Structure, routine and anxiety

[Commodent]

@studentofthegame Yeah, both of Pete Walker's books are very good reads. I think it's a good idea to start with Pete Walker's works, as Janina Fisher's book is heavier and more directed towards mental health care professionals (which I assume is no problem to you however ). One benefit of IFS is that it is a model that well suits self-therapy. So even if you were to spend some time finding a therapist you can still make great progress yourself in the meantime.

I've added "The Road Less Traveled" by Scott Peck to my reading list. Seems like a good book.

I think I could enjoy being a therapist, and that it in many ways would be a lot more meaningful than working with computers. The only problem is that in order to do so I would have to spend 6 years studying theories and practices that doesn't really resonate with me at all. It also sounds rather exhausting to listen to people's deepest troubles for several hours a day, although I know it must be quite rewarding to be able to help people on such a deep and personal level. However, I think I would much rather offer a platform from where people would be able to help themselves. By writing a book for example. I think my talent lies more in intellect rather than empathy, so I don't necessarily think I would be a good therapist although I have the ideas. I still have very much healing work to do.

I think that you, simply by doing the healing work you are doing, very well can become one of the best psychologists out there. It's quite rare, even among therapists, to do this kind of work. And from what I gather, most therapists are indeed quite split off from their wounds and inner experience. Which stunts their ability to help others.

I have always enjoyed planning far into the future. When I was 13 I decided I wanted to attend the study programme I'm currently attending, and I stuck to it and worked hard in order to get in. But for the last couple of months I've been having doubts whether this is something I actually want to work with. Although software development is fun it doesn't exactly feel like my life calling, if you know what I mean. I don't really know what else I would want to do yet, so I'm sticking with it until then. I have the feeling if I read more books and try different things it will with time become clearer to me what I want to do. Having said that, I'm leaning more and more towards the arts and other forms of self-expression. I'm thinking of choosing Visual Computing as a specialization, so maybe I can use those skills to create art somehow. How about you?

Edited April 30, 2019 by Commodent

[studentofthegame]

@Commodent thank you for the endorsement. I agree many healthcare professionals that I have come across, including psychologists I have met on my course, sometimes strike me as intellectuals first and foremost rather than as people who have undergone healing work themselves and are in a position to really empathise with someone else. My therapist has been through psychodynamic, attachment therapy herself and is still on her own path of healing. She is incredibly empathic.

The road less travelled is a lovely book. I haven't read it in full yet, I've got halfway a couple of times. I'm not sure why that is. I think a part of me is resistant to change. Maybe a part of me doesn't want to finish the book and end the discovery. But from the first half that I have read, i'd class it as a desert island book. I expect to read and re-read it several times throughout my life. 

I absolutely buzz off books. I feel energy coming off of books sat on a shelf, before I've even picked them up. I love walking around a book store, particularly around the psychology/philosophy/self-help sections. 

Alongside the road less travelled, i'd recommend 'man's search for meaning' by viktor frankl, if anyone has not already read that. He found meaning and purpose inside of Auschwitz. it doesn't come more inspiring than that.

[studentofthegame]

@Commodent I forgot to answer your other question.

goals for me is a good question. I have them in my head but never on paper. 

as it stands, career wise, I will pursue a job as an assistant psychologist when I graduate. further down the road I will look at clinical training, to practise as a clinical psychologist. we will then see where that takes me. I can imagine doing some counselling when I am a bit older and have more life experience. ultimately I want to write, but I don't know what form that will take yet. 

relationship wise I want to spend time with my family and create more happy memories. losing a parent is one of my ultimate fears and a big part of my therapy. I can see myself meeting a nice girl and starting a family, hopefully being the best parent I can be and providing the stable upbringing that I didn't have. 

personal goals include immersing myself into playing guitar, maximising health and fitness and playing football for as long as I can. I have fears of travel which need addressing.

You yourself are in a strong position of being very clued up about yourself and life while only being in your early twenties. You could comfortably spend the next 5-10 years experimenting with different ideas, taking in a range of experiences before settling into something for the long haul. And even once you do, with your skillset, I expect you'll take up something with fluidity, which will enable you the freedom to switch areas once you have taken everything you wanted from one role. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by studentofthegame

[Commodent]

@studentofthegame  Hmm, interesting. Maybe there's a part in the middle that is not that interesting to you, so you lose interest, and when you take it back up again you feel like you have to start over again? Hard to say. Usually when I find a book I really enjoy I will read just a little bit of it each day (usually before going to bed) to give all the insights time to sink in. When I find a book that is really not that interesting I will read it in big sessions and/or read until I've got the gist of it, just to get it over with.

I've added "Man's search for meaning" to my list. Finding meaning in that kind of environment must be quite hard, to say the least.

Books are indeed quite lovely. Currently I'm reading "Eastern Body, Western Mind" by Anodea Judith. It seems quite useful in understanding how trauma affects development and different parts of the body. I likely have a deficient root chakra due to early trauma (prior to 12 months), which has lead me to overfocus on the higher chakras (self-knowledge, self-reflection etc.). So to me healing would probably entail working downwards towards the ground, while to someone who is more grounded it might entail working upwards towards the higher chakras. Very interesting.

The strong fear of losing a parent sounds very much like to could be related to some sort of abandonment trauma, so good thing you're working with that. I have kinda the opposite problem. It sounds horrifying, but if one of my parents were to die I would probably feel rather indifferent. Maybe relief even. My mother is always suffering mentally, she's diagnosed with PTSD.

I have for the longest time craved having a girlfriend, more so than normal I think. I remember in 2nd grade in elementary school I would initiate contact with this girl I really liked, and it went really well until a couple of older guys started mocking me for it. So I have actually always been quite romantic at heart, but due to my shy nature I never really interact with lots of girls, or new people in general. I feel like it's getting a lot better though, and that I just have to attend more activities now in order to meet girls. How about you? Where do you foresee yourself meeting your future wife?

Thank you. Yeah, I certainly can't foresee myself sticking to one thing forever. I just sometimes wonder how I can transfer my computer skills to other more "soft" occupations. If I can somehow can use my computer skills to help people in a personal and meaningful way? Seems kinda far-fetched, to be honest.

[studentofthegame]

@Commodent i wouldn't say I found a section in the road less travelled boring and put it down. I think one of two things has happened, either I was not ready to read any further or the shadow part of myself that doesn't want to progress took over. I find that with many books. part of me still wants to live irresponsibly, go out all the time and drink. that's a part of me i'm working on giving up. that's not to say I will go teetotal or not have the odd night out. I just need a greater balance. moderation in all things. I think another concern of mine is that I could go too far the other way, not to say live like a monk but become what I still perceive as a boring, anti-social person. this is a misconception of mine. my work is to find moderation in everything, live a balanced life. 

Yes, man's search for meaning is a superb book. I would say that and the road less travelled I regard as my two highest-brow books for lack of a better term. i'm interested in reading the bigger spiritual texts, the Dhammapada, the tao te ching etc. at some point, but I don't think now is the time. As I keep banging on about, I need to do the healing works with the books we have discussed. That's an interesting point about chakras. I can imagine that will be something i'll look at in the future. i'm willing to look at anything and everything.

Sorry to hear that about your parents, I suppose it's not that uncommon to feel that way. I don't know how far along your healing work you are, but maybe a forgiveness component is for you, if you haven't already done some work on that.

I can relate to craving a girlfriend. I have had two or three serious relationships in my life. I have also been left devastated by a break up. often people are, but my reactions were very over the top. I think it ties in with the abandonment issues and fear of loss that I have. as I have got older I am much more able to handle the end of a relationship. I have been single since last summer, although I have been meeting up with an ex girlfriend. but I don't want to pursue that any further. There is a long story to it, but I have strong feelings for another ex-gf's best friend. I have had them since the moment I met her, about 6 months into my relationship. as you can imagine, the chances of being able to go out with her are slim. it's a complicated situation.

Meeting girls is so unpredictable. I don't believe there are 'hotspots' where you can find a meaningful relationship. I think if you are working on yourself, getting on with your life and importantly getting out and meeting people in different settings then the chances of meeting a girl are odds-on in your favour. I'm not keen on the idea of dating websites personally, although I know lots of people who have been successful with those sites and have now married. Yesterday I met a psychologist in a prison that I volunteer in. she's been in my head ever since. i'm thinking about asking her out next time I see her. I need to check myself because already I am feeling the yearning to be with her, and I need to get hold of that and deal with it. Again, I think my abandonment/loss issues make me needy initially, although I manage and mask it well, and it soon dissipates. I try to practise good boundaries in relationships. 

For me, I need certain things from a girl. intelligence and empathy are important. 

For yourself, what moves are you going to make to start increasing the odds of meeting a girl you click with?

[Commodent]

@studentofthegame  Yeah, change can be a difficult process. In my case I party very rarely. To some people who go partying all the time I am probably a very boring person, but then again I have good friends who are not preoccupied with that. And I doubt they consider me boring. Funny thing is, if people were to stop drinking society probably would have been way less boring than it is today, as people would have to do inner work in order to connect to their authentic selves instead of just doing it in short bursts through alcohol. I think those nights out drinking are largely what allows us to mantain an overly inhibited (boring) lifestyle. As you might know, us Scandinavians are quite inhibited, but we are also one of the heaviest drinkers (relevant comic). I don't think that's a coincidence. What I'm trying to say is that I guess it depends on the people you hang out with. I don't find people who live responsibly boring at all, and if you enjoy your life then it doesn't really matter wether you're a "boring person", imo.

I read a bit of Tao Te Ching, but I personally couldn't get through it for some reason. But Alan Watts has a lot of great stuff on Taoism which I found to be more digestible. "The Tao of Pooh" by Bejamin Hoff is also pretty good. I would like to learn more about Theravada Buddhism too sometime, maybe I'll check out the Dhammapada.

I've been processing a lot of blame, rage and guilt when it comes to my parents. Although I don't have as much buried emotions and am more able to relax around them, I still don't enjoy their presence as they will step over my boundaries whenever they can if I'm not watchful. I would have cut them off long time ago if it weren't for their clinginess, it could even be that I wouldn't have the urge to break contact if they were less clingy.

Ex-gf's best friend, that sounds like a surefire way to end up in some drama. But then again, I don't know how your ex-gf would handle it.

Those traits are certainly a big one for me too. I think it works the other way around too, that girls also want intelligence and empathy. Although I guess that maybe depends on where you live.

I study CS, and on my spare time I attend BJJ and go to chess club. So most of my time I mostly hang around males. I meet a couple of girls (who also have dogs) when I walk my dog, so maybe there are some chances there. I do however think there are better chances if I were go somewhere I could meet the same girls regularly. So I'm thinking of maybe joining a singing, dancing and/or meditation group. In addition to meeting more girls I think it could be fun too, hehe. Most people my age only use Tinder for online dating. It is however quite time consuming (as the odds are not in your favor if you're a guy) and way inferior to real-life interaction.

[studentofthegame]

@Commodent BJJ and chess club sounds interesting. I train in kickboxing, mainly for the fitness and for the gloves and padwork. I don't enjoy kicking. I've never learned to play chess but I can imagine I might at some point. Those groups you talked about also sound interesting and a sure-fire way of meeting new people (and hopefully some nice girls). I think pursuing lots of different avenues and interests is a really positive thing, especially when there is some fear and resistance to deal with. Geoff Thompsons books 'Fear: the friend of exceptional people' and 'Hunting the shadow' are good books to read on this. Geoff Thompson is a bit of a mentor of mine, I trained with him on one of his 6 month classes and have corresponded with him over the years, although he no longer has much online presence. I think it's important to understand his back story to get the most of his work. An ordinary guy, abused in his youth and with a lot of fear in his life. dealing with his fears eventually led him onto working as a nightclub bouncer in a violent city for 10 years. This I find inspiring as he was a soft-natured guy who was extremely afraid of confrontation and afraid of violence. after that, he learned some serious life lessons, transcended the need to marinate in violence, paid his penance and became a full-time martial artist travelling the globe, a writer, a teacher, and a scriptwriter. he has also got heavily into the big texts, he reads everything and his non-dogmatic interpretations are up on youtube in a series of over 100 podcasts/videos. A brilliant and congruent man and i'd advise anyone to take a look.

This week I am using an app called 'apnea trainer' which is used by deep sea divers to increase their lung capacity. I'm not interested in deep sea diving, but using it as a breathing practise for 5 minutes in the morning is very calming. And, i'm hoping, a gateway into meditation. I am also exploring the idea of attending a 12-step group for co-dependency. i'm wondering whether it would contribute to the healing work I am doing and help to deal with the attachment and loss issues I have. It feels daft to even think about doing 12-step but I am able to take what I need from things and leaving aside that which I don't.

 

[Commodent]

@studentofthegame Yeah, BJJ is very fun. It's very technical and is almost like "physical chess", as there are always a lot of options, some of which might work and some of which might not work. It's also very good for self-defense (I've been demolished by people who are way smaller than me), there's very low risk of injury since there's no kicking (which you might like) and no hitting. There's a lot focus on sparring which is quite fun, and the people there are also super nice and passionate about the sport. I've practiced Karate and Taekwondo for a couple of years, and BJJ is way less rigid and has a more of a light-hearted feel to it. I've also considered trying Capoeira, which is a mixture of martial arts and dance.

Geoff Thompson, I will check him out.

It sounds like you migh enjoy the Wim Hof method, which I have mentioned earlier. One of it's components is ice baths, but you also have the other component which is breathing (as demonstrated in this video). I think that could very well be accompanied by meditation. After doing the breathing for 30 breaths and then hold my breath I feel very still and acutely aware. I think he has an app too. How do you feel co-dependency manifests in your life? Yes, that 12 step group will probably be helpful in some way or another.

[studentofthegame]

@Commodent I'm not entirely clear on how co-dependency manifests itself for me, so a visit to a 12-step would be exploratory. I am much less co-dependent in my relationships now, certainly that was evident with my last GF. I strive for the intra-dependent relationship, two healthy individuals and one healthy couple. But I still feel the attachment and loss issues from childhood resurfacing at times. I have recently met a girl I like and for some reason my subconscious has been kicking off. I have allowed myself to obsess on it and haven't been able to get a grip of myself. It's been a real throwback to my insecure younger days and has caught me off guard. I never thought 12-step would be useful for me until I read Russel Brands book about using 12-step. If it compliments the healing work I am doing then it's got to be worthwhile, if not then at least I've had a look. I also think it would be useful to experience it first hand as a psychologist. I am at a point where I am keen to meet a nice girl, and have to get my house in order. 

 

 

[Commodent]

@studentofthegame Yes, I've noticed that some things seems to pull me back into old ways of thinking too. It can be very frustrating, to have made so much progress and then suddenly feel like you're back to square one. I think those are the moments where it is most important to actively recall those lessons you have learned. It can also be a great opportunity to grieve and process those emotions even more deeply, as such resurfacing brings awareness to things that have been buried.

I must say that this has been a most enjoyable conversation, and I appreciate your sincerety, insights and willingness to listen. I'm now entering a period of hectic exam preparation so my focus will be primarily there from now on. I do, however, hope that our contact does not end here. I wish you the best of luck in landing a job as assistant psychologist, and I think said psychologist will be very lucky to have you! Until then

[Surfingthewave]

@studentofthegame I can relate to you when you talk of your anxiety, I used to struggle to get out of bed in the morning due to crippling fear. The most effective thing which has helped has been meditation. Try just 10 mins a day, Leo has a good guided one on here about letting go. Seems like you could benefit from letting go of thoughts, by doing so this relinquishes any power these thoughts have and over time you'll begin to see the benefits. We can sometimes use rigid routines to control our anxiety or fear but this stops us experiencing from one of the greatest things in life, living in the moment and being spontaneous. Also exercise can really help with sleep this can also help with energy levels even when you haven't slept. Sounds like you are beginning to turn a corner, credit to you. 

[studentofthegame]

@Commodent Yes mate, it's been an insightful conversation and I've come away from it with a lot. Thank-you very much. I hope further down the road when I have done some serious healing work I can return the insights to yourself or anyone else on this board that needs them. Maybe we can swap notes on the journey to get the girl  Good luck with the exam preparation and i'm intrigued to see what path you take going forwards. Stay balanced man. All the best, James.

Edited May 10, 2019 by studentofthegame

[studentofthegame]

@Surfingthewave Thanks for those comments, you've well expressed a concern that I have.... that routine and structure may be necessary for good mental health, but not to the point of rigidity and not living in the moment. I haven't been able to begin a consistent meditation practise yet, but I have begun doing some breathing exercises on a daily basis which I find calming (and which I hope are a gateway to meditation for me) using an apnea training app used by deep sea divers. I am looking at increasing exercise frequency and am also gradually improving nutrition. I am also in therapy and using a lot of self-help books. So i'm coming at my issues from as many angles as possible.

Do you find meditation to be the key for you?

[Surfingthewave]

@studentofthegame Yes I think it has been key for me that it has been the one constant I have stuck to over the  years. I struggle a lot with motivation which could be linked to fear in some ways and I've found meditation has cut through all that. I also think its not one thing alone so like you so also use other things including yoga, walking in nature, contemplating, self help books nutrition and exercise. I recently had amazing results from reiki massages so I'll continue with that.