Focusing on breath vs. completely letting go of control

[Farnaby]

Hi!

I'm interested in knowing what you think is the best approach to meditation, especially for beginners. Do you think it's better to pay attention to your breath and try to belly-breathe or is it better just to sit and do Leo's "Do Nothing" technique and just observe everything that arises in your awareness. 

The way I understand it, meditation is about accepting the present moment as it is. Wouldn't breath control go against this? Also, what do you suggest doing with monkey mind chatter? Just let it be and observe it in order to get to know how our mind works or try to come back to your breathing?

Thank you very much!

[WelcometoReality]

@Farnaby Doing nothing while letting everything arise and pass works great. You don't have to do anything about the mind chatter. It's just noise. Trying to quiet it will only create more noise so the best is to just let it be.

A suggestion is trying to keep that state after tye meditation stops to let it spill over to your life off the cushion.

[Farnaby]

2 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

@Farnaby Doing nothing while letting everything arise and pass works great. You don't have to do anything about the mind chatter. It's just noise. Trying to quiet it will only create more noise so the best is to just let it be.

A suggestion is trying to keep that state after tye meditation stops to let it spill over to your life off the cushion.

Thank you for your answer. I've found what you say to be true in my own experience. Whenever I try to control something, be it my breathing or anything else, I feel like I'm loosing awareness of the present moment. 

However, I've seen multiple guides and even Leo insisting on the importance of noticing when you're getting lost in mind chatter and bringing your attentiton back to your breath. I find this is helpful, but only if I lost awareness of how my mind is chattering. What do you think about this? Isn't it contrary to the principle of completely letting go?

I'm also trying what you suggested, trying to be as present as I can during everyday activities

 

[Dumb Enlightened]

4 hours ago, Farnaby said:

Hi!

I'm interested in knowing what you think is the best approach to meditation, especially for beginners. Do you think it's better to pay attention to your breath and try to belly-breathe or is it better just to sit and do Leo's "Do Nothing" technique and just observe everything that arises in your awareness. 

The way I understand it, meditation is about accepting the present moment as it is. Wouldn't breath control go against this? Also, what do you suggest doing with monkey mind chatter? Just let it be and observe it in order to get to know how our mind works or try to come back to your breathing?

Thank you very much!

Do nothing meditation, Leo has a video about it, and also do this

 

[Consilience]

For the first 10 months or so of meditating 1 hour a day, everyday, I would spend half of the hour watching the breath saying a mantra, and the other half doing the do nothing technique. 

 

The mantra (breath watching) was very effective at quieting my monkey mind and building the endurance to meditate for long periods of time. There’s also something intrinsically rewarding about hitting an extremely focused states of consciousness like that. Very blissful. Now, however, I only really do nothing when I meditate. My mind is generally somewhat quiet and I typically get into very present, focused states from doing nothing. And it is ultimately where consciousness work leads

[Dumb Enlightened]

I remenbred another kind of meditation that I've tried

It is some kind of 3th eye meditation,

[Truth Addict]

@Farnaby

I personally have learned a lot about myself practising meditation while walking, with or without listening to music.

I'd walk for 2 or more hours continuously, sometimes it can strech to 5 hours, it depends on how 'monkey' your mind is.

Meditation is basically observation of the present moment.

Acceptance is a whole other practice, but you can certainly combine both together.

It does not matter the method, I suggest that you try many methods, and find out the best one for you.

How do you know which one is better?

Three very important questions:

1) How much does it make you learn about yourself?

2) How calm and peaceful do you feel right afterwards?

3) How much do you feel connected with the present moment and disconnected from the illusion of past and future right afterwards?

[Nahm]

@Farnaby Perfectly at peace while you sleep.  Same situation all day. Unless thinking says otherwise and is believed & identified with. 

What is your issue with that? 

Now you know which practice to do. 

If any. 

[Farnaby]

On 17/4/2019 at 4:37 PM, Dumb Enlightened said:

Do nothing meditation, Leo has a video about it, and also do this

 

Thank you! Yes, I tried the "Do Nothing" meditation and found it very useful. 

On 17/4/2019 at 5:06 PM, Consilience said:

For the first 10 months or so of meditating 1 hour a day, everyday, I would spend half of the hour watching the breath saying a mantra, and the other half doing the do nothing technique. 

 

The mantra (breath watching) was very effective at quieting my monkey mind and building the endurance to meditate for long periods of time. There’s also something intrinsically rewarding about hitting an extremely focused states of consciousness like that. Very blissful. Now, however, I only really do nothing when I meditate. My mind is generally somewhat quiet and I typically get into very present, focused states from doing nothing. And it is ultimately where consciousness work leads

Thank you! I found this to be true IME too. Watching my breath whenever my mind drifts too far away seems useful to maintain the presence, but only if done gently, without trying to control how I'm breathing. 

On 17/4/2019 at 5:21 PM, Dumb Enlightened said:

I remenbred another kind of meditation that I've tried

It is some kind of 3th eye meditation,

Thanks, I'll have a look at the video  

23 hours ago, Truth Addict said:

@Farnaby

I personally have learned a lot about myself practising meditation while walking, with or without listening to music.

I'd walk for 2 or more hours continuously, sometimes it can strech to 5 hours, it depends on how 'monkey' your mind is.

Meditation is basically observation of the present moment.

Acceptance is a whole other practice, but you can certainly combine both together.

It does not matter the method, I suggest that you try many methods, and find out the best one for you.

How do you know which one is better?

Three very important questions:

1) How much does it make you learn about yourself?

2) How calm and peaceful do you feel right afterwards?

3) How much do you feel connected with the present moment and disconnected from the illusion of past and future right afterwards?

Yes you're right, acceptance is probably not the right word, although observation of the present moment helps with letting go and accepting. 

Regarding your questions: 

1) Different ways of meditating deliver a different experience so I don't really know if one helps me learn more about myself than another. I found the "Do Nothing" technique very useful, as well as practicing mindfulness during everyday activities. 

2) Generally I feel pretty calm and peaceful especially with mindfulness. However, whenever I start meditating, there's moments of nervousness but I don't find it too difficult to tolerate it and it usually passes after a couple of minutes. 

3) I have a pretty hyperactive monkey mind lol. This means that I feel connected with the present moment after meditation, but I feel like I'm always having to make an effort not to go back into monkey mind mode. Lately I've found it more and more easy to connect with the present moment.

Do you think thoughts should be treated as part of the present moment or are they interfering with the ability to stay present?

23 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Farnaby Perfectly at peace while you sleep.  Same situation all day. Unless thinking says otherwise and is believed & identified with. 

What is your issue with that? 

Now you know which practice to do. 

If any. 

I guess in the end you don't need a formal and structured technique/practice in order to meditate, although I think it can be useful in the beginning. I find it easy to meditate when doing simple activities like walking, eating, showering, etc., but not when playing videogames for example. Do you think you can reach a meditative state with those kind of very intense and fast paced activities?

Thanks everyone for your input  

[Truth Addict]

@Farnaby

If thinking is what it is, then thinking is what it is.

What helped me the most is prolonged meditation sessions, 4-5 hours, sometimes twice a day.

[Nahm]

@Farnaby Agreed ??

And yes, the “meditative state”,  is our true nature. So a point comes when it’s realized the overthinking was added to the existence / Peace.  Video games are for one more ‘added’ and for another they are not.  Self honesty is the Way. 

[Aaron p]

On 4/17/2019 at 10:51 AM, Farnaby said:

Hi!

I'm interested in knowing what you think is the best approach to meditation, especially for beginners. Do you think it's better to pay attention to your breath and try to belly-breathe or is it better just to sit and do Leo's "Do Nothing" technique and just observe everything that arises in your awareness. 

The way I understand it, meditation is about accepting the present moment as it is. Wouldn't breath control go against this? Also, what do you suggest doing with monkey mind chatter? Just let it be and observe it in order to get to know how our mind works or try to come back to your breathing?

Thank you very much!

Remember, your one and only objective is to find yourself. (If your looking for enlightenment, which you are).

There is no teaching, there is no student, there is no master...just find yourself. In spirituality the problem isint too little teaching, the problem is too much teaching. It will extremely hard for you focus solely on finding yourself. Your mind will find it irresistible to dip into more and more "spiritual" teaching. You will more than likely fail at this quickly. But try, really try to remember that the only thing you are trying to do is find yourself. 

I would say 2 main rules for spirituality;

1. Only look for yourself and that's it.

2. Find powerful techniques, perfect them, trust them. The techniques themselves unfold the truth. 

If you add to this at all, you are only getting in your own way and slowing down your enlightenment process. Also a sub rule; do not believe anything...*ESPECIALLY* spiritual teachers like leo and other enlightened people. Take what they say and use it to find yourself in your own direct experience.

Listen to moojibaba on YouTube, he focuses very well on finding the self. 

Also, some techniques that God recommended to me were kryia yoga, self enquiry, phychdelic retreats, and a new technique I've felt god teaching me directly...it's an experiential technique that I call "following the glow" because that's all I can say to describe it. I find that I just feel led to do certain things or "sink deeper into the glow of what I know is God trying to show me something" and a you do is let go and allow your consciousness to free-float into revelations, insights, deepenings etc. 

And one final point I want to say, what you have to keep in mind is that "you" are always here, experiencing reality directly. The deepest, most fundamental thing that is "you" cannot come and go...logically. a child can see this. So think...what is the one essential "thing" about your existence that cannot be removed? Your physical heart? Nope. That can be replaced while "you" remain. Lungs? You would still be here if they were replaced. Not you. Emotions? Can rise and fall like the wind changes directions. What exactly are you referring to when you say the word "i" 

Keep practising.

You have *nothing* to lose

[Nahm]

@Aaron p You’ve come such a long way. Very happy for you. ??

@Farnaby I agree with Aaron. Whatever get one to sit quietly and relax, and ultimately it’s all pointing to self inquiry. If emotions get a little overwhelming, write on paper about how you’re feeling, draw pictures, etc. Let em out. I like practice of writing a story about a character who is you, experiencing, and write about how they’re feeling. Internally, it can be chaotic & overwhelming. From writing it out, and also reading, understanding deepens. With deeper understanding of the emotions, releases happen, and overthinking lessons more and more. 

[outlandish]

On 4/17/2019 at 2:51 AM, Farnaby said:

Hi!

I'm interested in knowing what you think is the best approach to meditation, especially for beginners. Do you think it's better to pay attention to your breath and try to belly-breathe or is it better just to sit and do Leo's "Do Nothing" technique and just observe everything that arises in your awareness. 

The way I understand it, meditation is about accepting the present moment as it is. Wouldn't breath control go against this? Also, what do you suggest doing with monkey mind chatter? Just let it be and observe it in order to get to know how our mind works or try to come back to your breathing?

Thank you very much!

@Farnaby I had the exact question for my meditation teacher  I'll relay his answer, intertwined with my own understanding and interpretation.

Both are equally important, so it's good to focus on one, and then the other when you are practicing. Ultimately you'll bring them together and walk this balancing act of doing one and then the other almost simultaneously - focus vs. openness, keeping perfect balance in the center.

You can't have authentic deep experience when your mental strongman is standing rigid over your thoughts, forcing you into focusing on your breath. On the other hand when you let your mind drift, you end up in monkey mind ville, or mushy dreamy land and start falling asleep, way off course from being present in your meditation.

Ideally you want to be completely still, effortlessly in the now. As you progress you'll get better at using the tools of focus and letting go to arrive in that stillness with lighter and lighter applications of these tools.

My teacher's recommendation was to focus on one aspect in one sit, and then on the other in the next sit. Or play it by ear and work on what you think needs the most sharpening.

I've heard people say it's better to focus on the breath by default, as strengthening this ability to concentrate usually requires the most work - vs. letting go, which is by nature not something you "work" to do. Vipassana meditation really seems to emphasize the focus/concentration side, and a lot of people seem to gravitate to that path.

It's kind of a yin/yang thing, appropriate considering Leo's most recent video.

 

 

[Aaron p]

@Farnaby i used to meditate while I was driving lol