How long is it going to take before religion is gone?

[Andreas]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

How ironic! You are fooling yourself out of a spiritual life RIGHT NOW with this judgment.

I think you get my point though. Im at an earlier stage of my development and need to work on some issues related to abuse. Im going to pursue this spiritual path when im emotionally healthy and financially independent. 

Edited April 18, 2019 by Andreas

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Andreas said:

I think you get my point though

I don't think you get my point though

If you can't let go of your ego, why are you upset that other people cannot let go of theirs? They are just doing what you're doing. And thus religion persists. So you are literally the very source of the evil you decry.

[Forestluv]

11 minutes ago, Andreas said:

I feel bad for the children, the adults who waste their energy and time, the victims of war caused by it and all the people who get fooled out of a spiritual, fullfiling life. 

In your op, you said you are upset with religious people because they are arrogant, stigmatize and brainwash others. Now you are saying you are upset about the victims. 

Those people you seem to hate have also been indoctrinated, brainwashed and abused. They are living out their own childhood indoctrination. When do you lose compassion for them? On their 18th birthday?

[DrewNows]

@Andreasto understand you will have to stop pointing the finger and figure out your own beliefs regarding religion, and why it's just as incorrect. Do check out some STREET EPISTEMOLOGY interview VIDEOS on youtube as it might be helpful for you on an emotional level to see where people are coming from in their religious beliefs 

[Andreas]

3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I don't think you get my point though

If you can't let go of your ego, why are you upset that other people cannot let go of theirs? They are just doing what you're doing. And thus religion persists. So you are literally the very source of the evil you decry.

I question my beliefs, and I do get your point. Doesn’t make my point wrong. You can be opposed to terrorism because it is unethical. And fight to stop it. Then you can of course let go but it doesn’t change the fact that the world would be a better place without it. 

[Andreas]

1 minute ago, Serotoninluv said:

In your op, you said you are upset with religious people because they are arrogant, stigmatize and brainwash others. Now you are saying you are upset about the victims. 

Same thing. I get upset about people trying to belittle other people with irrational beliefs. I also get upset at people abusing others. As I wrote in my OP. Brainwashing. 

3 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Those people you seem to hate have also been indoctrinated, brainwashed and abused. They are living out their own childhood indoctrination. When do you lose compassion for them? On their 18th birthday?

True, but the reason they keep holding on is fundamentally because of ego. I get mad at them for trying to brainwash people like a cult. Like saying you go to hell for having sex before marriage probably ruined a couple milion relationships at this point. No, I don’t consider peoples age when contemplating ethics.

[Forestluv]

@DrewNows Yes Anthony. I haven’t watched his stuff in the last couple of years. I watched a couple of his workshop videos. At that time he was a self described atheist trying to wake up irrational religious followers. He had an agenda to bring them ip to irrational thinking. Essentially from Blue stage yo Orange stage. He was a bit sneaky about it, since he didn’t tell this intention to his interviewees. Yet I thought he was non-confrontational and respectful. I think he is generally a good advocate to help people evolve Blue to Orange. The world needs people like that. I can’t do it anymore, since I no longer identify with rationalism. 

[Forestluv]

11 minutes ago, Andreas said:

True, but the reason they keep holding on is fundamentally because of ego. I get mad at them for trying to brainwash people like a cult. Like saying you go to hell for having sex before marriage probably ruined a couple milion relationships at this point. No, I don’t consider peoples age when contemplating ethics.

My age question was not about ethics.

You say you feel compassion for children that are indoctrinated and abused, yet seem to hate those same abused children when they are adults. When does your compassion for indoctrinated abused children end?

[kieranperez]

16 minutes ago, Andreas said:

I question my beliefs, and I do get your point. Doesn’t make my point wrong. You can be opposed to terrorism because it is unethical. And fight to stop it. Then you can of course let go but it doesn’t change the fact that the world would be a better place without it. 

Whatever you resist persists. 

How has that whole fighting for world order gone so far?

The world is PERFECT as it is whether and CANNOT be other than what it is right now regardless of whether or joy you and/or the majority of the human race whom are stuck in their mayopia care to agree with that truth or not. 

It may suit your own imaginary ideals but those are nonetheless your own imaginary ideals. 

What your calling “ethical” are a set of criteria that are based off of your own needs and values... in othe words, your ego. They are arbitrary and are relative and it would be useful if you sat down and contemplated what “ethics” are, how they came into existence, how they came to pass, and what was the purpose for that relative distinction that brought it into being to begin with.

I don’t like terrorist attacks as much as the next guy but that doesn’t diminish the truth of how that is part of the greater cosmic perfection. 

You can “oppose” the behavior because that behavior is driven off of lower consciousness and living in falsehood (with some partial truth) and “combat” it with that in mind.

Im not saying stop all war and pursue blind peace on earth. 

[Andreas]

8 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

My age question was not about ethics.

You say you feel compassion for children that are indoctrinated and abused, yet seem to hate those same abused children when they are adults. When does your compassion for indoctrinated abused children end?

You can be hit as a child and that’s sad. Doesn’t give you the right to hit your own children when you grow up. 

[kieranperez]

Just now, Andreas said:

You can be hit as a child and that’s sad. Doesn’t give you the right to hit your own children when you grow up. 

You are free to do whatever you want. If you want to act unconsciously, you can because you already do (I don’t mean you specifically per say). The sooner you see the truth in that the sooner you’ll actually be able to stop that behavior and you won’t need some stupid rule to not hit your children which just suppresses that desire more and more which will eventually a greater uproar in that area and/or others. Truly moral and ethical people don’t need a stupid rule not to hit their kids the same way a healthy person doesn’t need a rule to not smoke cigarettes. 

[Forestluv]

Just now, Andreas said:

You can be hit as a child and that’s sad. Doesn’t give you the right to hit your own children when you grow up. 

Wait a second, I’m confused now. You previously said you felt bad for children that are abused. Now you are saying a child being abused is “sad”. Those are two different things. 

Do you feel bad and have compassion for abused children or do you merely think child abuse is “sad”. 

[Andreas]

1 minute ago, kieranperez said:

Whatever you resist persists. 

How has that whole fighting for world order gone so far?

The world is PERFECT as it is whether and CANNOT be other than what it is right now regardless of whether or joy you and/or the majority of the human race whom are stuck in their mayopia care to agree with that truth or not. 

It may suit your own imaginary ideals but those are nonetheless your own imaginary ideals. 

What your calling “ethical” are a set of criteria that are based off of your own needs and values... in othe words, your ego. They are arbitrary and are relative and it would be useful if you sat down and contemplated what “ethics” are, how they came into existence, how they came to pass, and what was the purpose for that relative distinction that brought it into being to begin with.

I don’t like terrorist attacks as much as the next guy but that doesn’t diminish the truth of how that is part of the greater cosmic perfection. 

You can “oppose” the behavior because that behavior is driven off of lower consciousness and living in falsehood (with some partial truth) and “combat” it with that in mind.

Im not saying stop all war and pursue blind peace on earth. 

Yeah why drink water, it’s just your ego trying to survive. Don’t be so egotistical. If everyone held this ideology the world ends pretty fast. Why punish criminals? It’s just for your own survical we should just let them all out and let them do whatever they want. Combating devilery and ego is not what should be stigmatized here. 

[Andreas]

 

2 minutes ago, kieranperez said:

You are free to do whatever you want. If you want to act unconsciously, you can because you already do (I don’t mean you specifically per say). The sooner you see the truth in that the sooner you’ll actually be able to stop that behavior and you won’t need some stupid rule to not hit your children which just suppresses that desire more and more which will eventually a greater uproar in that area and/or others. Truly moral and ethical people don’t need a stupid rule not to hit their kids the same way a healthy person doesn’t need a rule to not smoke cigarettes. 

That’s too idealistic. There are always people born into this world starting from beige. If they don’t have any laws can basicly create hell on earth in about 2 weeks. 

[DrewNows]

1 minute ago, Andreas said:

 

That’s too idealistic. There are always people born into this world starting from beige. If they don’t have any laws can basicly create hell on earth in about 2 weeks. 

And here rises the need for religions

[Andreas]

4 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

Wait a second, I’m confused now. You previously said you felt bad for children that are abused. Now you are saying a child being abused is “sad”. Those are two different things. 

Do you feel bad and have compassion for abused children or do you merely think child abuse is “sad”. 

I feel compassion for abused children and child abuse is sad. Those are the same. 

My point is if you are abused as a kid you don’t have the right to abuse your own kids when you start a family. 

[Andreas]

2 minutes ago, DrewNows said:

And here rises the need for religions

No. Here rises the need for a healthy level of blue. We need laws. Not mindcontrol. 

[Nahm]

@Andreas You don’t have to mentally reconcile something to let it go. By all means, help someone. But overthinking & stressing vs action, is unproductive and nonsensical. No? Otherwise, it’s just philosophy and ideology. Not to mention, wasting time & energy.

[Forestluv]

12 minutes ago, Andreas said:

I feel compassion for abused children and child abuse is sad. 

Ok. Imagine a child has been abused. He has been traumatized. His brain and body have been conditioned in terrible ways. The kid is suffering terribly. We now know that these physiological changes persist into adulthood. Their brains are rewired.

You say you have compassion for this abused child. You seem to be saying your compassion is conditional. In what ways can this traumatized child behave that is acceptable to you so you will maintain your compassion for him?  What are your compassion “deal-breakers”?

For example, if the traumatized person acted out their inner hell by cutting themself, would you still have compassion for them?  What if they had a PTSD traumatic episode and screamed profanities at someone? Would you still have compassion for them? 

What does a traumatized person need to do to go from your compassion list to your shit list?

[kieranperez]

@Andreas whose the one coming up with all this stuff?

There are no moral obligations as far as reality is concerned. Yeah we need to create rules because that’s what’s entailed as far as having a society goes but creating those consciously, understanding that there’s nothing inherent in those laws and rules will be far more effective because the we can change them (not to suggest that that’s some simple snap of the fingers process) rather than be rigid and dogmatic over our rules. Blue’s moralization is mind control. It’s stunts the person’s ability to think for themselves. 

There’s nothing true (entirely) about ‘this thing here is inherently and existentially sad’. I’m not defending people who beat their kids. That happened to my mom and yeah the psychological trauma that can leave on a person can be enormous but that doesn’t discount the fact of the matter. 

Rigid rules stunt without questioning stunts growth. Greater and more accepting consciousness of what’s true leads to greater and greater growth because it’s based off of what’s true. 

Don’t like that? Good. That’s where you need to work. 

And to add on to what @Serotoninluv is saying on your conditional compassion for abused children... do you not see that your still making this rigid distinction of “adult” and “child”? What are most adults but mere children acting out a more calcified version of their inner child and finding all sorts of ways to act out and repress that inner child from ever coming to surface and into their awareness. Now you have this rigid rule between adult and child where what the child has gone through is all sad and you pity him but then his needs were never met and now you throw on this additional moralization that causes more acting out and suppression of what’s really there. Or another way of putting it, suppressing what’s really true for them in their experience underneath all the shit they’ve been conditioned with. 

Edited April 19, 2019 by kieranperez