Structure, routine and anxiety

[studentofthegame]

@Commodent it's been an eye opening conversation in here and very inspirational. was there a tipping point in your life when you decided to make these changes? I know you noted you always had avoidant tendencies and some social anxiety. how far into your self development would you say you are?

[Commodent]

@studentofthegame  Glad to hear that.

The time I decided to get into self-development was probably when I was about 16-17, and it was followed by a couple of years of obsessing over the social anxiety and always trying to challenge it. Which, as previously stated, did not work very well. I also read a lot of spiritual books by Eckhart Tolle, Alan Watts etc. I learned a lot intellectually, but emotionally there was no development. It was indeed rather regressive, as I learned mindsets and techniques for shutting down my emotions. Denying my very self and everything thereunder.

Then I started reading into trauma recovery. Most people would not define what I experienced as "trauma" (in fact, most people's conception of trauma is extremely narrow. We all have trauma to some extent). After a while I got a good grasp of where my social anxiety, inner critic etc. stems from. They were, to put it briefly, feelings and mental habits rooted in unconscious memories stemming from my childhood. When I fully realized that what I was trying to solve about myself were really just that, memories, I stopped trying to fix myself and instead focused on treating myself kindly (inner child work) and staying grounded in the present. That was really the tipping point, that allowed me to lean back and enjoy life. Processing your past is a very comprehensive topic, so if you would like to know more I can recommend "The Tao of Fully Feeling" by Pete Walker and/or the videos of former therapist Daniel Mackler on YT (in which this video sums up his philosophy pretty well).

The development after that has been mostly due to the wish of living a more intentional and wholesome life (whereas previously it was to fix myself). I didn't feel like mindless technology use contributed with anything meaningful to my life, so I decided to cut it out. I'm eating variations of Leo's vegetable soup because it feels fresh and is good to both me and the environment. I've become aware of the importance of sleep, so I never sacrifice on it. Right now I'm also experimenting with the Wim Hof method in order to feel more in touch with my body. In general, I like learning, and I like applying that knowledge. I just finished reading "Why We Sleep" by Matthew Walker, and it's super interesting. So I don't feel like the self-development will ever end.

Having said that, social anxiety is not a problem to me anymore. It's been so long since I thought about it that it's almost like I have forgotten it. It really doesn't occur to me to get anxious around people anymore, at least not to disproportionate degrees. Plentiful solitude has probably helped with that also. One interesting thing about neuroplasticity, is that it happens regardless whether you're experiencing something physically or in your mind. E.g. someone repeatedly playing a sequence on a piano and someone visualizing it will experience the exact same brain changes. So you can quite litteraly think yourself into mental illness by overfocusing on it. The same goes for "forgetting" it. I'm still somewhat avoidant, but it's more of a choice because I notice how much more well-balanced I feel when listening to those emotional signals. However I know that I could push through if I'd like, so I don't really feel trapped by it.

This became a rather long post, so kudos if you could bear through

[studentofthegame]

@Commodent Thanks for those words and thoughts. This is exactly the type of conversation/content I signed up to this board for.

Processing the past / inner child work is currently one of the key things I am doing. I can fully identify with regarding events in your past as traumatic, while to others it may not sound like trauma at all. I have been in attachment/psychodynamic therapy for around 2.5 years, and I am also engaging with the book 'Homecoming' by John Bradshaw. The aim of the work of course is to process past traumas and 'reclaim' and re-parent the wounded inner child. I think I have a lot of work to do, and I am going to take a look at the resources you have suggested. I think it's a lifetime's work, but at the same time I believe there comes a point when you have to ease off picking at the scab where possible. I am interested in pursuing other forms of therapy in the future, likely some CBT and/or variations. I am also studying for a career in mental health so I will be exposed to this stuff on a daily basis. It has to become a way of life with me. At the same time I believe in balance in all things, and equally as important is my leisure time and pursuit of other goals.

As I have stated elsewhere, I have spent many years drawing up routines and schedules for my days/weeks and even months and years which I have not been able to stick to. What I started doing last month was breaking things down into the smallest components and starting from there with the aim of building healthy habits. I wanted to incorporate a healthy diet into my life. After failing at this many times, last month my task was simply to fill up a bottle of water in the morning. That was all. No expectation of anything else. No guilt trips, as long as I achieved this goal. I refill it 2-3 times a day depending on activity level. So my focus has been on proper hydration. I would say that is the very first step in a healthy diet. I am also looking at the areas in life where I am fearful and challenging those fears (see Geoff Thompson's 'fear pyramid' or Tim Ferriss's 'fear-setting' for more on this) and areas of addiction/darkness within my character. 

You have a very intelligent and grounded take on health and self-development. Do you have any intentions of working professionally in a related field?

[Commodent]

@studentofthegame  That sounds very similar to the work I have been doing. I have however never been to therapy other than a couple of sessions in low-treshold public mental health care, but I would like to try out psychomotor physiotherapy some day when I can afford it, and maybe EMDR. It's definitely a lifetime's work, but yeah I think it can be a good idea to ease back a little sometimes in order to digest things and preventing it from being all-consuming. Balance is indeed important. The fact that you have done inner child work does not surprise me by the way. You seem very sincere.

Yeah, change should definitely be implemented incrementally. If you try to do everything at once the ego backlash will simply be to strong to resist and you'll be back where you started. Challenging your fears is a great way to grow, particularly if it's preventing you from doing things you would enjoy. Just remember to do it in manageable amounts (which you already seem to be doing ). The resources you mentioned seems interesting. In my opinion, in order to attain a truly fulfilling life you have to become rather proficient at handling fear. It is not found on some carved path, but you create it yourself. What you want to be doing is not necessarily on society's agenda and in that case they won't encourage you and it definitely won't be risk-free. But it's truly amazing what you are capable of once you have fully set your intention. Just look at Elon Musk, or Gandhi. But it requires work and persistence, and with intention and enough time you will, through reflection and learning, figure out what to do. So I definitely think you are right in challenging your fears. It's a rare quality that's incredibly rewarding.

Thank you for the nice compliments. I am currently studying Computer Science, and while I enjoy software development I don't think I would find it fulfilling in the long run. It's more of a backup-plan. I certainly enjoy reflecting and talking about these things, but I don't think I would enjoy treating actual people lol. Maybe I could study neurosciece and do some research there, but that seems a bit too specialized as there are so many different diciplines I find interesting. Maybe I could become a writer of some sort? I am also learning to play guitar at the moment, and drawing. So maybe I could become an artist? Doing something creative definitely sounds nice. As you can see, I have lots of ideas, but haven't arrived at any conclusions yet. I'm planning on just experimenting with different things and see where it goes. I guess I'll figure it out.

[studentofthegame]

@Commodent I haven't heard of psychomotor physiotherapy. Sounds interesting. I am committed to inner child work but after 2 and a half years of doing it, I feel I am only scratching the surface. Unfortunately my therapist is scaling back on her private therapy to focus on her clinical day job so I have a feeling i'll be looking for another therapist soon. I also have an issue with one component of the work - forming an attachment with the therapist. I am able to feel feelings and process old traumas but from what I understand there should be some attachment as part of the therapeutic relationship and i'm not sure that's the case. I like her and respect her but I wonder if she's a bit too close to me in terms of age. I've always pictured therapy going better with a slightly older woman - a mother figure - which tells a story in itself doesn't it, considering the nature of the therapy.

Good luck with the computer science. You certainly could write on the evidence I've seen on here, whatever form that takes. Could also see someone with your understanding of these matters working in the field in some form or other. How old are you now? Twenties? 

I'm also learning guitar. I've been 'learning' guitar for 15 years now. As in half-arsed learning. One of my goals is to get serious with that.

[WaterfallMachine]

Trauma? Have you ever heard of Complex PTSD by some chance? It's a type of PTSD characterized in a way that it often has a more severe effect towards your life, often caused by childhood trauma -- considering that the brain of a child is more sensitive during that age. Visit the site traumahealed if you haven't already, and try to find some of those lists called "What to during a flashback" if you need help around this. 

I haven't been back in this forum for a bit. I think I left because I felt called to help somewhere else, and the majority of people answering my threads just had the habit of making extremely short answers or making fun of me, but I wasn't that assertive back then. Apparently some dick was spamming the forum and bullying everyone, but you see, I was blamed for reporting him. So now I'm back, see you around.

Edited April 23, 2019 by WaterfallMachine

[studentofthegame]

9 hours ago, WaterfallMachine said:

Trauma? Have you ever heard of Complex PTSD by some chance? It's a type of PTSD characterized in a way that it often has a more severe effect towards your life, often caused by childhood trauma -- considering that the brain of a child is more sensitive during that age. Visit the site traumahealed if you haven't already, and try to find some of those lists called "What to during a flashback" if you need help around this. 

Hi mate. No, I haven't heard of that. I will be sure to head over to the site and have a look. I am always intrigued by the idea of PTSD - clinically, there is a strict and rigid diagnostic formula, but for the purposes of self-help it could be useful. Cheers.

[Commodent]

@studentofthegame  Psychomotor physiotherapy was invented by a couple of Norwegians and is mostly just practiced in Scandinavia, so it doesn't surprise me that you haven't heard of it. It seems to be a quite holistic approach to therapy that recognizes the interconnectedness of mind and body.

I would recommend you to look into Internal Family Systems (IFS). It goes well along with inner child work, and is very useful as a form of self-therapy. "Healing the Fragmented Selves of Trauma Survivors" by Janina Fisher, which is packed with cutting-edge research, is heavily based on IFS. I think you can very well resolve attachment trauma by mantaining a positive relationship with yourself, where IFS could come in handy.

Thank you. The only problem is that I've been reading so much litterature in English I actually feel more comfortable writing in English rather than my mother tongue, which is Norwegian. So if I decide to start writing it will probably be more geared towards the international market. I'm 21.

15 years, not bad. Although it has been half-arsed you must have quite a good foundation.

And yeah, you should definitely look into Complex PTSD. It is quite different from "traditional" PTSD insofar that it recognizes the the many consequenses of prolonged trauma. The guy who wrote one of the books I mentioned, Pete Walker, actually has a lot of resources on C-PTSD. You could check his website for a quick overview.

[Gadasaa]

On 4/20/2019 at 4:21 AM, studentofthegame said:

@mandyjw white noise is a good idea, thank you. Yeah I agree starting small initially is the way to go. I'm currently working on making good habits and meditation is one of them... for me it has to start as small and manageable as possible until the habit sticks

 

@Gadasaa that sounds an interesting technique. it doesn't sound a million miles away from mindfulness and meditation, observing the mind wander back to anxious thoughts then exercising the muscle and refocusing on something else. Other than this technique have you considered therapy to deal with the underlying issues? 

I've tried therapy but i can tell you that most psychologist and therapists have no idea what you're going through. But if you want to try, you can go ahead and get some therapy but you'll soon realize these people have no idea about your condition. 

[studentofthegame]

3 hours ago, Gadasaa said:

I've tried therapy but i can tell you that most psychologist and therapists have no idea what you're going through. But if you want to try, you can go ahead and get some therapy but you'll soon realize these people have no idea about your condition. 

I would say my therapist has a fair idea what I have gone through / am going through because I am honest and we talk about it for hours and hours on end. 

Some modes of therapy deal with the 'here and now' such as CBT and don't need to have as full a picture of your past or what you have gone through. It deals with your faulty thinking and thought processes.

Overall I wouldn't necessarily champion therapy above all else, but it's a useful tool to have in the toolbox. If you don't click with one therapist, try another one. There are good and bad, like everything else in life.

[studentofthegame]

@Commodent Thanks for these recommendations. I will be looking at everything that has been suggested to me in the thread and will post an update as and when.

Norwegian! I am a Man Utd supporter, so we have one of your finest imports close to our hearts. Scandinavia is one of the places I would like to travel around at some point. Italy the other.

21, pretty young. I didn't start training in psychology at university until I was 31. You have plenty of time to plan and try different things. 

[Commodent]

@studentofthegame  Haha cool, pretty much all of Norway are United supporters at the moment. It's not every day a Norwegian gets to manage one of the biggest football clubs in the world. Where are you from? The UK?

Yeah, plenty of time. I've heard there are a lot of older people who get into the profession, which is a good thing IMO. It's a profession that requires great responsibility and shouldn't be pursued until one feels ready.

On 24.4.2019 at 9:08 AM, studentofthegame said:

Some modes of therapy deal with the 'here and now' such as CBT and don't need to have as full a picture of your past or what you have gone through. It deals with your faulty thinking and thought processes.

In my view this is skipping an important step, as gaining a full picture of your past and grieving your losses is a huge part of healing. Without a full life narrative you also won't have the understanding of how those faulty thinking processes arose (spoiler; they were taught behaviors), and without that I think CBT can very easily plant/strengthen the subconscious idea that one is inherently faulty and thus exacerbate feelings of shame. It's also much harder, downright impossible to elicit self-compassion without that understanding. In my view CBT is a very invalidating and emotionally neglective form of therapy. It only deals with the cognitive level and is really just scratching the surface. You can think like a saint and still be plagued emotionally due to unresolved trauma.

[Flatworld Crusades]

I have a quick morning routine.  Anxiety is all worry, irrational fear. So what I do is list all the types or subjects of anxiety that you have . You will find you will have some crazy almost phobia issues, put those to the side. All the others will be worry about financial issues, health issues, family etc. if you can create a spreadsheet with each anxiety topic on the vertical coloums.  Then systematically go through and "solve" the issue. for example your car registration is due soon and you are really worried that you won't have enough money & the outcome is you will be without a car. So you ignore the issue. An action is to call the transport authority today, find out when it's due & how much it will be. This leads you to your budget & you calculate what you need and do you need to get money elsewhere.  You see how these anxieties get hold off you from all angles. So just keep going through your anxieties and do a to do list. Then every morning check what you need to do today, and update and changes. 

Hope it helps

[studentofthegame]

@Commodent yes, i am in the UK and a United supporter. Ole is of course a hero at mufc and he’ll have the fans backing throughout his time. I just hope he is backed by the incompetent suits above him in the hierarchy.

I agree that healing should start, at least in my case, with grieving past losses. CBT may be useful for me one day but I think i still have a lot of work to do on the past. Walking before you can run. It seems i have been flagged and banned from a thread in which a high school aged lad was asking for help with his anxiety issues, and was receiving enlightenment related advice. Someone asked him ‘who is the I who is asking this question?’. I said forget all that and tell me about your friends, family, whether you have medical issues, whether you are practising proper nutrition, getting exercise, engaging with school work etc etc. I believe in walking before you can run and dealing with the fundamentals before you dive in to something so advanced, especially when you are at high school age. It seems someone took offence to that. While much of this enlightenment school of thought isn’t for me, i’m not out to be dismissive. But for a lad not yet in his twenties i thought some of the advice he was being offered was inappropriate and not for for purpose within the context of his life he had provided.

Anyway, side note over. I have had a bit of a chaotic few days, bad sleep and poor nutrition and i am feeling awful with anxiety. Today is a reset. It amazes me how quickly disruption to my routine and my daily work causes me anxiety, and the anxiety lasts several days.

I have noticed you and several others have referenced ‘being kind to yourself’ as a legitimate form of healing old wounds. I’m sure this differs from person to person, but what does being kind to yourself look like for you?

 

[studentofthegame]

@Flatworld Crusades thanks for dropping in. That sounds like a useful tool, especially done in the morning to ‘prime’. I’m experimenting with similar morning routines such as journaling, and i will give some thought to your method. Where it will be challenging is that much of my anxiety is irrational and sometimes without a label - i can’t always trace it back to something tangible like an approaching deadline or a financial worry. It ties in with the inner child work i am doing. 

[Flatworld Crusades]

2 hours ago, studentofthegame said:

@Flatworld Crusades thanks for dropping in. That sounds like a useful tool, especially done in the morning to ‘prime’. I’m experimenting with similar morning routines such as journaling, and i will give some thought to your method. Where it will be challenging is that much of my anxiety is irrational and sometimes without a label - i can’t always trace it back to something tangible like an approaching deadline or a financial worry. It ties in with the inner child work i am doing. 

Granted that not all anxiety has a has a practical resolution however I find that any easing of the symptoms, obviously, will reduce the overall suffering. It can be surprising the impact some of the smaller issues can have on your total anxiety suffering. Sometimes you get a "2 for 1". 

[studentofthegame]

@Flatworld Crusades i think you are right. The smaller issues that can be dealt with on paper can have a confounding, multiplying effect. In your own morning routine, do you find that the exercise alone serves as a primer for the day, putting to one side the actual solutions you write down?

[Flatworld Crusades]

the exercise itself is quite rewarding as you can see a path out of the fog. However resolving an issue, as an example like finding out that your registration is $200 less than what you thought & because you have 3 more weeks till it's due you can afford to make the payment strait out gives a sense of relief that lessens that particular issue more than you might expect. I have very little anxiety these days but if I feel a symptom I run through my list eliminating everything I'm on top of & it's very comforting to do. So yes, the exercise itself is quite useful 

[Commodent]

@studentofthegame I hope he gets proper backing too. It's been a strange couple of weeks. One day they were beating PSG 3-1 with an impoverished team, the next games they have been losing consistently. I wonder why that is.

Learning to walk before learning to run... very true. You will find that this forum is packed with people who believe nonduality to be some sort of magic pill to cure all their problems (spiritual bypassing). And they project those beliefs onto others, leading to wildly out of touch advice like "you are not your ego identity yada yada". They are trying to help others the same way they're trying to help themselves. With wishful thinking and dogma. I'm not saying there is no merit to these ideas, but preaching about nonduality as some sort of magic pill is dishonest, out of touch and in most cases, not at all helpful. Fun thing is, these "advanced" modes of thinking usually arise naturally once you start resolving those emotional issues holding you back (where good sleep, good nutrition etc. could come in handy). So actually dealing with the problem at hand would likely be more helpful if awakening is important to you.

I have noticed that myself too, that unwinding from stressors can take a surprisingly long time. I have noticed it can be greatly reduced however if I spend some time calming myself, but it's so easy to get distracted by other things. Like watching YouTube, and then "oh shit, I have to study" etc. That's actually a big motivation of mine for cutting out the smartphone. It promotes a distracted way of thinking and is not at all relaxing.

It very much is. I made a a quite lengthy post about integrating your past some time ago, where I talked some about self-compassion:

Quote

[...] With this in mind, the word "self-compassion" might make more sense. That is, you speak reassuringly to different parts of you with the compassion and patience you would to a small child, pet or a loved one. I can provide an example. I'm driving in the car and suddenly notice a part of me feeling very fearful that other drivers are judging my driving. My muscles tense up and I become hyperaware of how I'm holding the steering wheel etc. So I say to myself "this fear is just remnants of the past, it was true in your upbringing but right now people are probably not scrutinizing you heavily". And amazingly enough, after 1-2 minutes of doing this I can notice myself relaxing. Previously I would have been thrown into an endless spiral of me trying to figure out what the heck is wrong with me and how to fix it. (Did I mention how my mother for a large portion of my life tried to "fix" me?)

It might sound weird at first, but if you spend a couple of minutes thinking soothingly to yourself you will probably notice yourself relaxing. IFS is VERY relevant when it comes to this.

[studentofthegame]

@Commodent I have made a note of the book by Janine Fisher which you recommended earlier to have a look at IFS. 

I have just purchased the Tao of Fully Feeling which was another one you recommended. Alongside that, I have ordered Pete Walkers other book 'Complex PTSD'. I read the descriptions and some reviews and they sound very worthwhile. Thanks again for recommending this author.

These three books, plus 'Homecoming' by John Bradshaw which I'm beginning to work through, are going to form the basis of my own therapy for the foreseeable future. Feeling, processing, and grieving. I'm sure there is some tough but essential work ahead. My psychodynamic therapy resumes next month after the therapist took some time out. She is gradually reducing her private practise and I may be looking for another therapist in the coming months. 

From re-reading your posts, I feel I am somewhere between the phases you experienced - from reading a lot of self-help and spirituality, to putting that to one side and diving into trauma-related books. I have only somewhat scratched the surface of trauma healing, and my focus always shifts back to reading Tolle and various other works like that for a 'buzz'. There is a place for those books and I think they will have an impact on me over the years to come. I would recommend the works of M. Scott Peck to anyone. But for me, and we talked about walking before running, the important and immediate work is in the healing from trauma. 

As we have said, self-development and self-care are a lifetimes work. I don't believe we ever say 'job done' and shut the door on it. That can take the form of working in the field in some area. Once I graduate in august I will be applying for jobs as an assistant psychologist. I think you, yourself, would make a phenomenal professional within the field somewhere, based on the conversations we have had and the maturity of your insights. But of course, those are fully transferable skills. You can apply those to anywhere you choose to turn your hand. 

I think you are right about enlightenment/self actualisation being a natural occurrence to some degree of doing the important work, and is by no means a 'magic pill'. I respect peoples rights to use this forum as they see fit, but what I read in that thread (and also what I didn't read) was alarming.

Anyway, this has been a heavy post for a Monday morning. On a lighter note, what does the next 1-5 years look like for you in terms of life and goals? are you a planner or do you plan in pencil and go with the flow?