The Occult/Energy Work/Magick

[Matt8800]

@electroBeam The most prominent figure in Kriya yoga, Lahiri Mahasaya said "Solve all your problems through meditation. Exchange unprofitable religious speculations for actual God-contact. Clear your mind of dogmatic theological debris; let in the fresh, healing waters of direct perception. Attune yourself to the active inner Guidance; the Divine Voice has the answer to every dilemma of life. Through man's ingenuity for getting himself into trouble appears to be endless, the Infinite Succor is no less resourceful."

While it may be your opinion that meditation is not needed, that is not the opinion of enlightened masters. The first and most important purification practice is deconstructing the ego mechanism through meditation according to enlightened masters. If you can provide a quote from any enlightened master that says meditation isnt important, I would be completely shocked.

The occult can be dangerous if not done properly. As a safety precaution, if one doesnt want to pursue occult knowledge the way that it is recommended, they should not risk it. People have rushed forward to obtain powers in improper ways and have gone insane, become diseased, financial ruin, etc.

If you want to do things your own way, by all means do it but I would suggest not touching the occult.

Here is an article about some of the dangers of the occult without proper purification practices and willingness to follow instructions.

https://www.theosophical.org/publications/42-publications/quest-magazine/1251-the-dangers-of-occultism

"The first step on the way to Initiation is purification of the heart and mind, because the light of Divine Wisdom cannot manifest itself in a place clouded with impure thoughts and filled with selfish desires. No one has ever made the second step without making the first one, and all efforts to drag the high into the service of the low lead only to degradation, misfortune and evil. Therefore the real practice of occultism consists in the control of one's lower thoughts and emotions, which can be done only by the aid of one's own higher nature; because only the higher has power over the lower; "self" cannot overcome "itself," and for this purpose it is necessary to acquire that discernment between the eternal and true, and that which is temporal and illusive, of which we spoke in the beginning of this article."

[Nahm]

@Matt8800 The juice of this thread gets sweeter by the minute. God bless. ??

[electroBeam]

@Matt8800 Yes but he is not talking about self inquiry, Zen, etc. He is clearly talking about kriya yoga(I specifically differentiated yoga from meditation in my previous post. Yoga is energy work, Meditation is mind work. Clearly Lahiri is using meditation and yoga interchangeably, in the context of this post he means yoga). 

I'm not going to post videos for the sake of refraining from gossiping, but every Kriya master (Osho especially) values Kriya yoga over meditation. They have realized, as I did, that meditation is ineffective because you cannot control your thoughts, and hence controlling your mind is silly. Kriya yoga(Lahiri confusingly uses the word meditation) on the other hand teaches you to control prana instead. This is a much better approach because you aren't trying to control something you cannot control anyway.

 

I understand you probably had a lot of success with meditation, so now you think it's the one and only technique to use, but bear in mind there are advanced masters who disagree with you(Lahiri for example) who think meditation is stupid while yoga is supreme. Of course there are people on the other side(buddhist) who think yogis are full of shit and don't know anything about consciousness. They are of course wrong.

[Matt8800]

@electroBeam Unless you are able to provide links to quotations from those enlightened masters, we will have to agree to disagree.

Your assertion that one cannot control their thoughts is false. I can clear my mind at will from all thoughts and keep it empty with full awareness as long as I want. This is called "no-mind". It is not possible to achieve this without a lot of meditation. When one can achieve this state, that is when energy work becomes very powerful.

Someone who does not meditate may say this state is not possible but it is a well known state with meditation masters, yogis and llamas.

Do what you will but to ensure my karma is clear, I am advising you to stay away from the occult. It should be done a specific way for specific reasons or it can be dangerous.

I wish you well.

Edited April 21, 2019 by Matt8800

[Nahm]

Yep. 

[electroBeam]

17 hours ago, Matt8800 said:

@electroBeam Unless you are able to provide links to quotations from those enlightened masters, we will have to agree to disagree.

 

https://isha.sadhguru.org/au/en/wisdom/article/kriya-yoga

"With the path of kriya you are not only seeking realization, you also want to know the mechanics of life-making" how inspiring!

 

 

[Esoteric]

My dad is stronger than your dad

[Matt8800]

3 hours ago, electroBeam said:

 

https://isha.sadhguru.org/au/en/wisdom/article/kriya-yoga

"With the path of kriya you are not only seeking realization, you also want to know the mechanics of life-making" how inspiring!

 

 

@electroBeam He is not saying that meditation is not important. This is a yogi saying that a specific yogic technique is "more advanced" than a specific buddhist technique. Im familiar with Sadhguru and here are two phrases he would never say:

1. I dont know the answer to that question (I dont believe someone knows everything simply because they are enlightened)

2. A Buddhist technique is better in some ways for some reasons than a yogic technique.

Sadhguru also mentions in many places that meditation is critical - https://www.google.com/search?q=sadhguru+importance+of+meditation&ei=8sS9XJn8K4rr-wT81aPADw&start=0&sa=N&ved=0ahUKEwiZvcKz6uPhAhWK9Z4KHfzqCPg4ChDy0wMIcg&biw=1920&bih=937

I think you have already made up your mind but If you really want to know if meditation is important in kriya yoga, see https://www.google.com/search?q=kriya+yoga+imortance+of+meditation&oq=kriya+yoga+imortance+of+meditation&aqs=chrome..69i57.9623j1j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Saying you dont need meditation because you do yoga is like saying you dont need to brush your teeth because you wash your hands.

 

 

[John Iverson]

On 4/19/2019 at 10:12 AM, Matt8800 said:

Ive seen a lot of questions lately regarding magick. I have been studying the occult/magick for the last 6 months and this is what I have found:

After studying Buddhism and Yoga very intensely for several years, my "inner guru" led me to realize that my next step of spiritual evolution was going to involve energy work. Yoga has very powerful energy work (magic) but one is not going to learn very much unless they follow a guru. If you do follow a guru, you may find out many years later that energy work is not his strength and learn very little. Taoism is very powerful magic but is still somewhat limited in its uses and difficult for a westerner to fully grasp and master.

The occult is energy work on steroids. I dont think any traditions can touch it in that arena. A lot of people would disagree but that is simply because there is a weird bias in the west that true spirituality can only be found in the east. 

The philosophy is a bit different than Buddhism or Yoga. Rather than claiming the physical world is "unspiritual" and that one should just dissolve the self and wait for death/liberation, Occultists believe that the physical world is created by the divine and should be mastered and engaged in like all the other realms in a process of eternal spiritual evolution. They believe one must dissolve the ego identification by seeing through the mechanism of the ego. They use the ego as a tool, created by the divine, for  divine purposes. They believe in observing the mechanism of the ego through meditation and disassociating from the aspects that are animalistic or of lower vibration. Once one has fully broken their identification with the ego, they can discover their True Will of their higher Self/soul. The True Will is generally associated with looking outward to how you can serve other beings for their greater good. High Magic is employed for the purpose of achieving ones True Will and spiritual purification/evolution. 

Energy work in all the traditions I have studied (Taoism, Yoga, Buddism, Kabbalah) involve intense visualization, breathwork, rituals, concentration and certain physical movements. The occult has pretty much of what they all have but a lot more imo.

Magick/the occult incorporates a lot of Kabbalah/Jewish mysticism into its ultimate view of God/reality. There is also a lot of philosophy that is incorporated from hermeticism, which is an amalgam of greek, egyptian and pagan mysticism. 

I would highly suggest just sticking to High Magick, which is for the purpose to become one with the divine. I also do some rituals for health and prosperity because both can be used to help meet my spiritual goals. Despite what many say, there is nothing spiritual about weakness, poverty and sickness. With that said, be VERY careful with using the occult for prosperity. That can very easily solidify and inflate the ego. Keep your intentions based in love and that will guide you. Stay vigilant about not feeding the ego's animal selfish side by carefully observing the present moment.

Personally, I have combined what I have learned from Buddhism, Yoga and the Occult. For me, it is a complete spiritual practice. I also incorporate a lot of psychedelics into mediation and magic, which is very powerful.

If you want your have the experience of seeing your chakras light up like a christmas tree, magick is definately a way to do it. It didnt take me long to being able to have powerful experiences of moving energy around me and through me. I Iearned quickly how to identify "bad" energy and replace with "good" energy and all its many possible uses. (me meditating 1-1.5 hours a day for the last 3 years was a factor). You can also envoke the powers of archangels for various reasons.

My significant other doubted whether magic was real. We did a ritual to summon an arch angel and the angel appeared. Im not going to go into too much detail about what happened but it was an extremely powerful and beautiful experience. Lets just say my significant other is now totally on board with magick. 

Magick is a tool. It can be used for "good" or "bad". Whatever you use it for, it amplifies greatly. 

 

What do you recommend to buy about practicing occult?

the one i could learn and will tap my own unique capabilities or experiences if there is that is my first priority 

but

what should i buy 

between 

High Magick written by Damien Echols or Initiation into Hermetics?? Between the two which is better?

or have you discovered new and better resources? Just give me .. and please check my post i have a post i need your help

post about extraordinary list

Edited November 2, 2019 by John Iverson

[Matt8800]

9 hours ago, John Iverson said:

What do you recommend to buy about practicing occult?

the one i could learn and will tap my own unique capabilities or experiences if there is that is my first priority 

but

what should i buy 

between 

High Magick written by Damien Echols or Initiation into Hermetics?? Between the two which is better?

or have you discovered new and better resources? Just give me .. and please check my post i have a post i need your help

post about extraordinary list

@John Iverson There are two areas of study in the occult: occult abilities to affect the "objective" world and occult methods and general philosophy regarding enlightenment in the Occult tradition. 

To learn how to develop abilities, I would suggest starting with Jason Miller's Strategic Sorcery and Aiden Wachter's Six Ways. As a tip, I have received a lot of direct help and communication from spirits that I have developed very positive relationships with utilizing daily, simple offerings. 

Regarding enlightenment, it is a non-dual tradition that teaches one must master the ego but then can use the ego as a tool to enjoy and master the physical realm (similar to Tantra). The essence of the True Self (Atman) evolves eternally, in many realms. 

I have had many crazy, beautiful and mind-blowing occult experiences

Edited November 2, 2019 by Matt8800

[John Iverson]

57 minutes ago, Matt8800 said:

@John Iverson There are two areas of study in the occult: occult abilities to affect the "objective" world and occult methods and general philosophy regarding enlightenment in the Occult tradition. 

To learn how to develop abilities, I would suggest starting with Jason Miller's Strategic Sorcery and Aiden Wachter's Six Ways. As a tip, I have received a lot of direct help and communication from spirits that I have developed very positive relationships with utilizing daily, simple offerings. 

Regarding enlightenment, it is a non-dual tradition that teaches one must master the ego but then can use the ego as a tool to enjoy and master the physical realm (similar to Tantra). The essence of the True Self (Atman) evolves eternally, in many realms. 

I have had many crazy, beautiful and mind-blowing occult experiences

Share your crazy beautiful things and mindblown about occult in my post i need that.. i want to create a list, that someday i will overwhelm people from all extraordinary things that is really happening and how they really exist and how they fit to the larger picture in the universe, please help me

[Matt8800]

5 hours ago, John Iverson said:

Share your crazy beautiful things and mindblown about occult in my post i need that.. i want to create a list, that someday i will overwhelm people from all extraordinary things that is really happening and how they really exist and how they fit to the larger picture in the universe, please help me

@John Iverson There are somethings that are too crazy (itll just make me sound nuts) or too personal to share.

I can share one recent thing that happened though:

Ive had sleeping issues at night and energy issues during the day for as long as I can remember. Ive tried everything over the years but thought I would try a different approach. I gave some offerings to healing spirits, called them in and asked them to disclose to me what my problem was so that I could try to fix it. Im not able to see and hear spirits much but my significant other is a very gifted clairvoyant. When I ask spirits questions, I tell them that if I cant hear them, to go tell my significant other and she will tell me. I dont tell her that a message might be coming her way because I dont want to prompt her. She was totally unaware that I had contacted the healing spirits.
The next day, I simply mentioned that I need to figure out my sleeping issues. She suddenly said that she was receiving a message that there was a problem with my hypothalamus and that I needed to research it. When I looked it up, I found that it is a part of the brain that is responsible for telling our bodies to sleep at night and produce energy during the day.
I found that Western medicine is ineffective with treating hypothalamic dysfunction but there is strong evidence that traditional Chinese medicine is extremely effective. I started going to the Chinese doctor this week and am very optimistic about it.

[John Iverson]

5 hours ago, Matt8800 said:

John Iverson There are somethings that are too crazy (itll just make me sound nuts) or too personal to share.

I got someone like you, i am the right person that has super radical open mindedness to become overwhelm from the crazy to too craziest thing that is happening.. i love listening and discover type of things.. that's why it is my life purpose.. i got you someone like you that someday it will be part of each one of us and it will become normal , as normal as atom, gravity, Einstein's general relativity, as normal as cars, airplaines, and all of the mindblown abilities or mindblown stuffs you can do here could make you a profit and be able to express in the society normally and functional.. that's one of my dreams... so go ahead tell me more about it.. the important thing is that the list i am going to create it starts with that.. it's my 1 year goal to have a list, read my post so you can understand what's inside the list

 

the one you shared to me right now it amazed meeee ? So what more other stuff you didn't share it yet 

[Matt8800]

15 hours ago, John Iverson said:

I got someone like you, i am the right person that has super radical open mindedness to become overwhelm from the crazy to too craziest thing that is happening.. i love listening and discover type of things.. that's why it is my life purpose.. i got you someone like you that someday it will be part of each one of us and it will become normal , as normal as atom, gravity, Einstein's general relativity, as normal as cars, airplaines, and all of the mindblown abilities or mindblown stuffs you can do here could make you a profit and be able to express in the society normally and functional.. that's one of my dreams... so go ahead tell me more about it.. the important thing is that the list i am going to create it starts with that.. it's my 1 year goal to have a list, read my post so you can understand what's inside the list

 

the one you shared to me right now it amazed meeee ? So what more other stuff you didn't share it yet 

@John Iverson The strangest thing that has happened, that I would share on this forum, is my experience with Hecate, the goddess of witchcraft. I tell the story on my "ask an occultist" thread. I cant share any more about that than what is already written but if you want a crazy story, I would look up that thread.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Matt8800

[Crystalous]

There is a lot of darkness and deception on the occult path

[electroBeam]

I'm currently learning magick now as my currently practices aren't doing it for me.

Would be curious to know if anyone else gets beyond self realisation with magick. Based on the reports I've read, magick just seems to produce convenient hallucinations.

[Verdesbird]

9 minutes ago, electroBeam said:

I'm currently learning magick now as my currently practices aren't doing it for me.

Would be curious to know if anyone else gets beyond self realisation with magick. Based on the reports I've read, magick just seems to produce convenient hallucinations.

magick produce real life solid results 


just see the 'get-your-girlfriend-back' black magick.... it really works that the girl get back to you 


 

[Crystalous]

6 hours ago, Verdesbird said:

magick produce real life solid results 


just see the 'get-your-girlfriend-back' black magick.... it really works that the girl get back to you 


 

the force of love gets back to you in triple power too.Be careful with magic everything comes back to you 3 times stronger

[Verdesbird]

10 hours ago, Crystalous said:

the force of love gets back to you in triple power too.Be careful with magic everything comes back to you 3 times stronger

yeah ive heard about it

[Dumuzzi]

@Matt8800 Excellent thread, as always.

I noticed two main themes have come up on this thread, the importance of the Kabbalistic tree of Life and the differences between the Left, Right and Middle paths.

A few thoughts I would like to throw out there, some based on research and some ideas that came to me intuitively or at the suggestion of certain celestial beings I'm in contact with. 

- The tree of Life is a universal and appears in most cultures (including my own, that of Hungary). Its most ancient form is likely the Sumerian version. There is an excellent depiction (relief) in the British Museum, which was excavated from Inanna's holy city, Uruk. It shows a king being anointed with the water of life by a god (most likely Enki), holding a pinecone and sprinkling the water of life unto the king, symbolising the pineal gland and the Soma/Ambrosia/DMT excreted by it upon illumination. The tree of life is in the centre, on either side stands the king and behind him, anointing the king is the winged god Enki. Above the tree of life is Utu, the Sun god and Inanna's brother, travelling on a winged disc. I spent a long time meditating on and trying to figure out the meaning of this stone relief, and I think I managed to at least partially understand the symbolism behind it.

https://research.britishmuseum.org/collectionimages/AN00150/AN00150814_001_l.jpg

The tree of life is symbolic of the human body's energetic system, with the various knots representing various chakras. The Kabbalistic tree of life is likely a simplified version of the Sumerian original and of course it plays a key role in Genesis. Enki standing on either side of it symbolises the importance of balance between the Left and Right-hand paths, the synthesis of the thesis and antithesis of either. It is clearly shown that illumination, or in other words, the lighting up of the pineal gland to give the seeker divine wisdom and power is as a result of divine Grace, a gift of the gods, so to speak. Above the tree of life, Utu represents the light and heat of illumination as well as the soaring of the spirit and the reaching of heaven, realm of the gods. As you may know, in Sumerian mythology, the Queen of Heaven is Utu's sister, Inanna, whilst their father Enki, is King of the Abzu, of the waters below. Sumerians believed in an extensive and wondrous watery underworld that existed deep below the surface of the earth, which is why Enki is the one sprinkling the water of life on the adept and was worshipped as the god of illumination by the ancients.

The three paths towards illumination, right, centre and left are actually meant to be taken quite literally, they aren't just metaphors. They literally appear on that part of the body after which they are named, though they spiral around the centre (the spine) and switch sides frequently. The Left hand path is responsible for the right hemisphere of the brain and vice versa. In Yoga, these three paths are known as Ida, Sushumna and Pingala.

Ida is Left-handed, lunar, feminine, cool, moist, and associated with everything that we generally associate with the "Left", including politics.

Pingala is Right-handed, solar, masculine, hot, dry and associated with everything that we generally associate with the "Right", including politics.

Sushumna is the synthesis of these two forces and balanced illumination can only be achieved by integrating the two. For instance, Gopi Krishna, being a man, was strongly masculine and Right-handed in his makeup, which left him suffering greatly from the effects of the Kundalini power arising in his solar nerve, leading to episodes of extreme heat all over his body. Eventually, he learnt to balance his feminine side and the power than rose up in his central channel, the Sushumna. 

Maybe my characterisations and associations are a bit far-fetched and laboured, but based on my own research, they make sense.

Thanks and keep up the good work.