No-self to God-Self

[Ananta]

 

On 5/13/2019 at 11:27 AM, Preetom said:

"Fear of the lord is the beginning of knowledge"

Actually this is a very important instruction for any serious spiritual journey to begin.

Hi,

How so? This has not been my experience. What I find fearful is the thought that I am a finite, individual, volitional entity.

Knowing it's Isvara/God that is in charge of all of manifestation, including the "apparent" person is comforting, I think.

On 5/13/2019 at 11:27 AM, Preetom said:

renounce your busy, stupid, anxious life to God

Haha ?

On 5/13/2019 at 11:27 AM, Preetom said:

The fear of God is the fear that consumes all other fears and thus liberates a soul from all fears and anxieties.

Perhaps I just don't understand this?

[Preetom]

@Anna1

The whole theme of any serious spiritual teaching is this: ignore the conventional, material world that everyone is used to and in turn focus more and more on the metaphysical realm. Any serious spiritual teaching can be fit into this description.

Imagine if a devotee renouned all her 'worldly' fears. She only fears God or more accurately takes God seriously. 

What do we fear most in our lives? The fear of losing the things we are most invested and attached to. Those are the things which take up most of our concerns. Devotional teachings instructs to surrender that burden on God and only remain faithful to God.

I know, superficially the term fear of God sounds weird. But thats where the paradox lies. Its a fear that can consume all other fears.

Just like self inquiry sounds and seems like the most selfish position one could take-ignore everything and only focus on your self keenly. And yet thats how the self gets transended once and for all.

On the other hand, if one ignores the ego self and keeps attending to other things, that ego will always remain intact and fatten.

Similarly, devotionally speaking, if a seeker doesn't fear God that doesn't mean he stops having fear. No! He actually starts having the most petty, selfish, irrational fears due to his material attachments.

And the bit you talked about being infinite, free etc-those are the fruits/byproduct of the work. Enlightenment or total surrender whatever you call it

Edited May 14, 2019 by Preetom

[abrakamowse]

39 minutes ago, Shin said:

It is called indoctrination,

Make your peace with it,

It is how it is.

I'll do that 

@Anna1  @Preetom

The first time I saw the "void" I was so scared that the word fear doesn't describe well what I felt. I was not prepared at all...

Now I want to experience that again, and be calm and quiet... I know there's bliss after that.

 

[Shin]

8 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

I'll do that 

@Anna1  @Preetom

The first time I saw the "void" I was so scared that the word fear doesn't describe well what I felt. I was not prepared at all...

Now I want to experience that again, and be calm and quiet... I know there's bliss after that.

 

[abrakamowse]

@Shin

 

[Ananta]

37 minutes ago, Preetom said:

The whole theme of any serious spiritual teaching is this: ignore the conventional, material world that everyone is used to and in turn focus more and more on the metaphysical realm. Any serious spiritual teaching can be fit into this description.

I think you need to see it as unreal, an illusion, yes. Yet, it exists, even if the existence is only "apparent" and occurring only here and now.

37 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Imagine if a devotee renouned all her 'worldly' fears. She only fears God or more accurately takes God seriously

Okay, I'll choose takes God seriously. Fear isn't in my vocabulary along with spirituality. 

37 minutes ago, Preetom said:

What do we fear most in our lives? The fear of losing the things we are most invested and attached to. Those are the things which take up most of our concerns

Yes, see, this is where I was going when I said fear of being an independent, individual "real" entity... I meant and all its "problems". The belief in all that is some scary shit.

37 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Devotional teachings instructs to surrender that burden on God and only remain faithful to God.

Yes, okay, I see what your referring to, I just don't use the same terms. Like I would never say "remain faithful to God", because ultimately I'm awareness and that is primary/fundamental, but to each their own.

39 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Just like self inquiry sounds and seems like the most selfish position one could take-

Yes, I understand Self-inquiry. What some may not understand is that the Self (capital S) is awareness/Brahman and that is the fundamental reality, therefore one's true Self.

44 minutes ago, Preetom said:

Similarly, devotionally speaking, if a seeker doesn't fear God that doesn't mean he stops having fear. No! He actually starts having the most petty, selfish, irrational fears due to his material attachments

I can't say I'm on board with this. I don't get the fear thing, but I respect it's your point of view. Can I ask what tradition has taught you this? If it's too personal, no problem. Just was curious.

[Ananta]

47 minutes ago, abrakamowse said:

The first time I saw the "void" I was so scared that the word fear doesn't describe well what I felt. I was not prepared at all...

Hm, I've heard ppl say this, but it wasn't my experience, of the non-experience. Hehe.

But, there was no one home during. It wasn't until "after" that thought came back and said, "whhaatttt?".

[jbram2002]

@Mikael89 That point of view makes sense, but I caution you to separate the ideas of religion and faith. They are two very different qualities. Religion is restricting while faith is freeing.

[Shin]

5 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

I hid my post 

I don't know if non-duality or Christianity or something else is the Truth. To me, non-duality is just a belief, just like any religion. So I treat non-duality, religion, materialism, and everything else with equal respect.

I don't know what the fuck Reality is.

It is a belief for sure.

But a belief can be true or not, if you experience what the belief points towards.

Directly,
For yourself,
Now.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Shin

[abrakamowse]

6 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

Hm, I've heard ppl say this, but it wasn't my experience, of the non-experience. Hehe.

But, there was no one home during. It wasn't until "after" that thought came back and said, "whhaatttt?".

Yeah, everyone is different. In my case I was so wrong about everything that I needed a shock to bring me back to truth.  

[Ananta]

@abrakamowse Oh, I never thought about it like that. ?

[abrakamowse]

13 minutes ago, Anna1 said:

@abrakamowse Oh, I never thought about it like that. ?

I have to post that in my journal. My problem was that I was so attached to the materialist paradigm and about having an "independent" soul. The idea of separation was too strong, and still is... and I think is what is blocking me now. But, that's for another thread. Lol...

Long story.

Thanks @Anna1 for listening (or reading :-P )

[Shin]

4 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Religious people often feel free.

Religious people have lots of faith.

There's plenty of religious people who experience God and other stuff which their belief points towards.

That's what they says,

You didn't have the experience for yourself, so it's just a hearsay for you.

[jbram2002]

The funny thing about faith is that you can have it in a lot of different things. You can have faith in a person. Or in God. Or in science. Or in yourself. Or in your beliefs. I find that most people have faith in something, or they tend to be completely goalless and lost.

[Shin]

Just now, Mikael89 said:

Yes, and that's what you non-dualists say too.

Exactly,

But we also tell you it's exactly that,
A story.

The only way for you to know if it's true is to do the practice,
And find out if it is actually true.
 

[abrakamowse]

In reality we all have our beliefs and stuff. Because what "IS" can't be named. We can put a name to it, but it will be always a representation an idea, a belief. I listened some time ago to a teacher in youtube, his name is Alon Geva. He said that there are thoughts that are closer to the source.

Those thoughts can bring liberation, and there are thoughts that are not so close, those are the thoughts that make us not to recognize our true nature. But everything we can do is think about what is. We will never grasp what is with our intellect.

Edited May 14, 2019 by abrakamowse

[Shin]

8 minutes ago, Mikael89 said:

Yes, I'm doing it. It just sucks to practice something your whole life just because of a belief, and probably never even get to the goal (enlightenment).

If you do meditate, then you will go from the belief that you are the thoughts to experience for real the thing that perceive them without judging them.

That's already a step to confirm what most spiritual teachings says is true, it's one of their main and first teaching.
And it's not hard, and it's not something amazing, it's the most natural thing in the world.

For the rest, you will have enough faith at that point.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Shin

[Shin]

Just now, Mikael89 said:

Btw, I have experienced stuff, but since those things haven't been nice and blissful I must ignore those experiences, how convenient to filter out some experiences and only accept those experiences which is in line with the belief about non-duality.

Those experiences are perfectly in line,
They aren't told often because that would discourage and freak out too many people.

They are only told when it is already too late for the ego to go back,
And when it seeks to understand why he's suddenly all fucked up.

 

[Ananta]

1 hour ago, abrakamowse said:

Thanks @Anna1 for listening (or reading :-P )

My pleasure, anytime 

[Hellspeed]

How do you do that in practice?