. It seems pretty clear to me that if I do another 50 trips, I will be permanently changed after that. My consciousness will be much more expanded at the very least. Perhaps even a more radical change could result.

Interesting

I wonder how a change like that over the last few months would extrapolate over the coming years.

Have you found that the results you've been getting thus far has been assisting in your progress in your Kriya, meditation, your concentration, and going into samadhi-like territory?

 

[NoSelfSelf]

I get what you guys are saying but i still think its weakminded way to look at things

Edited April 19, 2019 by NoSelfSelf

[kieranperez]

Just now, NoSelfSelf said:

I get what you guys are saying but i still think its weakninded way to look at things

It's what's true. Deny your direct experience as much as you want. Faith and all the personal development in the world doesn't make literally ANYTHING possible for you in this relative phenomenal plane. If you think you're going to change your genes and tap into some mythical potential that has you levitating in a lotus posture in outer space telepathically communicating to other celestial beings and able to breathe while in outer space... be my guest. I would love to be proven wrong on that. 

That's not "weak minded". That's rely on direct experience and not silly fantasy. 

[kieranperez]

@Leo Gura check this out (if you haven't seen it)

 

[Forestluv]

10 minutes ago, NoSelfSelf said:

I get what you guys are saying but i still think its weakminded way to look at things

Was it weak minded for Stephen Hawking to become one of the greatest physicists in history?

He could have dedicated his whole life to becoming a soccer player and would have been awful at it. Noone would have ever even heard of him.

How is pursuing his talents and not his disability weak-minded?

[NoSelfSelf]

10 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

It's what's true. Deny your direct experience as much as you want. Faith and all the personal development in the world doesn't make literally ANYTHING possible 

Thats what im saying thats so weakminded...personal development showed me that anything is possible and faith and belief is always a backbone

I changed so much that without seeing beyond my direct experience wouldnt be possible

Edited April 19, 2019 by NoSelfSelf

[Leo Gura]

20 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

Have you found that the results you've been getting thus far has been assisting in your progress in your Kriya, meditation, your concentration, and going into samadhi-like territory?

I have taken a break from yoga and even meditation lately.

My spirituality is becoming more organic and natural to the point where I am surrendering my rigid practices.

Remember that the ultimate goal is for your entire life to become one seamless act of meditation, creativity, and love. You become God-like.

Of course I still have a lot of work left. This is just a phase I'm going through, trying new stuff to see what works best.

Yes, my mind is gradually becoming more and more quiet, making it easier to be in a semi-meditative state all the time, or at least especially when sitting down.