How long is it going to take before religion is gone?

[now is forever]

5 minutes ago, Andreas said:

Nope. Rationality is not a cause, principle or an activity. It is also not something being pursued with zeal or conscientious devotion. 

Attempting to stigmatize me to appear morally or intellectually superior will not make me take you seriously. 

well i also don’t take you seriously. if it’s that what makes you rational.

ask yourself: why am i so defensive? why do i try to victimize myself?

i never stigmatized you, and if so i did exactly the same with myself. why are you thinking rationality makes you superior to religious people?

Edited April 19, 2019 by now is forever

[Andreas]

21 minutes ago, now is forever said:

well i also don’t take you seriously. if it’s that what makes you rational.

ask yourself: why am i so defensive? why do i try to victimize myself?

i never stigmatized you, and if so i did exactly the same with myself. why are you thinking rationality makes you superior to religious people?

You clearly do when you become emotionally invested. You not taking me seriously does not make me rational. I am not being defensive. You are attempting to stigmatize me by trying to compare me to a shitting horse. No, you did not do the same thing to yourself. 

Your post over displays stigmatization. "Ask yourself: why am i so defensive? Why do i try to victimise myself?" is stigmatization because you are indirectly suggesting that I am being defensive and try to victimize myself. Just pointing out the facts and cutting through bullshit does not make me defensive. Rationality does not make me superior to religious people. But rationality is according to Spiral Dynamics more developed, which is why I title my thread with what I did. 

Edited April 19, 2019 by Andreas

[Davo124]

@Andreas All wars happen because of the deeply-held disagreement to the following statement: There is nothing I am not.

The psychology of a man that wants another man to die for any reason, religious or not, is extremely backwards, silly, and contrary to the survival of the tribe. 

It's like if I hated my lungs or the bacteria in my gut- it's repulsively silly to those who understand that although our body parts are weird, slimy and confusing: THEY ARE US. 

I know that you're confused by religion and all the 'bad stuff' in the world, but from thinking deeply about it all, you're going to come to the conclusion that 'good and bad' are just illusions. Truth is not a democracy, so it doesn't matter if you're surrounded by people who agree with your hatred.

During deep contemplation, you'll think anthropologically about you're life, and realise that you're idea of 'good' is just half of a piece of software (mind) for the hardware (body) that makes some random ape on some random planet make decisions which maximise it's survival and abilityto pass it's DNA on to the next generation. The other half of the software is 'labelling stuff bad' component, which makes you avoid, discard, or destroy all that you label 'bad'.

You're seriously just a dumb monkey that's being controlled by an extremely intelligent, invisible, psychological mechanism that you're not aware of. Wake the fuck up. 

All of us here at Actualized.org are becoming increasingly aware of this mechanism (the survival software), we're soaking our minds in the knowledge of this software and we're learning how it works. As if we're all computer nerds, studying the software of some recently-discovered robots from an ancient robot archaeological site... So when we see you being completely controlled by this mechanism, we see a man that is powered by psychology that is not even aware of itself. Because of this you're causing destruction to yourself and the rest of the tribe.

Your negative attitude would have had you removed from a successful tribe 50,000 years ago. Which is the ancient instinct responsible for the light frustration or anger that some of us are feeling when we're reading what you've written. We want to remove your counterproductive/countersurvival attitude so that it does not affect the rest of the tribe. The alphas in the ancient tribes would have solved this by deciding as a group to remove your cancerous attitude by performing an ambush on you. Preferably quick and easy- creep up behind you with a big rock while you're out foraging and BAM!!! You're gone. The other way they'd remove your attitude -> negativity -> suffering, would have been to provide you with the right information for you to fix the problem for yourself. The tribe leaders would arrange a meeting with you, probably in a hut, in which they'd bestow upon you allllll the right knowledge they've gained over the years which you'd need to overcome your mental illness. Many tribes needed the extra pair of hands back then, so it was sometimes more effective to update your software rather than deleting you altogether.

In the forest clearing of Actualized.org, Mr Gura is the wise man who has lovingly decided to spare all who are considered to be burdens to any tribe because of how their suffering affects their behaviour and attitude- only those that are willing to listen, by creating free video content of the necessary information. So for God's sake open ya mind up a bit will ya????

Respect his decision, my friend...

Here is the information.

 

I'm gonna be releasing Instagram video content about all of this stuff soon, follow me before so you're ready- @drey_insta

[now is forever]

8 hours ago, Andreas said:

You clearly do when you become emotionally invested. You not taking me seriously does not make me rational. I am not being defensive. You are attempting to stigmatize me by trying to compare me to a shitting horse. No, you did not do the same thing to yourself. 

Your post over displays stigmatization. "Ask yourself: why am i so defensive? Why do i try to victimise myself?" is stigmatization because you are indirectly suggesting that I am being defensive and try to victimize myself. Just pointing out the facts and cutting through bullshit does not make me defensive. Rationality does not make me superior to religious people. But rationality is according to Spiral Dynamics more developed, which is why I title my thread with what I did. 

well then have a look at turquoise again. and realize this is not your journal... so it is not YOUR thread, this is a very open community, but the attempt to controll a conversation to a direction of your preferred outcome is not open - you asked a question, there was conversation and as long as people don’t hurt the rules... this thread belongs not to any i. you can‘t own a conversation.

who is sitting in a house made of glass should not throw with stones.

Edited April 20, 2019 by now is forever

[Leo Gura]

Still debating how long till horses stop shitting?

Lol

What a clever way to avoid spiritual work.

[Truth Addict]

@Andreas

Do you want to have a positive impact on the real world?

Or do you want to be right and win the debate?

Or do you merely want to debate and keep it going forever?

I don't feel that this thread is helping anyone, I know that you want to help others, but perhaps you can find better ways to have this impact.

We want to help you find those ways.

Edited April 20, 2019 by Truth Addict

[Andreas]

@Truth Addict

Well as I said in my OP, I don’t like irrationality/bullshit. It frustrates me. I like to stop it and especially the arrogant ones. At some point though, bullshit just gets too spectacular to be done anything about. That is also frustrating. Same thing with dogmatic religion. 

[Rilles]

12 minutes ago, Andreas said:

@Truth Addict

Well as I said in my OP, I don’t like irrationality/bullshit. It frustrates me. I like to stop it and especially the arrogant ones. At some point though, bullshit just gets too spectacular to be done anything about. That is also frustrating. Same thing with dogmatic religion. 

Its a personal emotional problem. Shadow work. Dood

[Andreas]

@Rilles

Probably. Doesn't make bullshit go away though. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Andreas

[Rilles]

4 minutes ago, Andreas said:

@Rilles

Probably. Doesn't make bullshit go away though. 

The bullshit will be there but you wont care. Happiness. Isnt that what you ultimately want?

Or... you could try to to root out all irrationality... but I bet that would make you suffer alot and I dont think you would be happy even if you succeded with that. 

Edited April 20, 2019 by Rilles

[Andreas]

3 hours ago, now is forever said:

well then have a look at turquoise again. and realize this is not your journal... so it is not YOUR thread, this is a very open community, but the attempt to controll a conversation to a direction of your preferred outcome is not open - you asked a question, there was conversation and as long as people don’t hurt the rules... this thread belongs not to any i. you can‘t own a conversation.

who is sitting in a house made of glass should not throw with stones.

Asking people to stay on topic is not an attempt to control someone. If you like to discuss anything else than religion then simply don't discuss it in this thread. Create a new one with a new title, that's why we have them. Bringing non-duality into an argument about what should be discussed is kind of ridiculous. 

[Truth Addict]

@Andreas

This is so great to hear.

We all don't like irrationality/bullshit, and we all want to stop it.

Some of the best ways around that issue, I personally find helpful, are meditation, mindfulness, and self-awareness (very great for deconstructing self-delusions).

And we also have very great and practical model that you're familiar with, which is Spiral Dynamics.

Spiral Dynamics is aiming to change the world by raising awareness of the individual and the collective.

I think you're doing great, and that you are at very high levels of Green.

Yet, it's not the end of the line, there are always more that we can all learn.

I suggest you focus more attention on transcending Green, while reading books and studying more about psychology and its dynamics in both individuals and communities.

Keep in mind that as you grow more and move up the Spiral you include instead of excluding.

That of course does not mean that you want others to stay irrational, that means that you develop a capacity for understanding them and having compassion for them instead of hatred.

I know that you already have compassion for everyone, I read through your whole discussion.

But what I think is missing, is a true application of your love to everyone, and that is how the ego-mind plays its tricks on us.

A terrorist did not have a choice whether to become a terrorist or not, as we observe from higer perspective, they were indoctrinated from birth.

And we can always go one step further, who indoctrinated them in the first place but people who were also indoctrinated from birth?

And that can go on forever.

What you want and what we all want is to break that chain, but see, by doing the same thing we dislike, we only create more of it, for we are overlooking the root issue, which is lack of awareness, not ideology really, and not religion really.

Human beings are ideological creatures, our lives are highly dependent on ideas, right?

I don't think we can resolve ideology with another ideology.

But I know that we can go meta on ideology, and observe it from higher, yet more compassionate, perspectives.

So, to conclude, what I think is needed is the following:

• Studying more about Yellow.
• Focusing on one's self more, and on others less.
• Mindfulness and self-inquiry.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts, I now see the world in a new light, and I'm full of hope that with people like yourself we're moving towards more peaceful places.

❤️

Edited April 20, 2019 by Truth Addict

[now is forever]

13 minutes ago, Andreas said:

Asking people to stay on topic is not an attempt to control someone. If you like to discuss anything else than religion then simply don't discuss it in this thread. Create a new one with a new title, that's why we have them. Bringing non-duality into an argument about what should be discussed is kind of ridiculous. 

yeah but i was discussing religion. you don’t see that. i also triggered you because you hide in a belief system. i‘m an atheist, well i‘m a pantheist. i am not a fan of religion or dogma but i‘m also not a fan of science or rationalism as an empty shell, selfrefering in a closed mathematical system, treated like a religion. if you would give up what you think is rationality, you wouldn’t need to protect yourself so much anymore. it’s your fear of loosing control that lets you keep up the facade. and you like to hide behind it trying to make your opponent shut up. 

but that‘s not how it works. religion will not just vanish as science will not just vanish - it might change like it always changed in its practice but it won’t vanish - you need to accept that.

Edited April 20, 2019 by now is forever

[Andreas]

3 minutes ago, now is forever said:

yeah but i was discussing religion. you don’t see that.

You were not. By definition. Create your own thread if you want to discuss rationalism. 

 

5 minutes ago, now is forever said:

 i also triggered you because you hide in a belief system. 

Stop making assumptions about me. You do not know me. Absolutely false. 

 

8 minutes ago, now is forever said:

if you would give up what you think is rationality, you wouldn’t need to protect yourself so much anymore. it’s your fear of loosing control that lets you keep up the facade. and you like to hide behind it trying to make your opponent shut up. 

Stop making assumptions about me. This is not true and most likely just a projection. You do not know me and this is absolutely false. 

[now is forever]

@Andreas do i need to use the word horse to discuss a horse? do i need to say that i can see wooden horses even if they are not made of wood? for it being a discussion about horses. a wooden horse doesn’t shit.

[Andreas]

1 minute ago, now is forever said:

@Andreas do i need to use the word horse to discuss a horse? do i need to say that i can see wooden horses even if they are not made of wood? for it being a discussion about horses. a wooden horse doesn’t shit.

I am neither a horse or a wooden horse. Yes a wooden horse doesn't shit. You are making untrue assumptions about me and I pointed that out. As far as I can tell it doesn't have anything to do with a wooden horse that does not shit. 

[now is forever]

6 minutes ago, Andreas said:

I am neither a horse or a wooden horse. Yes a wooden horse doesn't shit. You are making untrue assumptions about me and I pointed that out. As far as I can tell it doesn't have anything to do with a wooden horse that does not shit. 

yeah but you show it in every single post, how you are. you are not invisible. rationality happens in your mind but you don’t act rational because, you are not a rational being. 

you have emotions.

and a lot of them are about protection, hiding, and wooden horses that shit.

Edited April 20, 2019 by now is forever

[Truth Addict]

@Andreas

I'm waiting for your response.

Agreeing with me? No?

If not, please let me know where I went wrong.

[Andreas]

Just now, now is forever said:

yeah but you show it in every single post, how you are. you are not invisible. rationality happens in your mind but you don’t act rational because, you are not a rational being. 

you have emotions.

Im  pointing out bullshit, yes. Doesn't mean im an irrational, shitting wooden horse. 

[Andreas]

2 minutes ago, Truth Addict said:

@Andreas

I'm waiting for your response.

Agreeing with me? No?

If not, please let me know where I went wrong.

Sorry about that! Didn't see it. I need to take a walk and clear my head then I am going to respond.